Star Wars: The Last Jedi
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ChickenBeckerman
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:
rewatched it again.

Phantom Menace > Last Jedi


Last Jedi may not be one of the best SW films, but it is far better executed on all levels than Phantom Menace.


Far better executed at being boring, disheveled and ultimately forgettable.

They're still making fantastic product based off the worlds, characters and precedents from Phantom Menace. The Clone Wars series itself is better than anything introduced in Last Jedi. Oh wait, pretty shots I guess.

Additionally:

Pod Races > That whole stupid uneccesary Casino heist monstrosity.

Quigon ObiWan Darth Maul Battle > That wanna be Kill Bill lightsaber letdown


No emotional weight in anything Rian attempted in TLJ. At least Qui Gons death felt meaningful. TLJ was a hackjob at best.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:

I loved this movie. I sort of get some of the criticism ( Except for the criticism surrounding Luke, I LOVED what they did with Luke) but all I ever ask of any movie I watch is to be entertained and I was damned entertained.

TLJ was better than any of the prequels. Search your heart, you know this to be true.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject:

ChickenBeckerman wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChickenBeckerman wrote:
rewatched it again.

Phantom Menace > Last Jedi


Last Jedi may not be one of the best SW films, but it is far better executed on all levels than Phantom Menace.


Far better executed at being boring, disheveled and ultimately forgettable.

They're still making fantastic product based off the worlds, characters and precedents from Phantom Menace. The Clone Wars series itself is better than anything introduced in Last Jedi. Oh wait, pretty shots I guess.

Additionally:

Pod Races > That whole stupid uneccesary Casino heist monstrosity.

Quigon ObiWan Darth Maul Battle > That wanna be Kill Bill lightsaber letdown


No emotional weight in anything Rian attempted in TLJ. At least Qui Gons death felt meaningful. TLJ was a hackjob at best.


Agreed on all counts
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject:

Triumph wrote:
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Phantom Menace was (bleep) great. There are individual scenes from the Phantom Menace that are better than the last three Star Wars movies combined.


Which scenes?

I really didn't like any of the prequels, but I'm willing to revisit some scenes since it's been so long since I watched it.


>Any of the scenes in which a light saber was used, including but not limited to:

>the opening droid fight which includes the screen presence and physical talent of pre-widow Liam Neeson and a prime Ewan McGregor.

>the Kenobi/Maul duel. A masterpiece of both cinematography and fight choreography

Also:

>the pod race. Memed to death, but has some damned good CG visuals even for 2018. The sound design in this segment is unbelievable.

and more
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
>the opening droid fight which includes the screen presence and physical talent of pre-widow Liam Neeson and a prime Ewan McGregor.


That scene was thrilling. Unfortunately, it was a 2 hour plus movie. I know that some people like it, but the same is true of a lot of mediocre movies. My reaction was, and still is, that it was a badly wasted opportunity and further proof that Lucas’ greatness was not as a storyteller.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

I thought this was by far the worst SW movie. At least Phantom Menace had stand out special effects for the time and didn't crap all over the mythology. Disney is a confusing company right now. They have bad writers and directors working on major movies yet fire James Gunn one of their only good ones.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
crap all over the mythology.



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject:

2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
I thought this was by far the worst SW movie. At least Phantom Menace had stand out special effects for the time and didn't crap all over the mythology. Disney is a confusing company right now. They have bad writers and directors working on major movies yet fire James Gunn one of their only good ones.


MIDICHLORIANS!

Overall I quite like what they've done so far. They've been criticised for bastardising tropes from the originals, but where they have they've generally stripped those tropes away one by one to bring us to a point where they can break some new ground without it feeling like a drastic departure. Expecting a petulant Ren and frustrated Rey stuck in the midst of their respective committees and leaderships just trying to get at each other (in one sense or another).
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject:

Pidge wrote:
2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
I thought this was by far the worst SW movie. At least Phantom Menace had stand out special effects for the time and didn't crap all over the mythology. Disney is a confusing company right now. They have bad writers and directors working on major movies yet fire James Gunn one of their only good ones.


MIDICHLORIANS!

Overall I quite like what they've done so far. They've been criticised for bastardising tropes from the originals, but where they have they've generally stripped those tropes away one by one to bring us to a point where they can break some new ground without it feeling like a drastic departure. Expecting a petulant Ren and frustrated Rey stuck in the midst of their respective committees and leaderships just trying to get at each other (in one sense or another).


Well you are definitely right about the midichlorians. But I would still go as far as to say The Last Jedi was one of the least enjoyable movies I have ever seen. The franchise is basically the new Transformers.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
crap all over the mythology.




I honestly don't know how anyone can even disagree with that.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject:

2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
Pidge wrote:
2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
I thought this was by far the worst SW movie. At least Phantom Menace had stand out special effects for the time and didn't crap all over the mythology. Disney is a confusing company right now. They have bad writers and directors working on major movies yet fire James Gunn one of their only good ones.


MIDICHLORIANS!

Overall I quite like what they've done so far. They've been criticised for bastardising tropes from the originals, but where they have they've generally stripped those tropes away one by one to bring us to a point where they can break some new ground without it feeling like a drastic departure. Expecting a petulant Ren and frustrated Rey stuck in the midst of their respective committees and leaderships just trying to get at each other (in one sense or another).


Well you are definitely right about the midichlorians. But I would still go as far as to say The Last Jedi was one of the least enjoyable movies I have ever seen. The franchise is basically the new Transformers.


Couldn't disagree more, the whole story arc rests on characters, rather than action and spectacle. Disney could easily have pointed at Marvel's cookie-cutter money machine and said "do that", but - to their credit - they haven't (at least with the main trilogy, the others feel like they're edging that way - although that's admittedly just the impression of someone who hasn't seen Solo).

But you are of course free to have your opinion. I know plenty of mid-90s kids who grew up loving the prequels. They get films to get nostalgic about and I get to reinforce the delusional conceit that everyone younger than me has **** for brains so it's a win-win.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject:

2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
crap all over the mythology.




I honestly don't know how anyone can even disagree with that.


This doesn't surprise me.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:42 pm    Post subject:

Solo Story was better than Last Jedi. So was Rogue One. Can't believe someone as talented as Rian Johnson could effectively (bleep) on the great character that is Luke Skywalker, but he did, and that's just one of the many bits of lore this movie managed to ruin. Oh and possibly the worst sendoff Carrie Fisher (RIP) could ever ask for as Princess Leia. The moment she floated back to the starship marked one of the lowest points in cinema. Complete disrespect for the character, the story and the audience.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Can't believe someone as talented as Rian Johnson could effectively (bleep) on the great character that is Luke Skywalker, but he did, and that's just one of the many bits of lore this movie managed to ruin.



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
Can't believe someone as talented as Rian Johnson could effectively (bleep) on the great character that is Luke Skywalker, but he did, and that's just one of the many bits of lore this movie managed to ruin.




You liked it. Good for you.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject:

2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
I thought this was by far the worst SW movie. At least Phantom Menace had stand out special effects for the time and didn't crap all over the mythology. Disney is a confusing company right now. They have bad writers and directors working on major movies yet fire James Gunn one of their only good ones.


Ridiculous . . . And then you have the nerve to go on about "mythology" . . .
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject:

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Couldn't disagree more, the whole story arc rests on characters, rather than action and spectacle. Disney could easily have pointed at Marvel's cookie-cutter money machine and said "do that", but - to their credit - they haven't


There's a certain subtext behind almost all the Marvel movies that appeals to the same fans who decry the "SJW" elements of Last Jedi and mourn the destruction of their beloved Luke. There's storytelling and there's fan service. It has been interesting to see what a lot of the same people like and dislike about the two universes. .
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
Couldn't disagree more, the whole story arc rests on characters, rather than action and spectacle. Disney could easily have pointed at Marvel's cookie-cutter money machine and said "do that", but - to their credit - they haven't


There's a certain subtext behind almost all the Marvel movies that appeals to the same fans who decry the "SJW" elements of Last Jedi and mourn the destruction of their beloved Luke. There's storytelling and there's fan service. It has been interesting to see what a lot of the same people like and dislike about the two universes. .


Perfectly stated.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
I thought this was by far the worst SW movie. At least Phantom Menace had stand out special effects for the time and didn't crap all over the mythology. Disney is a confusing company right now. They have bad writers and directors working on major movies yet fire James Gunn one of their only good ones.


Ridiculous . . . And then you have the nerve to go on about "mythology" . . .


I'm not going to get into a lengthy argument about a terrible movie and I won't bother responding again but I think you are very much in the minority on this one. For decades SW was controlled by one man. Since the release of Episode 7 in 2015 how many writers and directors have been involved with the SW universe? How many have been fired? Don't you think the mythology has been muffled with so many cooks in the kitchen? It was originally a very simple story about destiny and the chosen one. There were built up plot lines from episode 7 that went nowhere in episode 8. Hell, there were plot lines in episode 8 that went nowhere in episode 8. It was clear that episode 7 and 8 were written by different people. That should never be obvious. How the hell do you do a trilogy in which the first movie is written by three people and the next one is written by someone entirely different than any of those three people? And even episode 9 has changed writers than what was originally planned and then changed writers again.

If Phantom Menace screwed up the mythology so bad why were the sequels so popular? How was the finale of the prequel trilogy so good? How did SW get sold to Disney for billions? Han Solo just bombed. SW movies have been canceled post Last Jedi. People in foreign markets that the original trilogy weren't popular in were completely confused by Last Jedi. People are dreading the new Rian Johnson trilogy and have absolutely no idea where they are going with it. Major players have spoken out about the direction of Last Jedi for a reason.

Phantom Menace was very poorly acted. Poorly directed even. No idea how a damn CGI character could be so annoying when they could have made alterations to the character. But the CGI was amazing for the time. It had a great villain. Dual of the Fates is one of the best things John Williams has ever done imo. It was at least entertaining. Last Jedi wasn't just bad, it was offensively bad. Again, this is just my opinion. There are lots of extremely popular movies I don't understand.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject:

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For decades SW was controlled by one man. Since the release of Episode 7 in 2015 how many writers and directors have been involved with the SW universe?


Star Wars was written and directed by George Lucas. The Empire Strikes Back was written by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan and directed by Kasdan. Return of the Jedi was written by Kasdan and Lucas and directed by Richard Marquand.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
For decades SW was controlled by one man. Since the release of Episode 7 in 2015 how many writers and directors have been involved with the SW universe?


Star Wars was written and directed by George Lucas. The Empire Strikes Back was written by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan and directed by Kasdan. Return of the Jedi was written by Kasdan and Lucas and directed by Richard Marquand.


I used the word "controlled" for a reason. And Lucas wrote the stories for all three.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject:

2017 Summer League Champs wrote:
Phantom Menace was very poorly acted. Poorly directed even. No idea how a damn CGI character could be so annoying when they could have made alterations to the character. But the CGI was amazing for the time.


I'm not going to get into the stuff about The Last Jedi. I thought it was sort of eh. I mostly liked it, but I've never felt the urge to watch it a second time. Perhaps the biggest problem with the franchise is the proliferation of content in a fictional universe that lacks depth and really doesn't make a lot of sense. (For example, what exactly are Luke's aunt and uncle farming in the desert?)

But Phantom Menace is a completely different subject. That was just dreadful. It sounds like you largely agree. But I disagree on one thing -- the CGI was not amazing for the time. Oh, there were moments of brilliance, like the opening fight scene. But even when I watched it for the first time in a theater, I thought a lot of the other scenes were underwhelming. When I catch a couple minutes of Phantom Menace on TV now and again, I have exactly the same reaction.

In particular, the integration of the CGI with the real actors was poor. Maybe that is a question of direction, but if the CGI looks fake when you watch it, it's not good CGI by any standard. It had been a long time since Lucas had actually directed a movie himself, and I don't think he was up to the job. There are scenes in which the actors are sort of looking blankly at animated stuff, such as Jar Jar. We saw better use of CGI in TNG, and TNG had been off the air for five years when Phantom Menace came out.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Don’t y’all dare bring Marvel into this! We good over here fam and the MCU is highly successful and well. Y’all can keep that disfunctionality in the Star Wars universe lol
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject:

I saw this when it came out and have only seen it that one time, so I don't remember all the plot points but my feeling about the movie was that something's was just WAAY off. People like to knock on Epispde 7, which I thought did a nice job of meshing together fan service, box office expectations, serving the old fans, serving the new ones etc. But this one..I don't know, that whole Ray/Kylo Ren relationship felt quite forced, Snook getting killed...ok? Everything felt rushed and underwhelming. Bah.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

I watched it again recently and I disliked it much more this time around.
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