Are we really that dependant on Lonzo?
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ReaListik
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

Like others have said the biggest problem is that we have a G-League team trying to compete against NBA caliber talent. Lonzo’s absence hurts to some degree but not THAT much, he himself isn’t playing very well certainly not well enough to be considered as being a big difference maker. It will help to get him back running the offense.

1.) Luke is and was always overrated, but no other coach is going to get much more success out of these guys. Scouting and getting legit talent or at least potential is a big deficit for the organization. Much respect for San Antonio for mastering that. Wish the Lakers could.

2.)The roster is G-League
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Ball will be returning for Home games against Charlotte, Atlanta, and Sacramento....that will be great for narrative.


Double-digit home losses at home against non-playoff teams like the Clippers & Grizzlies, and losing by double digits in 6 out of 7 games overall are why that narrative will have existed in the first place.

This team is spiraling right now and if they right the ship with Lonzo coming back, he'll rightfully get a lot of the credit.


we can agree on he will get the credit, and I have little doubt you will be doing your part to ensure he receives the credit. What if we lose 2 out of the 3 games....or get beat badly in one of them? Will it be "I guess Lonzo really was not the issue", or will it be "rust" and "takes time to reintegrate"?

It's 3 home games against Charlotte (4-13 Away), Atlanta (3-16 Away), and Sacramento (6-14 Away)....the odds are we would show better with or without Ball.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject:

It doesn't help when his backups are D-Leaguers or out of position.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

ReaListik wrote:
Like others have said the biggest problem is that we have a G-League team trying to compete against NBA caliber talent. Lonzo’s absence hurts to some degree but not THAT much, he himself isn’t playing very well certainly not well enough to be considered as being a big difference maker. It will help to get him back running the offense.

1.) Luke is and was always overrated, but no other coach is going to get much more success out of these guys. Scouting and getting legit talent or at least potential is a big deficit for the organization. Much respect for San Antonio for mastering that. Wish the Lakers could.

2.)The roster is G-League


how does a g-league roster take warriors to 2 overtimes and beats houston?
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LakersDC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.
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trablos
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
Like others have said the biggest problem is that we have a G-League team trying to compete against NBA caliber talent. Lonzo’s absence hurts to some degree but not THAT much, he himself isn’t playing very well certainly not well enough to be considered as being a big difference maker. It will help to get him back running the offense.

1.) Luke is and was always overrated, but no other coach is going to get much more success out of these guys. Scouting and getting legit talent or at least potential is a big deficit for the organization. Much respect for San Antonio for mastering that. Wish the Lakers could.

2.)The roster is G-League


how does a g-league roster take warriors to 2 overtimes and beats houston?

G-league is harsh. We clearly have some semblance of talent, but to me the issues are more mental. When we are engaged, switching, moving the ball, you see how focused we are and can at least compete with anybody. I think the losing may be a compounding effect in that our guys are losing some confidence and letting the losing get in their heads. They just have to completely forget about previous games and get back to playing with high energy and opportunities will fall into place.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
ReaListik wrote:
Like others have said the biggest problem is that we have a G-League team trying to compete against NBA caliber talent. Lonzo’s absence hurts to some degree but not THAT much, he himself isn’t playing very well certainly not well enough to be considered as being a big difference maker. It will help to get him back running the offense.

1.) Luke is and was always overrated, but no other coach is going to get much more success out of these guys. Scouting and getting legit talent or at least potential is a big deficit for the organization. Much respect for San Antonio for mastering that. Wish the Lakers could.

2.)The roster is G-League


how does a g-league roster take warriors to 2 overtimes and beats houston?

G-league is harsh. We clearly have some semblance of talent, but to me the issues are more mental. When we are engaged, switching, moving the ball, you see how focused we are and can at least compete with anybody. I think the losing may be a compounding effect in that our guys are losing some confidence and letting the losing get in their heads. They just have to completely forget about previous games and get back to playing with high energy and opportunities will fall into place.


yea, leadership is needed and lonzo is out. bi's leadership is limited because he should not handle the ball often.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Quitting mostly shows itself on the defensive side of the ball. It does not take much to get an NBA player to try on offense. People can reach their own conclusions, but what I saw last night was a team full of guys not giving the effort needed or even the effort shown earlier in the season on defense. Guys have to play defense for the team and each other....very few guys....very few actually have the pure internal desire to be great and recognized for their individual defense....so once they cease playing for each other.....I have no idea how to put that train back on the track. My assumption is since they make millions of dollars and the coach makes millions of dollars....that ability should be part of their resume.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.
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LakersDC
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Quitting mostly shows itself on the defensive side of the ball. It does not take much to get an NBA player to try on offense. People can reach their own conclusions, but what I saw last night was a team full of guys not giving the effort needed or even the effort shown earlier in the season on defense. Guys have to play defense for the team and each other....very few guys....very few actually have the pure internal desire to be great and recognized for their individual defense....so once they cease playing for each other.....I have no idea how to put that train back on the track. My assumption is since they make millions of dollars and the coach makes millions of dollars....that ability should be part of their resume.


The only players I could see quitting (assuming we're talking about their contract/playing time situations and not the losing streak in general) are JR and Clarkson. For Clarkson, it's hard to play worse D when you typically play no D, and Randle has been one of our best defensive players this year. I agree that our team D has been a bit lacking, but our help D and rotations/switches have been pretty bad all year. In that sense, while Hart is a very capable individual defender, we've missed KCP's presence as he spends time in the pen.

To be clear, I do think the losing is taking a toll overall on the whole team, but I don't think guys are giving up/tanking in response to the FO situation.


Last edited by LakersDC on Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AshesToAshes
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.


so you deny that during the recent slide with 2 starters out (our only real PG and our ex-allstar C) people have not ignored the injuries and gone straight to seizing the opportunity and bashing luke and FO?

all the while the team has only slid back into where they were projected. Meaning previous to injuries, luke had them over-achieving and the FO moves actually had a big positive impact.

cherry on top being the JC/JR lobbyists were proven wrong that these guys limited minutes were "holding us back".
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.


so you deny that during the recent slide with 2 starters out (our only real PG and our ex-allstar C) people have not ignored the injuries and gone straight to seizing the opportunity and bashing luke and FO?

That you thought an 11-19 record was a sign the FO and Luke were doing exceedingly well.
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AshesToAshes
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.


so you deny that during the recent slide with 2 starters out (our only real PG and our ex-allstar C) people have not ignored the injuries and gone straight to seizing the opportunity and bashing luke and FO?

That you thought an 11-19 record was a sign the FO and Luke were doing exceedingly well.


11-19 after a single offseason, and a couple months into their first season?

considering they walked into a situation that 80% of front offices would have been completely stuck and stood pat?

How many teams can change their culture within an offseason?

these guys have done a great job. Even nitpickers use hopeful future hindsight to justify their gripes.

The changes/improvements in guys like ingram and jr are proof that at minimum we no longer have a negligent bball ops team. That alone equals exceedingly well in any franchise.

Even your own attitude, where you see potential, backed by hope and positivity is a result of the current FO. If Jimbo was still around you'd likely be happy with any improvement and already written off that Foston will get a great pick becuase our rookies aren't developing. Your attititude/disappointment is proof of their exceeding good performance so far.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.


so you deny that during the recent slide with 2 starters out (our only real PG and our ex-allstar C) people have not ignored the injuries and gone straight to seizing the opportunity and bashing luke and FO?

That you thought an 11-19 record was a sign the FO and Luke were doing exceedingly well.


11-19 after a single offseason, and a couple months into their first season?

considering they walked into a situation that 80% of front offices would have been completely stuck and stood pat?

How many teams can change their culture within an offseason?

these guys have done a great job. Even nitpickers use hopeful future hindsight to justify their gripes.

The changes/improvements in guys like ingram and jr are proof that at minimum we no longer have a negligent bball ops team. That alone equals exceedingly well in any franchise.

Even your own attitude, where you see potential, backed by hope and positivity is a result of the current FO. If Jimbo was still around you'd likely be happy with any improvement and already written off that Foston will get a great pick becuase our rookies aren't developing. Your attititude/disappointment is proof of their exceeding good performance so far.



yup the draft was amazing.
2 potential stars with kuz already averaging near 20ppg and ball already rebounding and playing better d than expected.
hart is a player also.
cannot complain about their moves.
now play the rookies more.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Randle is now putting up numbers, but he stopped playing D the minute he got his starting job back and the Lakers are back to to quitting and losing by huge margins. But hey, look at Randle's numbers. Him and JC are just me first gunners. They could care less if we lose as long as they get to score points. Maybe Luke knew something that a lot of us didn't. JR and JC are not starting material.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.


so you deny that during the recent slide with 2 starters out (our only real PG and our ex-allstar C) people have not ignored the injuries and gone straight to seizing the opportunity and bashing luke and FO?

That you thought an 11-19 record was a sign the FO and Luke were doing exceedingly well.


11-19 after a single offseason, and a couple months into their first season?

considering they walked into a situation that 80% of front offices would have been completely stuck and stood pat?

How many teams can change their culture within an offseason?

these guys have done a great job. Even nitpickers use hopeful future hindsight to justify their gripes.

The changes/improvements in guys like ingram and jr are proof that at minimum we no longer have a negligent bball ops team. That alone equals exceedingly well in any franchise.

Even your own attitude, where you see potential, backed by hope and positivity is a result of the current FO. If Jimbo was still around you'd likely be happy with any improvement and already written off that Foston will get a great pick becuase our rookies aren't developing. Your attititude/disappointment is proof of their exceeding good performance so far.



yup the draft was amazing.
2 potential stars with kuz already averaging near 20ppg and ball already rebounding and playing better d than expected.
hart is a player also.
cannot complain about their moves.
now play the rookies more.


"Rebuilding" only begins when you get players worth rebuilding around. This is Year One, as far as I'm concerned.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject:

AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AshesToAshes wrote:
Liger24Zero wrote:
ingle wrote:
We are such a dumb team collectively that when our floor general goes out the team dissolves into playing 2k MyTeam type ball.


LOL! True.


An inexperienced team can quickly become dependant on the smallest form of leadership.

It's all positive. The only negative is that they haven't achieved a record that surpasses projections (boohoo for the delirious off-season dreamers).

Then you have the haters to ignore whom all point to luke and the FO while completely ignoring that our ex-all-star C and future franchise PG were both hurt during a slide.

But none of them will admit that their "opinion" of JR / JC were a bit too optimistic considering the recent slide was their opportunity to be proven right all along. They weren't good enough to win with more minutes and maybe Luke has just cause to have limited them WHILE INCREASING THEIR VALUE (which is actually the best thing for their personal careers).

Aka, therefore, as an owner, Luke and the FO has done exceeding well.

This is insane to me.


so you deny that during the recent slide with 2 starters out (our only real PG and our ex-allstar C) people have not ignored the injuries and gone straight to seizing the opportunity and bashing luke and FO?

That you thought an 11-19 record was a sign the FO and Luke were doing exceedingly well.


11-19 after a single offseason, and a couple months into their first season?

considering they walked into a situation that 80% of front offices would have been completely stuck and stood pat?

How many teams can change their culture within an offseason?

these guys have done a great job. Even nitpickers use hopeful future hindsight to justify their gripes.

The changes/improvements in guys like ingram and jr are proof that at minimum we no longer have a negligent bball ops team. That alone equals exceedingly well in any franchise.

Even your own attitude, where you see potential, backed by hope and positivity is a result of the current FO. If Jimbo was still around you'd likely be happy with any improvement and already written off that Foston will get a great pick becuase our rookies aren't developing. Your attititude/disappointment is proof of their exceeding good performance so far.

This is also insane to me.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Randle is now putting up numbers, but he stopped playing D the minute he got his starting job back and the Lakers are back to to quitting and losing by huge margins. But hey, look at Randle's numbers. Him and JC are just me first gunners. They could care less if we lose as long as they get to score points. Maybe Luke knew something that a lot of us didn't. JR and JC are not starting material.

When will he get the word that Ingram isn't starting material either?
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
When will he get the word that Ingram isn't starting material either?


your not high on Ingram? I was unaware.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
When will he get the word that Ingram isn't starting material either?


your not high on Ingram? I was unaware.

I should switch things up and post more Zubac hate. That pudgy, selfish, cherubic-faced bum - the Lakers will be much better off when he's traded!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Randle is now putting up numbers, but he stopped playing D the minute he got his starting job back and the Lakers are back to to quitting and losing by huge margins. But hey, look at Randle's numbers. Him and JC are just me first gunners. They could care less if we lose as long as they get to score points. Maybe Luke knew something that a lot of us didn't. JR and JC are not starting material.

When will he get the word that Ingram isn't starting material either?


So you want to start Brewer over him?

BI may be a late blooming 20 year old but there is no question that the effort is always there on both sides of the ball. JC and JR not so much and they have been around a lot longer. They are what they are, low Bball IQ gunners who don't buy into team ball or playing D.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Ball will be returning for Home games against Charlotte, Atlanta, and Sacramento....that will be great for narrative.


Double-digit home losses at home against non-playoff teams like the Clippers & Grizzlies, and losing by double digits in 6 out of 7 games overall are why that narrative will have existed in the first place.

This team is spiraling right now and if they right the ship with Lonzo coming back, he'll rightfully get a lot of the credit.


we can agree on he will get the credit, and I have little doubt you will be doing your part to ensure he receives the credit. What if we lose 2 out of the 3 games....or get beat badly in one of them? Will it be "I guess Lonzo really was not the issue", or will it be "rust" and "takes time to reintegrate"?

It's 3 home games against Charlotte (4-13 Away), Atlanta (3-16 Away), and Sacramento (6-14 Away)....the odds are we would show better with or without Ball.


As opposed to Memphis (3-12 Away at the time) or the Clippers (6-12 Away at the time) beating them by double digits?

As opposed to the stretch of @PHI, @CHA, @NY, @CLE, vs. GS, @HOU, @GS , vs POR that immediately preceded this stretch, where they went 3-5 and were competitive in every game?

Yeah, he'll deserve credit if they turn things around, and rightfully so.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Randle is now putting up numbers, but he stopped playing D the minute he got his starting job back and the Lakers are back to to quitting and losing by huge margins. But hey, look at Randle's numbers. Him and JC are just me first gunners. They could care less if we lose as long as they get to score points. Maybe Luke knew something that a lot of us didn't. JR and JC are not starting material.

When will he get the word that Ingram isn't starting material either?


So you want to start Brewer over him?

BI may be a late blooming 20 year old but there is no question that the effort is always there on both sides of the ball. JC and JR not so much and they have been around a lot longer. They are what they are, low Bball IQ gunners who don't buy into team ball or playing D.

There should be a lot more questions about his effort. He floats a lot, and I don't know if that's an issue of confidence, awareness, or disinterest or perhaps all three.

I think he's also demonstrated tendencies of a low-BBIQ gunner when he doesn't completely go into his shell for long stretches. I put that on the front office and coaching staff, but he's younger than JC/JR and has time to break bad habits.

Once Ball's back, I'd start Kuzma at SF and see how he adjusts. I'd also lean towards going small and starting Hart at SF. In both cases the Lakers would get better spacing and rebounding from the position with less ball stoppage, which could help offset the drop-off on defense. Ingram can still do his hero ball routine to close out games.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
I disagree that we are losing because guys are quitting. At first, it sounded plausible, given the FO and want for 2 superstars next year, but when you look at both personal situations and performance, it proves this not to be the case.

The guy most likely to quit would be JR, but JR has been playing more since Zo went out (more tied to the recent team meeting/Brook being out) and has put up his best numbers this year recently. Kuz has been Kuz - super aggressive, but getting worse shots without Zo. BI has been erratic, but he has no reason to quit. Clarkson may be the only one that could be showing some quit in him, but his play has been typical Clarkson so I don't think that's the case. KCP is playing for a contract next year, and frankly he hasn't played any different since Zo went out.

We're a team without a good backup PG and no structure (e.g. we don't have defined roles). A lot of guys are trying to "get theirs" (with the exception of BI who inconsistently become too passive), but that hasn't really changed since Zo left. It is super apparent when we have the last shot of any quarter. You can see that between BI, Clarkson, and Kuz, whenever these situations come up, there is confusion, which often leads to horrible shots. At one point, the team was deferring to BI, but after a bunch of situations where he'd drive into traffic and get stripped/blocked, confusion has returned.


Randle is now putting up numbers, but he stopped playing D the minute he got his starting job back and the Lakers are back to to quitting and losing by huge margins. But hey, look at Randle's numbers. Him and JC are just me first gunners. They could care less if we lose as long as they get to score points. Maybe Luke knew something that a lot of us didn't. JR and JC are not starting material.

When will he get the word that Ingram isn't starting material either?


So you want to start Brewer over him?

BI may be a late blooming 20 year old but there is no question that the effort is always there on both sides of the ball. JC and JR not so much and they have been around a lot longer. They are what they are, low Bball IQ gunners who don't buy into team ball or playing D.

There should be a lot more questions about his effort. He floats a lot, and I don't know if that's an issue of confidence, awareness, or disinterest or perhaps all three.

I think he's also demonstrated tendencies of a low-BBIQ gunner when he doesn't completely go into his shell for long stretches. I put that on the front office and coaching staff, but he's younger than JC/JR and has time to break bad habits.

Once Ball's back, I'd start Kuzma at SF and see how he adjusts. I'd also lean towards going small and starting Hart at SF. In both cases the Lakers would get better spacing and rebounding from the position with less ball stoppage, which could help offset the drop-off on defense. Ingram can still do his hero ball routine to close out games.


I'm going to start watching Ingram on defense because I feel like this narrative about Ingram going balls to the wall on defense is absolutely false, but I can't speak to it personally. I find it hard to believe someone with his measurables can have such a paltry stock rate (even though his block numbers have gone up) if that motor is there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:36 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
I'm going to start watching Ingram on defense because I feel like this narrative about Ingram going balls to the wall on defense is absolutely false, but I can't speak to it personally. I find it hard to believe someone with his measurables can have such a paltry stock rate (even though his block numbers have gone up) if that motor is there.


Have fun!
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