Star Wars: The Last Jedi
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject:

Finally saw. I was excited to do so so that I could finally understand why there was so much venom and distaste for it. Given the amped up antagonism for it by some, I figured there must be some meat to that antagonism. But upon viewing, not so much. I was disappointed that those leveling such criticisms were grossly overreacting.

To me the film is what everyone who has been watching the evolution of the franchise should have anticipated. The bonus is that visually it is stunning in a way that none of the other episodes have been. It was a solidly entertaining and well done movie. The storytelling was there in a way that has always characterized the franchise, completely predictable every step of the way and yet still fun.

And by the way, attacking things like poor physics in a SciFi movie is completely fair. The most laughable part of the movie was this idea that massive spacecraft could come to an instant and jarring stop without the beings and equipment inside it slamming into each other and the walls of the craft. There may be no GRAVITY in space, but there is definitely inertia. Just laziness in the attempt to make something look cool. The craft could have just appeared out of nowhere (as they did) without the extra gag of having them to appear to skid into place like a cop car in an action movie - that was just foolish.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Finally saw. I was excited to do so so that I could finally understand why there was so much venom and distaste for it. Given the amped up antagonism for it by some, I figured there must be some meat to that antagonism. But upon viewing, not so much. I was disappointed that those leveling such criticisms were grossly overreacting.

To me the film is what everyone who has been watching the evolution of the franchise should have anticipated. The bonus is that visually it is stunning in a way that none of the other episodes have been. It was a solidly entertaining and well done movie. The storytelling was there in a way that has always characterized the franchise, completely predictable every step of the way and yet still fun.

And by the way, attacking things like poor physics in a SciFi movie is completely fair. The most laughable part of the movie was this idea that massive spacecraft could come to an instant and jarring stop without the beings and equipment inside it slamming into each other and the walls of the craft. There may be no GRAVITY in space, but there is definitely inertia. Just laziness in the attempt to make something look cool. The craft could have just appeared out of nowhere (as they did) without the extra gag of having them to appear to skid into place like a cop car in an action movie - that was just foolish.


Potentially explained by inertial dampeners (which exist in the blueprint books as a way of accounting for this, while today's science falls short of such a device, it is still at least remotely possible). However, using gravity in space to DROP bombs and in a most inefficient way (invented hyperdrives but not a remote or multiple controls for dropping bombs?) is just laughable.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Finally saw. I was excited to do so so that I could finally understand why there was so much venom and distaste for it. Given the amped up antagonism for it by some, I figured there must be some meat to that antagonism. But upon viewing, not so much. I was disappointed that those leveling such criticisms were grossly overreacting.

To me the film is what everyone who has been watching the evolution of the franchise should have anticipated. The bonus is that visually it is stunning in a way that none of the other episodes have been. It was a solidly entertaining and well done movie. The storytelling was there in a way that has always characterized the franchise, completely predictable every step of the way and yet still fun.

And by the way, attacking things like poor physics in a SciFi movie is completely fair. The most laughable part of the movie was this idea that massive spacecraft could come to an instant and jarring stop without the beings and equipment inside it slamming into each other and the walls of the craft. There may be no GRAVITY in space, but there is definitely inertia. Just laziness in the attempt to make something look cool. The craft could have just appeared out of nowhere (as they did) without the extra gag of having them to appear to skid into place like a cop car in an action movie - that was just foolish.


Potentially explained by inertial dampeners (which exist in the blueprint books as a way of accounting for this, while today's science falls short of such a device, it is still at least remotely possible). However, using gravity in space to DROP bombs and in a most inefficient way (invented hyperdrives but not a remote or multiple controls for dropping bombs?) is just laughable.


Regardless of hypothetical explanations, it looked downright silly and served no purpose. At least with the bombing scene, it simply tied in with the same kind of historical references to film that have existed since the original film. I mean there is a close up of Poe throwing a mid-20th century toggle switch which is a shot we've seen in a dozen WWII movies. Such legacy references are part of the character of the franchise, so at least they serve a purpose. The whole ship appearing out of nowhere and coming to an instant stop served no purpose and looked cheesy and foolish.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:44 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Finally saw. I was excited to do so so that I could finally understand why there was so much venom and distaste for it. Given the amped up antagonism for it by some, I figured there must be some meat to that antagonism. But upon viewing, not so much. I was disappointed that those leveling such criticisms were grossly overreacting.

To me the film is what everyone who has been watching the evolution of the franchise should have anticipated. The bonus is that visually it is stunning in a way that none of the other episodes have been. It was a solidly entertaining and well done movie. The storytelling was there in a way that has always characterized the franchise, completely predictable every step of the way and yet still fun.


My theory is that some people connect so personally to certain franchises that they take it as an affront when a show runner takes the franchise in a direction that is different from their personal vision. This is true of Star Trek and Doctor Who, also. Heck, you can go to some of the Doctor Who boards and find Brits criticizing each new version of the show in terms that are strikingly similar to what American posters say about the new Star Wars and Star Trek.

On the science point, I have no trouble suspending disbelief for any sci fi product that doesn’t pretend to be serious about the science. The single silliest device in the first two films, in my opinion, was the idea that you needed a map to Luke Skywalker and that the map had a crooked, winding path. What, are you traveling through a jungle looking for landmarks? But the McGuffin is a time honored tradition.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Finally saw. I was excited to do so so that I could finally understand why there was so much venom and distaste for it. Given the amped up antagonism for it by some, I figured there must be some meat to that antagonism. But upon viewing, not so much. I was disappointed that those leveling such criticisms were grossly overreacting.

To me the film is what everyone who has been watching the evolution of the franchise should have anticipated. The bonus is that visually it is stunning in a way that none of the other episodes have been. It was a solidly entertaining and well done movie. The storytelling was there in a way that has always characterized the franchise, completely predictable every step of the way and yet still fun.


My theory is that some people connect so personally to certain franchises that they take it as an affront when a show runner takes the franchise in a direction that is different from their personal vision. This is true of Star Trek and Doctor Who, also. Heck, you can go to some of the Doctor Who boards and find Brits criticizing each new version of the show in terms that are strikingly similar to what American posters say about the new Star Wars and Star Trek.

On the science point, I have no trouble suspending disbelief for any sci fi product that doesn’t pretend to be serious about the science. The single silliest device in the first two films, in my opinion, was the idea that you needed a map to Luke Skywalker and that the map had a crooked, winding path. What, are you traveling through a jungle looking for landmarks? But the McGuffin is a time honored tradition.


I get ya, but again, that's another typical storytelling device.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject:

The silliest physics that was in the movie as when the ships were taken out. Notice it always looked it it had gravity and the ships would get hit and veer down and to the left or right, no matter what, even in space?

Everything is shown as if it’s a dogfight in normal atmosphere...
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject:

Luke squeezing milk from the space cow/dinosaur thing's teet was the worst part of the movie.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:43 am    Post subject:

Leia Poppins was the worst moment in any Star Wars episode.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Leia Poppins was the worst moment in any Star Wars episode.


just saw it at home. thought it was good, enjoyed the moments of levity. maybe because of the polarizing reviews my expectations were super low but i thought it was fine
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject:

rewatched it again.

Phantom Menace > Last Jedi
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:

Phantom menace for all its faults introduced a whole bunch of cool new stuff

Last Jedi introduced las vegas
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:17 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Phantom menace for all its faults introduced a whole bunch of cool new stuff

Last Jedi introduced las vegas


The faults were too glaring aka Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar Binks. Had those two been eliminated, the movie would've ultimately grossed more.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Hammett wrote:
Good or bad, it's really nice to have all these Star Wars films coming out as an alternative to the over-saturation of comic book heroes in spandex these last ten years.


This film was basically a marvel movie with a star wars theme


Only thing is that Marvel has the top actors in the world filling those spandex tights. Star Wars needed a good lineup to sell this new trilogy. I couldn't give a rat's ass about Daisy Ridley, especially with this Mary Sue character that comes out of nowhere as a master Jedi with zero training.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject:

ChickenBeckerman wrote:
rewatched it again.

Phantom Menace > Last Jedi


Last Jedi may not be one of the best SW films, but it is far better executed on all levels than Phantom Menace.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:
rewatched it again.

Phantom Menace > Last Jedi


Last Jedi may not be one of the best SW films, but it is far better executed on all levels than Phantom Menace.


No doubt about that. This recent piece was interesting:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-george-lucas-admitted-he-went-far-phantom-menace-screening-1070589
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject:

Phantom Menace was (bleep) great. There are individual scenes from the Phantom Menace that are better than the last three Star Wars movies combined.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:
rewatched it again.

Phantom Menace > Last Jedi


Last Jedi may not be one of the best SW films, but it is far better executed on all levels than Phantom Menace.


No doubt about that. This recent piece was interesting:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-george-lucas-admitted-he-went-far-phantom-menace-screening-1070589


Yeah, Menace was a cluster (bleep) of problems all around. I get why some diehard Star Wars fanatics have issues with Last Jedi, but it's laughable to say Menace was a better movie.

Last Jedi is Light Years (see what I did there?) ahead of Menace across the board. It is much more polished and refined and aesthetically it is stunning. There's an amazing shot that still sticks in my mind for it's graphic/cinematic elegance. It's right after Rose's sister releases the bomb and it is a one-point perspective image of her laying face down of the grate on one half of the frame with the grid superimposed over her face and a view of the resulting explosions in the background of the other half of the frame. It was one of many gorgeous shots in Last Jedi. There are no such frames in Menace.
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He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:24 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Yeah, Menace was a cluster (bleep) of problems all around. I get why some diehard Star Wars fanatics have issues with Last Jedi, but it's laughable to say Menace was a better movie.

Last Jedi is Light Years (see what I did there?) ahead of Menace across the board. It is much more polished and refined and aesthetically it is stunning. There's an amazing shot that still sticks in my mind for it's graphic/cinematic elegance. It's right after Rose's sister releases the bomb and it is a one-point perspective image of her laying face down of the grate on one half of the frame with the grid superimposed over her face and a view of the resulting explosions in the background of the other half of the frame. It was one of many gorgeous shots in Last Jedi. There are no such frames in Menace.


Yep. I remember that shot. I thought it was a brilliant touch when they cut the sound when Laura Dern went kamakaze.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Phantom Menace was (bleep) great. There are individual scenes from the Phantom Menace that are better than the last three Star Wars movies combined.


Which scenes?

I really didn't like any of the prequels, but I'm willing to revisit some scenes since it's been so long since I watched it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Yeah, Menace was a cluster (bleep) of problems all around. I get why some diehard Star Wars fanatics have issues with Last Jedi, but it's laughable to say Menace was a better movie.

Last Jedi is Light Years (see what I did there?) ahead of Menace across the board. It is much more polished and refined and aesthetically it is stunning. There's an amazing shot that still sticks in my mind for it's graphic/cinematic elegance. It's right after Rose's sister releases the bomb and it is a one-point perspective image of her laying face down of the grate on one half of the frame with the grid superimposed over her face and a view of the resulting explosions in the background of the other half of the frame. It was one of many gorgeous shots in Last Jedi. There are no such frames in Menace.


Yep. I remember that shot. I thought it was a brilliant touch when they cut the sound when Laura Dern went kamakaze.


I was discussing just that with my fellow Editor yesterday who has been waiting for me to see Last Jedi so we could talk about the film. And that's the thing about this film versus Menace . . . there are interesting things to discuss about how it was done. One thing we also agreed on was the completely unnecessary shot of Kylo Ren shirtless. It was a device that was obviously meant to demonstrate to the audience that they were actually seeing each other rather than just talking telepathically. It was unnecessary because the eye lines and cutting patterns had already well established that, and as a result we just get some pointless beefcake and a silly joke.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Phantom Menace was (bleep) great. There are individual scenes from the Phantom Menace that are better than the last three Star Wars movies combined.


the best is if you watch in order

Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones
The Clone wars cartoon series
ROTS
SW Rebels cartoon series
Rogue One

It really gives you an in deptjh understanding of the series and how everything tied together. I think Filoni did a wonderful job tying the prequels together with the cartoon series
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Phantom Menace was (bleep) great. There are individual scenes from the Phantom Menace that are better than the last three Star Wars movies combined.


You posted that epic Obi Wan/Qui Gon v Darth Maul duel as proof against Force Awakens and no scene sticks out more than that to back your argument. Big ups to John Williams too for that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Phantom Menace was (bleep) great. There are individual scenes from the Phantom Menace that are better than the last three Star Wars movies combined.


You posted that epic Obi Wan/Qui Gon v Darth Maul duel as proof against Force Awakens and no scene sticks out more than that to back your argument. Big ups to John Williams too for that.


That duel is still better than anything in TLJ. Throne room scene had a chance to be similar had they actually had some choreography and not did a bunch of jump cuts and shaky cam. The Luke v. Ren scene had a chance to be better too had they written it so that Luke's force manifestation could actually duel Ren for real.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject:

An anonymous person creates an all-male version of The Last Jedi. Good luck with Ocean's 8.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Phantom menace for all its faults introduced a whole bunch of cool new stuff

Last Jedi introduced las vegas


The whole prequel series was great; better fight scenes dope ass bad guys and every movie made me want to see the next one.

The new ones are good but I was hoping Ben was gonna go nuclear on everyone and it didnt happen.

Ill go see the third one but i doubt it will be as cool as going to the Revenge of the Sith @ the midnight showing
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