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Vishnu
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 Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | So much discussion about Luke. Honestly, I feel there are much bigger problems in TLJ. The entire Canto Bite sequence is painful. I've heard many describe it as reminiscent of the prequels. The last straw for me in that scene was when the alien starts screaming like an opera singer in the middle of the pursuit of Finn and Rose. It definitely fit in with the prequels and the bad special edition changes. |
The two criticisms I hear the most are Luke and Canto Bight. I think the Canto sequence went on a bit too long, but it serves several crucial story purposes. Finn and Rose's arcs rely on it. The movie doesn't work without it.
| Quote: | | The Leia flying through space scene was weird |
I thought it was so cool! I loved the subtext there. Leia is capable of the Force, but has never really used it. She hasn't had time to go train in a forrest or sit on a rock and contemplate because she has been too busy keeping the universe held together. Then it that moment, beautifully and silently, we get to see her power. I get some people see this as a weakness, because if she can use it why doesn't she use it all the time. But that's what I liked about it. |
Admittedly, part of what made the Leia scene weird was that here initial "death" was stunning and felt like this was the way they were going to write her out. To bring her back in an unprecedented way felt like a major changeup. I didn't hate it by any means, but it felt "weird" for lack of a better term. |
I don't think there was a person in any theater that didn't think that was how she was going out. Definitely a bold choice. |
Main reason I did was because Carrie Fisher died. I knew they had said the film was not altered to compensate for her death, but I guess for a minute I just thought they lied. |
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Gimme_the_rock
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:15 am Post subject: |
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That Leia space Poppins flight was a laughable choice at any level. I'm talking The Room bad.
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | So much discussion about Luke. Honestly, I feel there are much bigger problems in TLJ. The entire Canto Bite sequence is painful. I've heard many describe it as reminiscent of the prequels. The last straw for me in that scene was when the alien starts screaming like an opera singer in the middle of the pursuit of Finn and Rose. It definitely fit in with the prequels and the bad special edition changes. |
The two criticisms I hear the most are Luke and Canto Bight. I think the Canto sequence went on a bit too long, but it serves several crucial story purposes. Finn and Rose's arcs rely on it. The movie doesn't work without it.
| Quote: | | The Leia flying through space scene was weird |
I thought it was so cool! I loved the subtext there. Leia is capable of the Force, but has never really used it. She hasn't had time to go train in a forrest or sit on a rock and contemplate because she has been too busy keeping the universe held together. Then it that moment, beautifully and silently, we get to see her power. I get some people see this as a weakness, because if she can use it why doesn't she use it all the time. But that's what I liked about it. |
Admittedly, part of what made the Leia scene weird was that here initial "death" was stunning and felt like this was the way they were going to write her out. To bring her back in an unprecedented way felt like a major changeup. I didn't hate it by any means, but it felt "weird" for lack of a better term. |
I don't think there was a person in any theater that didn't think that was how she was going out. Definitely a bold choice. |
Main reason I did was because Carrie Fisher died. I knew they had said the film was not altered to compensate for her death, but I guess for a minute I just thought they lied. |
Same here!
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | Main reason I did was because Carrie Fisher died. I knew they had said the film was not altered to compensate for her death, but I guess for a minute I just thought they lied. |
Same here! |
Yep, that's what I thought, too. |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| People here have mentioned some of the expanded SW universe being good. Which ones exactly? Like the Clone Wars tv show or what? Haven't read/watched SW stories outside of the films. |
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The Thief
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | So much discussion about Luke. Honestly, I feel there are much bigger problems in TLJ. The entire Canto Bite sequence is painful. I've heard many describe it as reminiscent of the prequels. The last straw for me in that scene was when the alien starts screaming like an opera singer in the middle of the pursuit of Finn and Rose. It definitely fit in with the prequels and the bad special edition changes. |
The two criticisms I hear the most are Luke and Canto Bight. I think the Canto sequence went on a bit too long, but it serves several crucial story purposes. Finn and Rose's arcs rely on it. The movie doesn't work without it.
| Quote: | | The Leia flying through space scene was weird |
I thought it was so cool! I loved the subtext there. Leia is capable of the Force, but has never really used it. She hasn't had time to go train in a forrest or sit on a rock and contemplate because she has been too busy keeping the universe held together. Then it that moment, beautifully and silently, we get to see her power. I get some people see this as a weakness, because if she can use it why doesn't she use it all the time. But that's what I liked about it. |
That scene made me want to walk out of the theatre it was so bad. Here's what should have happened.
Leia gets injured in the attack. In the end she's the one that stays on the ship and decides to sacrifice herself instead of Laura Dern who nobody cared about. As Leia is getting ready to hit light speed the ship gets damaged and the controls are blocked by wreckage or maybe shes hurt even more where she can't move. She then in her last few breaths channels the force to activate light speed ramming the enemy ship and saving the day. Now you have an epic ending to and iconic character that is satisfying. And I came up with that storyline in literally the last 5 minutes. This is why these movies are such an epic failure. I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
You should pursue screenwriting as a profession and see how you do. 
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The Thief
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
You should pursue screenwriting as a profession and see how you do. |
You can winkie face all you want. Your thoughts betray you. You know there is good in my idea I can feel it! |
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The Thief
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
You should pursue screenwriting as a profession and see how you do. |
On a more serious note I don't pretend I can come up with an entire script but I can sure spot a poo poo idea when I see it so maybe editer would be a better option. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | People here have mentioned some of the expanded SW universe being good. Which ones exactly? Like the Clone Wars tv show or what? Haven't read/watched SW stories outside of the films. |
I was referring to the many novels that were released during the 90s and early 2000s, starting with the Thrawn trilogy. At the time, they were officially approved by Lucas as sequels to the original trilogy and were quite enjoyable. Now though, since feature film sequels have been released (along with their new side story literature), it's basically fan fiction for sale. Lucasfilm now calls the books "Star Wars Legacy". I don't think the stories would be as enjoyable since you would know it is not part of the canon.
I've watched the Clone Wars. I liked it for what it was. I didn't love it simply because it focuses on an era in Star Wars I'm not that interested in. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The Thief wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
You should pursue screenwriting as a profession and see how you do. |
You can winkie face all you want. Your thoughts betray you. You know there is good in my idea I can feel it! |
 I don't see your idea as being wildly different as the one in the movie. I get the desire to see everyone go out in a blaze of glory but they clearly didn't intend for the character to die in this movie and once Carrie Fisher died it probably felt weird for them to kill her. I don't know how they're planning to address it in the next one but we'll see.
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Fallout
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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TLJ is just one big debbie downer movie for me, just more depressing as it goes on:
-Rebel's main defense against the imperials is ships move at the same speed.
-The whole cantina adventure did nothing to save the rebels.
-In fact they got a traitor hacker who almost destroyed the rebels.
-Wasted Del Toro's character.
-One last chance when Finn was doing a suicide run to buy time for the rebels, Rose stopped him. Imperials would have slaughtered all of them.
-The ending was sad. Leia puts out a distress signal with her personal code.
No one came.
-Lousy send off for one of the most iconic characters in the Star Wars universe.
The story writing is just so poor.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | People here have mentioned some of the expanded SW universe being good. Which ones exactly? Like the Clone Wars tv show or what? Haven't read/watched SW stories outside of the films. |
I was referring to the many novels that were released during the 90s and early 2000s, starting with the Thrawn trilogy. At the time, they were officially approved by Lucas as sequels to the original trilogy and were quite enjoyable. Now though, since feature film sequels have been released (along with their new side story literature), it's basically fan fiction for sale. Lucasfilm now calls the books "Star Wars Legacy". I don't think the stories would be as enjoyable since you would know it is not part of the canon.
I've watched the Clone Wars. I liked it for what it was. I didn't love it simply because it focuses on an era in Star Wars I'm not that interested in. |
I agree about the Clone Wars. I watched an episode or so, but found myself thinking that most of the characters were about to get murdered.
I believe that the first book in the legacy series was The Courtship of Princess Leia, which is about Han and Leia of course. I thought it was mediocre. Then came the Timothy Zahn trilogy. The first book is Heir to the Empire.
For anyone who is interested in the legacy series, I recommend starting with Heir to the Empire. It provides the sort of story that fans of the original trilogy would have wanted. It may have lost some of its luster because it is no longer canonical, but on the other hand it addresses a lot of the questions that were left hanging. What happens to the Empire once the Emperor and Vader are gone? How do you turn a rebellion into a government? What does Luke do next?
I didn’t read the whole long series of books, but I think it’s still worthwhile. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | People here have mentioned some of the expanded SW universe being good. Which ones exactly? Like the Clone Wars tv show or what? Haven't read/watched SW stories outside of the films. |
I was referring to the many novels that were released during the 90s and early 2000s, starting with the Thrawn trilogy. At the time, they were officially approved by Lucas as sequels to the original trilogy and were quite enjoyable. Now though, since feature film sequels have been released (along with their new side story literature), it's basically fan fiction for sale. Lucasfilm now calls the books "Star Wars Legacy". I don't think the stories would be as enjoyable since you would know it is not part of the canon.
I've watched the Clone Wars. I liked it for what it was. I didn't love it simply because it focuses on an era in Star Wars I'm not that interested in. |
I agree about the Clone Wars. I watched an episode or so, but found myself thinking that most of the characters were about to get murdered.
I believe that the first book in the legacy series was The Courtship of Princess Leia, which is about Han and Leia of course. I thought it was mediocre. Then came the Timothy Zahn trilogy. The first book is Heir to the Empire.
For anyone who is interested in the legacy series, I recommend starting with Heir to the Empire. It provides the sort of story that fans of the original trilogy would have wanted. It may have lost some of its luster because it is no longer canonical, but on the other hand it addresses a lot of the questions that were left hanging. What happens to the Empire once the Emperor and Vader are gone? How do you turn a rebellion into a government? What does Luke do next?
I didn’t read the whole long series of books, but I think it’s still worthwhile. |
Pretty sure Heir to the Empire was first. Everything else was built off that book. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I looked it up. You are correct. |
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22
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| The Thief wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | So much discussion about Luke. Honestly, I feel there are much bigger problems in TLJ. The entire Canto Bite sequence is painful. I've heard many describe it as reminiscent of the prequels. The last straw for me in that scene was when the alien starts screaming like an opera singer in the middle of the pursuit of Finn and Rose. It definitely fit in with the prequels and the bad special edition changes. |
The two criticisms I hear the most are Luke and Canto Bight. I think the Canto sequence went on a bit too long, but it serves several crucial story purposes. Finn and Rose's arcs rely on it. The movie doesn't work without it.
| Quote: | | The Leia flying through space scene was weird |
I thought it was so cool! I loved the subtext there. Leia is capable of the Force, but has never really used it. She hasn't had time to go train in a forrest or sit on a rock and contemplate because she has been too busy keeping the universe held together. Then it that moment, beautifully and silently, we get to see her power. I get some people see this as a weakness, because if she can use it why doesn't she use it all the time. But that's what I liked about it. |
That scene made me want to walk out of the theatre it was so bad. Here's what should have happened.
Leia gets injured in the attack. In the end she's the one that stays on the ship and decides to sacrifice herself instead of Laura Dern who nobody cared about. As Leia is getting ready to hit light speed the ship gets damaged and the controls are blocked by wreckage or maybe shes hurt even more where she can't move. She then in her last few breaths channels the force to activate light speed ramming the enemy ship and saving the day. Now you have an epic ending to and iconic character that is satisfying. And I came up with that storyline in literally the last 5 minutes. This is why these movies are such an epic failure. I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
I would have loved this!! |
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2017 Summer League Champs
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Vishnu wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Vishnu wrote: | | 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: | | People here have mentioned some of the expanded SW universe being good. Which ones exactly? Like the Clone Wars tv show or what? Haven't read/watched SW stories outside of the films. |
I was referring to the many novels that were released during the 90s and early 2000s, starting with the Thrawn trilogy. At the time, they were officially approved by Lucas as sequels to the original trilogy and were quite enjoyable. Now though, since feature film sequels have been released (along with their new side story literature), it's basically fan fiction for sale. Lucasfilm now calls the books "Star Wars Legacy". I don't think the stories would be as enjoyable since you would know it is not part of the canon.
I've watched the Clone Wars. I liked it for what it was. I didn't love it simply because it focuses on an era in Star Wars I'm not that interested in. |
I agree about the Clone Wars. I watched an episode or so, but found myself thinking that most of the characters were about to get murdered.
I believe that the first book in the legacy series was The Courtship of Princess Leia, which is about Han and Leia of course. I thought it was mediocre. Then came the Timothy Zahn trilogy. The first book is Heir to the Empire.
For anyone who is interested in the legacy series, I recommend starting with Heir to the Empire. It provides the sort of story that fans of the original trilogy would have wanted. It may have lost some of its luster because it is no longer canonical, but on the other hand it addresses a lot of the questions that were left hanging. What happens to the Empire once the Emperor and Vader are gone? How do you turn a rebellion into a government? What does Luke do next?
I didn’t read the whole long series of books, but I think it’s still worthwhile. |
Pretty sure Heir to the Empire was first. Everything else was built off that book. |
Awesome. Thanks you two. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| The Thief wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
You should pursue screenwriting as a profession and see how you do. |
On a more serious note I don't pretend I can come up with an entire script but I can sure spot a poo poo idea when I see it so maybe editer would be a better option. |
You have no idea how many times Editors have saved Writers from their "poo-poo ideas". 
But it doesn't end there. As an Editor, once that poo-poo idea is identified, you have to figure out how to cut around it and make sure everything still tracks.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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The Thief
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | The Thief wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Quote: | | I could take 3 random people from this message board and we can come up with better plot lines than what they gave us. |
You should pursue screenwriting as a profession and see how you do. |
On a more serious note I don't pretend I can come up with an entire script but I can sure spot a poo poo idea when I see it so maybe editer would be a better option. |
You have no idea how many times Editors have saved Writers from their "poo-poo ideas".
But it doesn't end there. As an Editor, once that poo-poo idea is identified, you have to figure out how to cut around it and make sure everything still tracks. |
Yeah the problem with TLJ was that it was mostly poo poo and should have been a complete throwaway. I'm curious if they already had all 3 scripts done before shooting the first movie or was TLJ thrown together after the fact? |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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The idea that Disney buys LucasFilm for $4B and then "throws together" the scripts for their movies.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | The idea that Disney buys LucasFilm for $4B and then "throws together" the scripts for their movies.
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True. On the other hand, JJ Abrams is involved. He is not exactly a Jedi Master when it comes to things like continuity. He has been known to paint himself into a corner and to do things just for surprise value. I have more than a little bit of doubt about his ability to bring this trilogy to a satisfactory conclusion. |
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ocho
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | ocho wrote: | The idea that Disney buys LucasFilm for $4B and then "throws together" the scripts for their movies.
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True. On the other hand, JJ Abrams is involved. He is not exactly a Jedi Master when it comes to things like continuity. He has been known to paint himself into a corner and to do things just for surprise value. I have more than a little bit of doubt about his ability to bring this trilogy to a satisfactory conclusion. |
I'm not the biggest JJ Abrams fan. I'd much prefer Rian Johnson for the final installment. I'm not sure if there were specific continuity issues you had with TLJ, but I'd venture to guess some may have to do with Abrams insistence on putting an air of mystery around all his proceedings whether it's prudent to the story or not.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | I'm not the biggest JJ Abrams fan. I'd much prefer Rian Johnson for the final installment. I'm not sure if there were specific continuity issues you had with TLJ, but I'd venture to guess some may have to do with Abrams insistence on putting an air of mystery around all his proceedings whether it's prudent to the story or not. |
Not really, but trilogy isn’t done yet. JJ Abrams is the kind of writer who would have Rey wake up and find Han Solo in the shower. |
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Vishnu
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Not that this means that TLJ was just thrown together, but all 3 movies were not written before The Force Awakens. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JJ Abrams is the kind of writer who would have Rey wake up and find Han Solo in the shower. |
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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