|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22849
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Drifts wrote: | I loved Lou Williams and wanted him to stay to guide the young guys...
but Russell fans hated him and wanted him gone, because they claimed that he was taking away previous minutes from their beloved Russell.... LOL
/truth |
LOL! Completely missing the big picture, blinded by your hate for D'Lo. It doesn't have to be D'Lo, it could have been KP, OKafor or even Mudiay and I would have wanted the Lakers to give more time to the kids. You waste time with a no D career gunner who may get you to 30 wins and lose out on Ball??? I don't agree with some of the things Maginka has done, but I wholeheartedly agree with this "tanking" trade. They wanted to secure the top 3 pick.
/100% |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
AC Green's V-Card
Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 3063
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened.
Nevertheless, I'm a proponent of chaos theory/the butterfly effect. Things worked out for the best (drafting all our rookies) with the trade. Even knowing what I know now, I do that trade 10/10 times. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AC Green's V-Card
Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 3063
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
Yes, I'm aware.
http://i.imgur.com/d4qzwj4.jpg |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
Yes, I'm aware.
http://i.imgur.com/d4qzwj4.jpg |
I wish you safe travels on your search to find a point. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saetarubia
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 6208
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They wanted to tank. Who knows we might not have kept our pick had we kept Lou. Finishing 3rd from bottom gave us Lonzo.
_________________
Showtime 2.0 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Josh Hart is a damn bargain, and in our future for the next 5 years. People would really rather have had one more season of Lou? |
Why assume we couldn’t have had both? |
Who did you want to trade for another late first round pick? |
Pretty much anyone |
VLF, Maybe I'm the last to notice, but you have officially taken the mantle of LG's resident cynic. Jim and Mitch thank you for your loyalty. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Can we change the title to: who deserves credit for the Lou trade? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
I don't think Lou's effect can be measured simply by comparing win/loss records after the trade. There's lots of reasons why the win/loss record could have been the same, especially since we were heading into the 2nd half of the seasons where tons of teams had already given up and were trying to tank and/or playoff teams resting their first team players.
Given that opponent resistance was not as intense, it could be argued that having Lou would have resulted in the Lakers improving their 2nd half record instead of just maintaining the same percentage. Thus keeping Lou would have made a difference in getting Ball.
At the end of the day, no one really will ever know what would have happened if we had kept Lou. All we have to go by is whether the decision was correct at the time for the purposes of helping us tank, and I think the overwhelming consensus was that it was. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AC Green's V-Card
Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 3063
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
Yes, I'm aware.
http://i.imgur.com/d4qzwj4.jpg |
I wish you safe travels on your search to find a point. |
Our winning percentage with Lou was 32.7%. Our winning percentage without Lou was 29.1%. The team did get worse, but it's not just winning percentages. The difference between 3rd/4th place was 2 wins, and the difference between 3rd/5th place was 3 wins. Lou could've easily helped the Lakers enough to eek out some victories considering we had four losses of 5 points or fewer after he was dealt away.
Regardless, everything worked out perfectly for us. I'm not taking the risk of losing Lonzo or Hart on their current rookie deals for 1 1/2 years of Lou. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kevin61 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | Josh Hart is a damn bargain, and in our future for the next 5 years. People would really rather have had one more season of Lou? |
Why assume we couldn’t have had both? |
Who did you want to trade for another late first round pick? |
Pretty much anyone |
VLF, Maybe I'm the last to notice, but you have officially taken the mantle of LG's resident cynic. Jim and Mitch thank you for your loyalty. |
😂 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
singlecamVTEC
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 1473
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7156
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
Yes, I'm aware.
http://i.imgur.com/d4qzwj4.jpg |
I wish you safe travels on your search to find a point. |
Our winning percentage with Lou was 32.7%. Our winning percentage without Lou was 29.1%. The team did get worse, but it's not just winning percentages. The difference between 3rd/4th place was 2 wins, and the difference between 3rd/5th place was 3 wins. Lou could've easily helped the Lakers enough to eek out some victories considering we had four losses of 5 points or fewer after he was dealt away.
Regardless, everything worked out perfectly for us. I'm not taking the risk of losing Lonzo or Hart on their current rookie deals for 1 1/2 years of Lou. |
Great Post. Lets not forget that one could have EASILY made an argument that Lou was the teams MVP before he got traded. To say we were as good without him is not correct. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
King Randle
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| epak wrote: | | Can we change the title to: who deserves credit for the Lou trade? |
Absolutely. It was a great trade and honestly we need to make a trade similar to this by the trade deadline. It would be great to get a first round pick in this draft. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FanOfFour
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1761
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| King Randle wrote: | | epak wrote: | | Can we change the title to: who deserves credit for the Lou trade? |
Absolutely. It was a great trade and honestly we need to make a trade similar to this by the trade deadline. It would be great to get a first round pick in this draft. |
This. This thread is ridiculous. It was a great trade on a number of levels. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wilkes52
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2415
Location: Far from home
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Crazy post, OP.
Keeping Lou would have impeded the main goal of the entire season (i.e., testing and development of the intended Laker core.) The club needed him to go, though he's a nice but insignificant player in both mid- and long- term view of the club.
_________________
“These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
Yes, I'm aware.
http://i.imgur.com/d4qzwj4.jpg |
I wish you safe travels on your search to find a point. |
Our winning percentage with Lou was 32.7%. Our winning percentage without Lou was 29.1%. The team did get worse, but it's not just winning percentages. The difference between 3rd/4th place was 2 wins, and the difference between 3rd/5th place was 3 wins. Lou could've easily helped the Lakers enough to eek out some victories considering we had four losses of 5 points or fewer after he was dealt away.
Regardless, everything worked out perfectly for us. I'm not taking the risk of losing Lonzo or Hart on their current rookie deals for 1 1/2 years of Lou. |
OK, first I was fine with the Lou trade. However, when evaluating the Lou trade the only return I consider is the pick we got for him.
I don't credit the trade with affecting our ultimate winning percentage and being a factor in getting the #2 pick. There's no clear evidence it did, and while it theoretically could have it all's woulda-coulda-shoulda speculative stuff. So if someone wants to say the Lou trade helped us get Ball all I can do is shrug. That may be true, it may not. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
Are you kidding me? I know I am late to the party but the OP is lamenting the Lou Williams trade? Huh? I guess people have short memories.
Sure Lou is a good shooter and we need those, but the guy always gave up more than he scored on the defensive end and he ruined the flow of the offense.
Does not the fact that Lou has been traded about a million times indicate that he is not a great player.
Also we got either Kuzma or Hart/Big Mamba from the trade so well played by Magic. I don't miss Lou Williams at all. Jordan/Bowie level debacle? My goodness, you are just ruining your credibility there with that. Please don't.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AC Green's V-Card
Star Player
Joined: 09 Aug 2012
Posts: 3063
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | AC Green's V-Card wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RI Laker wrote: | | This trade was the best trade we have made since Pau. Helped with the tank which allowed us to get Lonzo. So essentially, we got Lonzo, Hart, and Bryant for Lou. |
Our winning percentage when Lou was on the team was roughly the same as our winning percentage after we traded him, so I'm not sure if the trade affected our final record or draft position. So I wouldn't credit the trade to getting Ball, even if that was a goal. |
Please point me in the direction where you, or anyone on record, predicted that the Lakers record would be the same with and without Lou Williams before or just after the trade happened. |
I am not talking about predictions of what would happen. I am talking about what actually did happen. |
Yes, I'm aware.
http://i.imgur.com/d4qzwj4.jpg |
I wish you safe travels on your search to find a point. |
Our winning percentage with Lou was 32.7%. Our winning percentage without Lou was 29.1%. The team did get worse, but it's not just winning percentages. The difference between 3rd/4th place was 2 wins, and the difference between 3rd/5th place was 3 wins. Lou could've easily helped the Lakers enough to eek out some victories considering we had four losses of 5 points or fewer after he was dealt away.
Regardless, everything worked out perfectly for us. I'm not taking the risk of losing Lonzo or Hart on their current rookie deals for 1 1/2 years of Lou. |
OK, first I was fine with the Lou trade. However, when evaluating the Lou trade the only return I consider is the pick we got for him.
I don't credit the trade with affecting our ultimate winning percentage and being a factor in getting the #2 pick. There's no clear evidence it did, and while it theoretically could have it all's woulda-coulda-shoulda speculative stuff. So if someone wants to say the Lou trade helped us get Ball all I can do is shrug. That may be true, it may not. |
So in your mind, the Lakers end up with the exact same record (7-17) with Lou playing backup PG instead of Tyler Ennis? I happen to disagree with that assessment, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mamba Mentality
Star Player
Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 3078
Location: The Left Coast
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
We must have really hit rock bottom if we're thinking that Lou would have saved the Lakers lmao 
And comparing to Sam Bowie? Please... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AC Green's V-Card wrote: |
So in your mind, the Lakers end up with the exact same record (7-17) with Lou playing backup PG instead of Tyler Ennis? I happen to disagree with that assessment, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
Who knows? The last 24 games Lou played for us before we traded him we went 7-17. I am not sure why people assume having him around would cause some dramatic change.
In our final 24 games, most of the losses were by 10-15 points or more, and only a few were by 5 points or less, so it's hard for me to see Lou having a big impact on the wins-losses
Is it possible that if we kept Lou we would have won two more games, and then lost the tie breaker with Philly, and then the pingpong balls would have fallen differently? Sure. It just doesn't seem so likely that I am going to credit the Lou trade for the #2 pick. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="activeverb"] | AC Green's V-Card wrote: |
So in your mind, the Lakers end up with the exact same record (7-17) with Lou playing backup PG instead of Tyler Ennis? I happen to disagree with that assessment, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
But here's another piece of all the what if-ing. For those final games, the Lakers kept Nick Young, Deng and Mozgov on the bench, ostensibly to develop the youth, but really to tank. If we didn't trade Williams, it's likely that we would have kept him on the bench too. So I can't really give the trade credit for giving us the number to pick.
Last edited by activeverb on Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7156
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Considering Lou was arguably our best player before he was traded, it is only logical that we would have had more W's had he not been dealt. To say otherwise is not being truthful. Lets not beat up a dead horse over this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| RI Laker wrote: | | Considering Lou was arguably our best player before he was traded, it is only logical that we would have had more W's had he not been dealt. To say otherwise is not being truthful. Lets not beat up a dead horse over this. |
At the time of the trade, as I just said above, we sat all our vets for the rest of the season. It is only logical to assume that if Williams was still around they would have sat him down too. After all, why would you sit young but not Williams? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
