Hypothetical: Would you trade Lonzo or Ingram for a Top 5 Pick in 2018 Draft?
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DLaker
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:13 am    Post subject:

I won't trade somebody that show HoF potential for an unknown.

Lonzo is getting 7 reb 7 ast which is a very short list most of which are HOF (Oscar 6x, Magic 7x, Kidd 6x, MJ 1x) & future HOF (Westbrook 4x and Harden 1x), the only non HOF that did it are Fat Lever 3x and Darrell Walker 1X.

for Lonzo & Simmon to do it so early in there career shows me how good they can be as they grow stronger and more season in the NBA.

Same goes for Ingram, as he grows stonger and more consistent with his shot, he have a shot to be a superstar in the NBA. Both Lonzo and Ingram are just 20 yrs of age.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

Every lottery pick is a gamble with a few exceptions (like Lebron). For every Porzingis there are two or three Jabari Parker, Okafor, Wes Johnson types. With Lonzo and BI, they are both trending to be at least very good NBA players...Id rather have that then two more gambles. Would not trade either unless there was a Lebron level, sure shot type of guy we were going to get at #1.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject:

Hypothetically - No
Actuality - No

Although I'll never be a Lakers GM so it's all hypothetical, but my answer is still No.

I'm not trading either of these guys for the European Medowlark Lemon who's playing against the European Washington Generals.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
No on Lonzo. I'd trade Ingram for any lottery pick if that was a possibility.


🙄.....yeah and there's no agenda.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:15 pm    Post subject:

Quote:


Skills: Yes, a Tatum is more skilled right now. But you can see Ingram developing his skills from month to month. He gives quite a few guys the business already one-on-on. His drives are hard to stop without fouling and his midrange didn't look bad at all the last games. He is a late bloomer and still is able to create his own shot and gets more and more efficient.

It will take time. But how will opponents stop him in the future in the high-or low-post when they cannot push him around that much anymore and he can simply shoot right over them?

There is of course no guarantee that he reaches his ceiling. But his measurements are hard to ignore. I think of young Tracy McGrady when i see Ingram. McGrady was a non-factor in the first 2 or 3 years. Then he took off. Might happen with Ingram as well .... might not.


McGrady wasn't a non-factor for his 1st 2 or 3 years, and unlike Ingram had ball-handling and elite athleticism in spades. Why do you think Jerry West tried to trade for him?

And I can't buy the Tatum argument. Tatum is at a higher data point with 1 year less NBA experience. Dude is already a solid defender in the same line of Ball and Hart for pete's sake. Ingram right now, isn't. What makes you think Tatum can't learn month to month?

You see McGrady? Yeah, we just flat out see the game differently overall. McGrady on less wingspan had a more devastating steal/block rate than Ingram.
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mookielala
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't trade either one, but I also think no teams will want the trade. There's more allure in the potential of a draft pick, but it usually doesn't match the hype. Both BI and Zo are developing nicely. No reason to throw that away for a lottery -- literally a gamble.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject:

No.. smh.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:15 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:


Skills: Yes, a Tatum is more skilled right now. But you can see Ingram developing his skills from month to month. He gives quite a few guys the business already one-on-on. His drives are hard to stop without fouling and his midrange didn't look bad at all the last games. He is a late bloomer and still is able to create his own shot and gets more and more efficient.

It will take time. But how will opponents stop him in the future in the high-or low-post when they cannot push him around that much anymore and he can simply shoot right over them?

There is of course no guarantee that he reaches his ceiling. But his measurements are hard to ignore. I think of young Tracy McGrady when i see Ingram. McGrady was a non-factor in the first 2 or 3 years. Then he took off. Might happen with Ingram as well .... might not.


McGrady wasn't a non-factor for his 1st 2 or 3 years, and unlike Ingram had ball-handling and elite athleticism in spades. Why do you think Jerry West tried to trade for him?

And I can't buy the Tatum argument. Tatum is at a higher data point with 1 year less NBA experience. Dude is already a solid defender in the same line of Ball and Hart for pete's sake. Ingram right now, isn't. What makes you think Tatum can't learn month to month?

You see McGrady? Yeah, we just flat out see the game differently overall. McGrady on less wingspan had a more devastating steal/block rate than Ingram.

McGrady was an insane +4 BPM player at age 19 and proceeded to post over +6 BPM on average over the next eight seasons before injuries prematurely ended his career. Pre-injury Paul George, for comparison, peaked around 4.5 BPM. I think George's career is a pretty optimistic projection for Ingram - peak McGrady is pure fantasy.

As an aside, Mike, we were so spoiled with Kobe and McGrady. When I was growing up watching those two guys I took em for granted, and I haven't seen any skilled NBA wing with the kind of Gumby-like body control McGrady and Kobe had. Lavine is the closest, but he doesn't use it to attack the rim in the half-court and lacks the court awareness those two had to really maximize his athletic gifts. It's a damn shame.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject:

^Yeah we were. It was stupid easy to pick those guys out in the draft. Kobe, McGrady, Gerald Wallace, etc.

I mean, if your approach is still 6'6"+ dude, elite athlete, stud ball-handler, that STILL goes a long way. Everything else gets fixed later. I guess what people don't realize was how McGrady was more Pippen/Odom in his game early on, before the scoring bonanza kicked in.
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Top 3 Pick: Fultz, Ball, Tatum
LAL ended w 3 of 4 guys of my '17 Draft list.
Fultz, Ball, Tatum, Jackson, DSJ, Monk, Markkanen, Collins, Kennard, Mitchell

https://hoop-math.com/
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:


Skills: Yes, a Tatum is more skilled right now. But you can see Ingram developing his skills from month to month. He gives quite a few guys the business already one-on-on. His drives are hard to stop without fouling and his midrange didn't look bad at all the last games. He is a late bloomer and still is able to create his own shot and gets more and more efficient.

It will take time. But how will opponents stop him in the future in the high-or low-post when they cannot push him around that much anymore and he can simply shoot right over them?

There is of course no guarantee that he reaches his ceiling. But his measurements are hard to ignore. I think of young Tracy McGrady when i see Ingram. McGrady was a non-factor in the first 2 or 3 years. Then he took off. Might happen with Ingram as well .... might not.


McGrady wasn't a non-factor for his 1st 2 or 3 years, and unlike Ingram had ball-handling and elite athleticism in spades. Why do you think Jerry West tried to trade for him?

And I can't buy the Tatum argument. Tatum is at a higher data point with 1 year less NBA experience. Dude is already a solid defender in the same line of Ball and Hart for pete's sake. Ingram right now, isn't. What makes you think Tatum can't learn month to month?

You see McGrady? Yeah, we just flat out see the game differently overall. McGrady on less wingspan had a more devastating steal/block rate than Ingram.

McGrady was an insane +4 BPM player at age 19 and proceeded to post over +6 BPM on average over the next eight seasons before injuries prematurely ended his career. Pre-injury Paul George, for comparison, peaked around 4.5 BPM. I think George's career is a pretty optimistic projection for Ingram - peak McGrady is pure fantasy.

As an aside, Mike, we were so spoiled with Kobe and McGrady. When I was growing up watching those two guys I took em for granted, and I haven't seen any skilled NBA wing with the kind of Gumby-like body control McGrady and Kobe had. Lavine is the closest, but he doesn't use it to attack the rim in the half-court and lacks the court awareness those two had to really maximize his athletic gifts. It's a damn shame.

I'm looking at T-Mac's +1.8 OBPM as a sophomore with his 50.4% TS%/ 15.0% TO% couldn't figure out how it was so high... Then I look at his ORBD%... 12.4%

3 guards/ wings ever accomplished that.
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davidse
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject:

I'd trade anyone for Doncic.

Heck, I'd probably trade both Ball and Ingram for Doncic.

Ingram for Ayton or Bagley. maybe Bamba too because roster balance is part of the consideration.

That's about it.

(as of today anyway)
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