Magic And Rob are doing a great job so far.
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LakerLand247
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

They nailed it alright by gifting a top 3 pick to Boston.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
The only gaff and its major, are the public comments that have been a distraction for the players. The unnecessary pressure on Zo and BI. The tampering. The distraction for the vets who aren’t in the future plans. The annointing of Luke as their only asset Jerry West and Dr Buss would’ve never have done this.

The moves I agree with.


A lot of the things that you mention are not abnormal. The issue is that we live in a different era and everything because of the worldwide media coverage and social media, things are magnified. Combine that with the Lakers being.... the Lakers, things are REALLY magnified. Jerry West and Dr. Buss never had to deal with this type of microscope. Magic is learning.

The players issues, are what they are. The Lakers creating cap space and talking about free agency, was by nature gonna create an uneasiness. That's business though. No way around that. They have to get over it. Play hard, and you may be apart of this future team. Sulk and pout and when its time to make a decision, you just made that decision easy.

No, the message they are sending out is "play hard but you might still not be part of this future team because we need to sign max players". I guess you have no idea how this disrupts a team's chemistry. Only a dysfunctional organisation would allow the manager to create this kind of culture.


Ok, so what's the alternative? Magic nor Rob has ever said that any of the young guys are being traded. The media are the ones saying that. They are the ones trying to read the tea leaves and putting all of this speculation out there. Its just unfortunate that the players are listening to the outside noise instead of just going out and playing.


Actually, it's the math saying that. There's room for JC OR Randle IF we can dispose of Deng properly in the official 2 max plan.

So, either one of them is traded or Randle walks with nothing coming back unless the 2 max plan is "altered."
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:16 am    Post subject:

LakerLand247 wrote:
They nailed it alright by gifting a top 3 pick to Boston.


How did they do that? Get your facts straight. That was a Mitch and Jim trade that was done way before Magic and Rob got here! That pick has been traded and re-traded and the Laker have nothing to do with that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Ok, lets look at the other possibility. What if Russell sulked at having his starting point position taken and given to a rookie, did play as well and lowered his trade value? Then what?

There are things that are going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Magic sees and are around these players daily. The know their personalities and who could or would cause a problem in the locker room. we have to give front offices the benefit of the doubt. We don't know these players, they do.


Russell was moved to the 2 at the end of last year next to Clarkson, and it was his idea to flip roles with JC. He went on to average 19ppg after the All-Star break at nearly league average efficiency. What would he have looked like with an additional year of experience and with Lonzo Ball setting him up instead of Jordan Clarkson?

They didn't like his demeanor, and the FO isn't forward thinking enough to consider playing both of them together, so that's why he's gone. They got a new "Point Guard" so the old "Point Guard" became unnecessary.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

GoldenThroat wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Ok, lets look at the other possibility. What if Russell sulked at having his starting point position taken and given to a rookie, did play as well and lowered his trade value? Then what?

There are things that are going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Magic sees and are around these players daily. The know their personalities and who could or would cause a problem in the locker room. we have to give front offices the benefit of the doubt. We don't know these players, they do.


Russell was moved to the 2 at the end of last year next to Clarkson, and it was his idea to flip roles with JC. He went on to average 19ppg after the All-Star break at nearly league average efficiency. What would he have looked like with an additional year of experience and with Lonzo Ball setting him up instead of Jordan Clarkson?

They didn't like his demeanor, and the FO isn't forward thinking enough to consider playing both of them together, so that's why he's gone. They got a new "Point Guard" so the old "Point Guard" became unnecessary.


Ok, so you believe that moving Mozgov's contract had nothing to do with it?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

Harlemlakerfan wrote:

I disagree with the premise of this being a "Rah, Rah" post. Its more about giving credit where credit is due. Everybody is freaking and out and have completely lost focus on the bigger picture. Rob and Magic deserve the proper amount of time to undo a lot of mistakes and to institute their own plan before receiving ridicule. I think so far, they have earned that much.



I have no problem with the notion they"deserve the proper amount of time to undo a lot of mistakes and to institute their own plan before receiving ridicule."

But that's a world away from declaring that "they are doing a great job" (which I think is premature).

Just as you need to give them time before you declare them a failure, you need to give them time before you declare them a success.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Ok, lets look at the other possibility. What if Russell sulked at having his starting point position taken and given to a rookie, did play as well and lowered his trade value? Then what?

There are things that are going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Magic sees and are around these players daily. The know their personalities and who could or would cause a problem in the locker room. we have to give front offices the benefit of the doubt. We don't know these players, they do.


Russell was moved to the 2 at the end of last year next to Clarkson, and it was his idea to flip roles with JC. He went on to average 19ppg after the All-Star break at nearly league average efficiency. What would he have looked like with an additional year of experience and with Lonzo Ball setting him up instead of Jordan Clarkson?

They didn't like his demeanor, and the FO isn't forward thinking enough to consider playing both of them together, so that's why he's gone. They got a new "Point Guard" so the old "Point Guard" became unnecessary.


Ok, so you believe that moving Mozgov's contract had nothing to do with it?


Sure. But let me ask you this. With Lonzo's surprisingly good defense (which we all thought was going to be an issue), which would you have?

Lonzo/DLO/PG13 or

Lonzo/PG13/BI?

I think it's a fair comparison (and Nets of course would have taken BI instead of DLO).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
BigE32 wrote:
The Summer of 2018 will be the real test. The FO has stated their intent is to sign 2 max FA. We’ll see if their plan and dream scenario comes to fruition.


Magic's interview last month sounded like they're already back peddling on that, saying they may just sign 1 FA and wait for 2019.


If that happens, it's a failure. I will laugh at Magic and Jeanie if that happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Summer of 2018 has always been the real test. If we get 2 max level worthy guys, then they have accomplished their mission. Until then, too soon to be celebrating or lamenting.

Yes.

This offseason will be telling, they've been gearing up for this and if they can get it done then they've accomplished what they set out for, if not then it's another major setback where the team stays performing similarly to what has been going on as of late.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject:

I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


Regardless of the production of Lonzo, Brook or KCP...all they moves they made are in line with a team vision. Get better defensively, create cap room. They had a clear vision and are sticking to it and I agree with it.

Right now, if they don’t make any more moves...resign Randle and Add either PG or Cousins this offseason, they have won in my eyes. Now if they decide to dump clarkson/randle just for cap space and they DON’T sign 2 max FA’s, they have fallen short.

They will need to do something big this offseason, since they went through all of the trouble to create cap space...but so far so good IMO.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

It's like proclaiming on the eve of DDay that the Allied Forces "nailed it." Praising them about their preparations, etc.

We still need DDay to happen. July 2018 will roll around soon enough.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Ok, lets look at the other possibility. What if Russell sulked at having his starting point position taken and given to a rookie, did play as well and lowered his trade value? Then what?

There are things that are going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Magic sees and are around these players daily. The know their personalities and who could or would cause a problem in the locker room. we have to give front offices the benefit of the doubt. We don't know these players, they do.


Russell was moved to the 2 at the end of last year next to Clarkson, and it was his idea to flip roles with JC. He went on to average 19ppg after the All-Star break at nearly league average efficiency. What would he have looked like with an additional year of experience and with Lonzo Ball setting him up instead of Jordan Clarkson?

They didn't like his demeanor, and the FO isn't forward thinking enough to consider playing both of them together, so that's why he's gone. They got a new "Point Guard" so the old "Point Guard" became unnecessary.


Ok, so you believe that moving Mozgov's contract had nothing to do with it?


Of course it does, I was just disputing the idea that Russell would've sulked when moving to the 2. Personally, I wouldn't have moved any young player to shed themselves of a contract. If they get 2 max players, then it will have made sense, but that's a pretty high bar.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


Regardless of the production of Lonzo, Brook or KCP...all they moves they made are in line with a team vision. Get better defensively, create cap room. They had a clear vision and are sticking to it and I agree with it.

Right now, if they don’t make any more moves...resign Randle and Add either PG or Cousins this offseason, they have won in my eyes. Now if they decide to dump clarkson/randle just for cap space and they DON’T sign 2 max FA’s, they have fallen short.

They will need to do something big this offseason, since they went through all of the trouble to create cap space...but so far so good IMO.


Won what exactly? If we finish with 28 games, that's "winning?" (and no 2 max FAs)? Then there was literally no need to make the costly moves.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

GoldenThroat wrote:
Of course it does, I was just disputing the idea that Russell would've sulked when moving to the 2. Personally, I wouldn't have moved any young player to shed themselves of a contract. If they get 2 max players, then it will have made sense, but that's a pretty high bar.


Exactly, and they need to be bona fide max players. If Magic and Pelinka pull it off, I will tip my cap to them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
If we don’t win more games than last season then this season is a failure. But hype rules.


Magic will always supply Laker nation with tons of that stuff.....


Some is good, too much is too much. Good to see the quiet while we are losing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


Regardless of the production of Lonzo, Brook or KCP...all they moves they made are in line with a team vision. Get better defensively, create cap room. They had a clear vision and are sticking to it and I agree with it.

Right now, if they don’t make any more moves...resign Randle and Add either PG or Cousins this offseason, they have won in my eyes. Now if they decide to dump clarkson/randle just for cap space and they DON’T sign 2 max FA’s, they have fallen short.

They will need to do something big this offseason, since they went through all of the trouble to create cap space...but so far so good IMO.


Won what exactly? If we finish with 28 games, that's "winning?" (and no 2 max FAs)? Then there was literally no need to make the costly moves.


Their moves having nothing to do with how many games we are going to win this year, it’s about setting the team up for success in the future. Keeping Lou and DLO and overpaying Swaggy to stay would have netted us more win and we’d be stuck in the same cycle....no defense with a bunch of players that aren’t that serious about the game.

The thinking that organizational success is directly tied to immediate wins is what led us to sign Mos and Deng in the first place. Let it go...the only way we can be successful is to develop a culture and a vision and stick to it and stop chasing empty wins at the sake of creating a team.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


Regardless of the production of Lonzo, Brook or KCP...all they moves they made are in line with a team vision. Get better defensively, create cap room. They had a clear vision and are sticking to it and I agree with it.

Right now, if they don’t make any more moves...resign Randle and Add either PG or Cousins this offseason, they have won in my eyes. Now if they decide to dump clarkson/randle just for cap space and they DON’T sign 2 max FA’s, they have fallen short.

They will need to do something big this offseason, since they went through all of the trouble to create cap space...but so far so good IMO.


Won what exactly? If we finish with 28 games, that's "winning?" (and no 2 max FAs)? Then there was literally no need to make the costly moves.


Their moves having nothing to do with how many games we are going to win this year, it’s about setting the team up for success in the future. Keeping Lou and DLO and overpaying Swaggy to stay would have netted us more win and we’d be stuck in the same cycle....no defense with a bunch of players that aren’t that serious about the game.

The thinking that organizational success is directly tied to immediate wins is what led us to sign Mos and Deng in the first place. Let it go...the only way we can be successful is to develop a culture and a vision and stick to it and stop chasing empty wins at the sake of creating a team.


Not really. If in your situation, we don't win this year, don't get 2 max FAs, then they have failed at their plan. They can surely revise it if that happens, but to say it was a "success" would just be dishonest.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Magic And Rob Nailed it.

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Ok, lets look at the other possibility. What if Russell sulked at having his starting point position taken and given to a rookie, did play as well and lowered his trade value? Then what?

There are things that are going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Magic sees and are around these players daily. The know their personalities and who could or would cause a problem in the locker room. we have to give front offices the benefit of the doubt. We don't know these players, they do.


Russell was moved to the 2 at the end of last year next to Clarkson, and it was his idea to flip roles with JC. He went on to average 19ppg after the All-Star break at nearly league average efficiency. What would he have looked like with an additional year of experience and with Lonzo Ball setting him up instead of Jordan Clarkson?

They didn't like his demeanor, and the FO isn't forward thinking enough to consider playing both of them together, so that's why he's gone. They got a new "Point Guard" so the old "Point Guard" became unnecessary.


Ok, so you believe that moving Mozgov's contract had nothing to do with it?


It shouldn’t have.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


Regardless of the production of Lonzo, Brook or KCP...all they moves they made are in line with a team vision. Get better defensively, create cap room. They had a clear vision and are sticking to it and I agree with it.

Right now, if they don’t make any more moves...resign Randle and Add either PG or Cousins this offseason, they have won in my eyes. Now if they decide to dump clarkson/randle just for cap space and they DON’T sign 2 max FA’s, they have fallen short.

They will need to do something big this offseason, since they went through all of the trouble to create cap space...but so far so good IMO.


Won what exactly? If we finish with 28 games, that's "winning?" (and no 2 max FAs)? Then there was literally no need to make the costly moves.


Certainly not more games
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


4) Lou was winning in Hou, and Swaggy is winning in GS. I think you mean this Lakers team doesn't play winning basketball.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I like the vision and I’ve liked all of the off the court moves

1) DLO + Mosgov for Brook + Pick. I am not a believer in DLO, on paper Brook looked like he would at least make up for DLO’s production, helped clear a ton of cap space. Good Move

2) KCP for one year. He has been disappointing to me, but on a one year rental is was a great move.

3) Draft, they killed in IMO

4) Dumping Lou, not resigning or trying to resign Swaggy. I hold them in about the same esteem as DLO, they can score...but they don’t play winning basketball and are not serious about improving their game beyond just scoring points.


Regardless of the production of Lonzo, Brook or KCP...all they moves they made are in line with a team vision. Get better defensively, create cap room. They had a clear vision and are sticking to it and I agree with it.

Right now, if they don’t make any more moves...resign Randle and Add either PG or Cousins this offseason, they have won in my eyes. Now if they decide to dump clarkson/randle just for cap space and they DON’T sign 2 max FA’s, they have fallen short.

They will need to do something big this offseason, since they went through all of the trouble to create cap space...but so far so good IMO.


Won what exactly? If we finish with 28 games, that's "winning?" (and no 2 max FAs)? Then there was literally no need to make the costly moves.


Their moves having nothing to do with how many games we are going to win this year, it’s about setting the team up for success in the future. Keeping Lou and DLO and overpaying Swaggy to stay would have netted us more win and we’d be stuck in the same cycle....no defense with a bunch of players that aren’t that serious about the game.

The thinking that organizational success is directly tied to immediate wins is what led us to sign Mos and Deng in the first place. Let it go...the only way we can be successful is to develop a culture and a vision and stick to it and stop chasing empty wins at the sake of creating a team.


So what they have won is your dreams? Nothing that actually manifests itself on the court? And I hate to tell you that they have already wandered from their vision and culture. Maybe a step from the dream world to the real world? It looks like our FO has already learned that lesson. And their moves have everything to do with us winning this season. They are the ones who gave away our 3 point shooters in a 3 point shooting league.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
If we don’t win more games than last season then this season is a failure. But hype rules.


especially when we were tanking last year. It would be an indictment on Luke if they can't win at least the same number of games this year without tanking.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

It's not even about relitigating DLO.

It's about revisiting the initial goal (2 max FAs in 2018) and whether we will achieve it. If we don't, then we don't. If they do it, we should all applaud Magic for his vision and balls.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
LakerLand247 wrote:
They nailed it alright by gifting a top 3 pick to Boston.


How did they do that? Get your facts straight. That was a Mitch and Jim trade that was done way before Magic and Rob got here! That pick has been traded and re-traded and the Laker have nothing to do with that.


They do control how many ping pong balls Bos/Phi will have with that pick in June. Magic and Rob did ok but the fact is they are still putting out a crappy brand of basketball. We have already seen reports they turned down a Nance for A.Bradley trade which would've helped this team tremendously this season. They never bothered to sign a vet PG to help with Ball's development. This is subjective on my part but Magic seems to be meddling in Luke's rotations too...

I won't even go into how Magic overhyped Ball putting alot of pressure on the kid coming into the league or how he and Rob couldn't hold their cards close to the vest on this entire 2 max plan even though the thought of it is clearly distracting the current members of the team.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

The ideal plan would (and hopefully can) be for this team, behind the inspired play of Lonzo/BI/Kuz/Jules, etc. to win 35 games, look feisty and 1-2 key pieces away from being a really good team.

Then said max FAs happily join this team.

I don't know if we're going to win 30 games, and whether we will sell off assets at the trade deadline either. If we win 27 games, is it that much of a difference (aside from "moral" victories that have been strewn across this season?).

We just need to be honest. The stated goals were pretty clear and it's more than fair to hold Magic to that standard.
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