Lou Williams should still be on this team
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
Listen, The Clippers are done! They need to start a rebuild. They aren't good enough to beat any team in the playoffs if the was able to get there.

They aren't bad enough to get a high lottery pick either. Why? because Lou is doing for them, what Magic didn't want him doing for us, winning enough games to make good enough to just be outside of the playoffs and not bad enough to get lorry picks to rebuild.

In the long run, Lou is gonna hurt the Clippers. He needs to be on a team that is competing and his scoring off the bench would be critical. If we get 2 max players this summer, I would love to try and sign Lou back but, at the time that he did it, Magic made the right move.

I wonder how much pull West has there, and if he's advocating this transition rebuild.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
activeverb wrote:

All right, for some reason, you want to credit the Russell trade for Hart and the Williams trade for Kuzma, even though in reality it was the opposite. Not sure why, but whatever ...


Because if we didn’t make the Russel trade we would still have gotten Kuzma.




Kwai Chang Caine sits at the feet of his master at the Shaoline Temple.

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Kwai Chang Caine: You were hungry. And now you have no blanket.

Kung Fu Master: You are wrong. I have my blanket.

Kwai Chang Caine: But you traded it. How can you have it?

Kung Fu Master: If I didn't trade my blanket, I would have traded something else for the rice.

Kwai Chang Caine: Um, OK ...

Kung Fu Master: Therefore, I still have my blanket and the rice.

Kwai Chang Caine: But your blanket is gone!

Kung Fu Master: No. It is here in my mind. Therefore it is on my body! My belly is full and my body is warm.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject:

Daphanabe wrote:
unleasHell wrote:
Yeah, Lou sucks, he only scored 50 tonight as the Griffin-less Clippers beat the Steph-less Warriors...!


Not sure many were insinuating that Lou sucked. Just that trading him was the right move as it solidified the tank that got us Ball and at the same time got us an asset that was converted into Hart and Bryant. Have to give value to get value.


He could score and get you a win every now and then. BUT if Lou was not putting up 40 points his ball hoggery would usually cause you to lose because he disrupted the flow of the offense to such a large degree by taking so many shots without passing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?


I explained it above. Lou disrupts the offense. When he is hitting a good % the team can get by and pull out some improbable victories. But when he has an average scoring game his high volume of shooting and lack of passing destroys the offensive rhythm for the rest of the team.

Throw in a way below average defensive presence and you see why Lou continues to score a lot but continues to get traded.

IMO his ISO tendencies were especially bad for a young Laker team. They got used to watching him dominate the ball and became passive on the offensive end.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?


I explained it above. Lou disrupts the offense. When he is hitting a good % the team can get by and pull out some improbable victories. But when he has an average scoring game his high volume of shooting and lack of passing destroys the offensive rhythm for the rest of the team.

Throw in a way below average defensive presence and you see why Lou continues to score a lot but continues to get traded.

IMO his ISO tendencies were especially bad for a young Laker team. They got used to watching him dominate the ball and became passive on the offensive end.
His assists this year are 5 a game on average with the Clippers. Seems like that's reliable enough when you play like an All Star sixth man. Which guard would you play instead of him with assists in mind?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?


First, Lou Williams has never made an all-star team.

Second, the Rockets traded Williams to the Clippers for a player who was not only an all-star but a future Hall of Famer, Chris Paul.

Third, the trade is largely responsible for a significant boost in Houston's winning percentage.

Fourth, the Lakers dumped Williams because (1) they were dumping and benching veterans to try to tank to get a better draft pick, (2) the Lakers were rebuilding and draft picks were more important than old veterans.

Fifth, the Lakers might be a little better with Williams right now, but we'd still suck and not make the playoffs. I'd prefer to play young guys who might be something in the future when the team is better.

Sixth, Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Seventh, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Eigth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Ninth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Tenth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject:

^ Lonzo Ball
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
^ Lonzo Ball
Here is my reply to that: https://www.foxsports.com/west/story/los-angeles-clippers-defeat-golden-state-warriors-lou-williams-50-points-011118
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
^ Lonzo Ball
Here is my reply to that: https://www.foxsports.com/west/story/los-angeles-clippers-defeat-golden-state-warriors-lou-williams-50-points-011118


I totally conceded that when Lou is hot, he can beat some improbable opponents. It is the nights when he still dominates the ball but shoots a poor percentage that his teams are in trouble. He's a career 42% shooter, so more often than not he is going to hurt your team's efficiency.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject:

I don't know if Lou is an all-star this season or not, but he is putting up numbers like one. Regardless, whether its Hart or Kuzma, I take both over Lou Williams because we're talking about 2-3 years down the line, not this season.

In hindsight had we known that Lou was going to play like this could we have gotten more for him? Sure. However, the market value last year for him was a 1st round pick, which, btw, isn't nothing in today's market. Draft picks are super valuable these days.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject:

He was a great deal at 7m/year. Just didn't fit in with the tanking/rebuilding the Lakers were embarking on.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I don't know if Lou is an all-star this season or not, but he is putting up numbers like one. Regardless, whether its Hart or Kuzma, I take both over Lou Williams because we're talking about 2-3 years down the line, not this season.

In hindsight had we known that Lou was going to play like this could we have gotten more for him? Sure. However, the market value last year for him was a 1st round pick, which, btw, isn't nothing in today's market. Draft picks are super valuable these days.


We started this season talking about the long run, a few years, but once the season takes off some revert to a win now mentality which is just not going to happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject:

These kids don't need training wheels anymore. Any vets we have should be at the end of the bench. Time to sink or swim.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?


First, Lou Williams has never made an all-star team.

Second, the Rockets traded Williams to the Clippers for a player who was not only an all-star but a future Hall of Famer, Chris Paul.

Third, the trade is largely responsible for a significant boost in Houston's winning percentage.

Fourth, the Lakers dumped Williams because (1) they were dumping and benching veterans to try to tank to get a better draft pick, (2) the Lakers were rebuilding and draft picks were more important than old veterans.

Fifth, the Lakers might be a little better with Williams right now, but we'd still suck and not make the playoffs. I'd prefer to play young guys who might be something in the future when the team is better.

Sixth, Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Seventh, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Eigth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Ninth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Tenth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.


Can we end this ridiculous thread with this. Outstanding Active!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject:

deal wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
I don't know if Lou is an all-star this season or not, but he is putting up numbers like one. Regardless, whether its Hart or Kuzma, I take both over Lou Williams because we're talking about 2-3 years down the line, not this season.

In hindsight had we known that Lou was going to play like this could we have gotten more for him? Sure. However, the market value last year for him was a 1st round pick, which, btw, isn't nothing in today's market. Draft picks are super valuable these days.


We started this season talking about the long run, a few years, but once the season takes off some revert to a win now mentality which is just not going to happen.
Shooting guard Williams was shipped off to the playoff-bound Houston Rockets in exchange for small forward Brewer and a future first-round draft pick. I think the Lakers should have made certain talented players untouchable in the rebuilding.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?


First, Lou Williams has never made an all-star team.

Second, the Rockets traded Williams to the Clippers for a player who was not only an all-star but a future Hall of Famer, Chris Paul.

Third, the trade is largely responsible for a significant boost in Houston's winning percentage.

Fourth, the Lakers dumped Williams because (1) they were dumping and benching veterans to try to tank to get a better draft pick, (2) the Lakers were rebuilding and draft picks were more important than old veterans.

Fifth, the Lakers might be a little better with Williams right now, but we'd still suck and not make the playoffs. I'd prefer to play young guys who might be something in the future when the team is better.

Sixth, Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Seventh, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Eigth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Ninth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Tenth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.


Can we end this ridiculous thread with this. Outstanding Active!
Maybe we can start a new thread how Randle has 3 months left as a Laker before he is traded for a second round pick.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject:

Are we seriously debating this? Lou could score 60 next game, and it still doesn't change the fact that he didn't fit our timeline (and arguably takes away from other players' development) and we got an amazing young prospect in Kuz out of the deal.

Compare a 31-year old Lou who's about to get PAID this offseason (would you be willing to waste one max spot on him? ) to a 22-year old Kuz who we have on a rookie deal for 3 more years after this season, with a reasonable, relatively cost-controlled extension to follow. Which takes us through his prime years, as opposed to Lou who will likely decline through his next contract.

As fun as it is to watch Lou go to work when he's got it going, I would never give up all of the above for a few scoring outbursts and extra wins this season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject:

Some of you are overrating Lou. He was not worth keeping at the expense of losing a top 3 pick (Lonzo), and the actual pick we got for trading him (Hart). You guys do know that Lonzo wouldn't be on the team if we kept Lou right? Our lineup this year would have been:

DLO
BI
Deng
Randle
Moz

And we would barely scrap to get 22 wins. Yeah, that sounds great.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
King Randle wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Trading a 6’1 ball stopping no defense bench scorer for Kyle Kuzma is a bad trade now?


Right now is there a difference?


God what a stupid comment.


Yes, Lou is a legit all star.
I love Lakersground it's why I have stayed on here for so many years. I understand the excitement of building for the future but you don't shed an All Star guard to a rival in your conference. The fact that Houston was stupid enough to trade him to the Clippers is also typical. My concern with the executive decision is that they had other players they could have moved and kept Lou Williams. The thought being there are not that many guards in the NBA and certainly not on the 2017-18 Laker team that can score like him. The argument that he plays poor defense and hurts the team is a poor argument. Why dump an All Star player that is a proven 6th man of the year. He could have anchored this team in many ways. Tell me why Josh Hart, Tyler Innis,KCP and Alex Caruso need more minutes then Lou?


First, Lou Williams has never made an all-star team.

Second, the Rockets traded Williams to the Clippers for a player who was not only an all-star but a future Hall of Famer, Chris Paul.

Third, the trade is largely responsible for a significant boost in Houston's winning percentage.

Fourth, the Lakers dumped Williams because (1) they were dumping and benching veterans to try to tank to get a better draft pick, (2) the Lakers were rebuilding and draft picks were more important than old veterans.

Fifth, the Lakers might be a little better with Williams right now, but we'd still suck and not make the playoffs. I'd prefer to play young guys who might be something in the future when the team is better.

Sixth, Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Seventh, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Eigth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Ninth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.

Tenth, , Lou Williams isn't an all-star.


Can we end this ridiculous thread with this. Outstanding Active!
Maybe we can start a new thread how Randle has 3 months left as a Laker before he is traded for a second round pick.



But how could we trade an all-star like Randle for a draft pick?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:43 pm    Post subject:

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/248556/Out-Of-Time-With-Lou-Williams
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Laker executive gets the blame for trading Lou Williams?

Jellojigglin wrote:
This has quietly become one of the worst personnel decisions in NBA history. Sam Bowie 1st round bad kind of decisions. This team could have really used his ability to put the ball in the basket.


Wrong -- With Lou and/or Nick you don't give maximum opportunities for the young guns to develop.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Laker executive gets the blame for trading Lou Williams?

JerryWest_44 wrote:
Jellojigglin wrote:
This has quietly become one of the worst personnel decisions in NBA history. Sam Bowie 1st round bad kind of decisions. This team could have really used his ability to put the ball in the basket.


Wrong -- With Lou and/or Nick you don't give maximum opportunities for the young guns to develop.



Ah, c'mon. Why is Jello the only one who recognizes that Lou Williams is the equivalent of Michael Jordan?

Lou is one of the all-time greats, and it's a total mystery why three different GMs have traded him in the last three years. I mean, this is guy who, in a mere 12 years in the league, has managed to play in a full 52 playoff games, where he was shot a blistering 38% from the field and 25% from the three point line. That's the kind of guy you want when the games matter.

They're not saying "Boo!" They're saying "GOAT!"
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Smart move by the clippers front office.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2753586-lou-williams-clippers-reportedly-discussed-contract-extension
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