NON-2 Max 2018 Summer Options
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject:

Not getting max FAs would be a blow, but not getting max FAs and blowing cap space on 3rd tier players on non-flexible, long-term deals would be the worse outcome. Basically Moz/Deng v.2.0.
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Lakeshow1843
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

You guys do realize at some point these young players have to get paid. It makes sense that magic realizes that there is a very small window with getting difference makers before luxury tax becomes a real issue. It really puzzles me how attached people are to players who have just really been part of just straight losing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
McCaw is an interesting target. I would look at high luxury tax paying teams who cannot keep RFA players.

I had a list somewhere of non-max FAs that I would consider on 1+1/2+1 deals, but flexibility is the key.

Maybe trade for Mirotic who is on a cost controlled deal.





McCaw does nothing for me. He's no better than the young guys we have on our team already. He looks better than he is on the Warriors team where everyone looks good.

The Mirotic trade I like that idea. Always liked his game and his shooting would be a huge plus.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Ekpe Udoh, who believe it or not was a #6 pick, was allowed to stroll.

And they traded Biedrins, an #11th pick, to get Iguodala.
Quote:


Udoh didn't exactly stroll. He was traded with Ellis to acquire Bogut and Jackson. Comparable to trading Randle for some quality vets.

Also Biedrins was traded in his 9th year with the GSW. At that time he was one of their highest paid players.

So neither is quite the same as what the Lakers are doing. But I do agree there are multiple options and "no one size fits all".

Lakers are unique in dynamics and personality. Going to be interesting to see how they handle this summer. As is being pointed out, this could be resolved in so many different ways.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject:

Lakeshow1843 wrote:
You guys do realize at some point these young players have to get paid. It makes sense that magic realizes that there is a very small window with getting difference makers before luxury tax becomes a real issue. It really puzzles me how attached people are to players who have just really been part of just straight losing.


So why the (bleep) did we tank?
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MJST
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

Season Plan Best Case Scenario

Lakers Get:
Houston's Tradable 2nd Round Pick
PJ Tucker
Ryan Anderson
Tarik Black
Trevor Ariza

Houston Gets:
Brook Lopez
KCP
Larry Nance Jr.

Followed by:

Lakers Get:
Tristan Thompson
Channing Frye
Cleveland's 2018 1st Round Pick (NOT the Nets Pick)

Cleveland Gets:
Ryan Anderson
PJ Tucker

Followed by:

Lakers Get:
DeMarcus Cousins

Pelicans Get:
Tristan Thompson
Cleveland's 2018 1st Round Pick
Houston's 2018 tradable 2nd round pick (or the Lakers Nuggets Pick)
Future Lakers 1st


Lakers post ASB go forward with their roster as follows

Starters:
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins

Bench:
Tyler Ennis
Jordan Clarkson
Trevor Ariza / Corey Brewer
Kyle Kuzma / Channing Frye
Ivica Zubac / Thomas Bryant / Tarik Black


Lakers have Cousins' Bird's Rights and can go over the Cap to sign him.

Corey Brewer, Channing Frye, Tarik Black, Trevor Ariza contracts end after the season.

The biggest thing is the Lakers having to re-sign DeMarcus Cousins in the off-season.

Due to having Cousins' Bird's Rights along with Randle's it makes it easier to pursue the 2nd "max" you're after. After stretching Deng.

Clarkson you only move IF you get confirmation from a second max (such as Paul George) that they're definitely coming. If not, you re-sign Cousins to the max and you move forward with the roster as it is but with Cousins at center.



That's the best case scenario though. So I wouldnt hold my breath about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakeshow1843 wrote:
You guys do realize at some point these young players have to get paid. It makes sense that magic realizes that there is a very small window with getting difference makers before luxury tax becomes a real issue. It really puzzles me how attached people are to players who have just really been part of just straight losing.


So why the (bleep) did we tank?


We didn't tank, we were just bad!
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject:

then you have no cap space when max FA are available.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Lakeshow1843 wrote:
You guys do realize at some point these young players have to get paid. It makes sense that magic realizes that there is a very small window with getting difference makers before luxury tax becomes a real issue. It really puzzles me how attached people are to players who have just really been part of just straight losing.


So why the (bleep) did we tank?
To draft a player talented enough so that we could attach him to a bad contract. Simple.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Quote:
If the FO does change course from the stated path of signing Max players to one of the others described above, then the hirings of Magic & Pelinka could be considered close to a failure. I don't think Jeanie & Magic are close to admitting that they have chosen a strategy that has failed.


This has been my biggest concern since the day Magic was hired....ego.

Being so committed to a specific plan that they are unable to deviate from it. They have painted themselves so far into a corner can they make reasonable decisions if it looks to be falling apart? Can they walk away from the table if a agent or GM demands too much? Can he face the media with a different plan?

Magic is an accomplished businessman. Respect him for all that he has done. But when it comes to the Lakers and his legacy as a GM will it be his weak spot? We have no idea how he will react when the brass ring is just out of his grasp. More like the Knick's I. Thomas or like the Rocket's Morey? We are about to find out.


For them to shift away from the two Max plan, then that would be a tacit admission of failure.


To a man with a hammer, everything is a nail.


I wouldn't assign that much blame to Magic because Jeanie brought him in to run things. If she wanted the organization to go in a specific direction different that the We are the Lakers, branding, exceptionalism, etc that it is on, then she should have brought in someone acclaimed in that type of basketball operations.

When they hired MDA as a coach, it was well known what his philosophies on offense were. If they had wanted somebody that would have been flexible and would design an offense to fit the roster, then they should have brought in somebody other than MDA.

The same can be said for Magic in regards to giving him control of basketball operations. His strengths and weakness in regards to basketball were well known.

If things can be fixed mostly with a Hammer (We are the Lakers, branding, exceptionalism, etc), then Jeanie did well putting Magic in charge of operations. If things are best solved with tools & methods rather than a Hammer, then Jeanie should have brought in the people best at those things instead of trying to get Magic to be something he isn't.


yinoma2001 wrote:
I just hope if we miss out on 2 max FAs, the Lakers FINALLY abandon this 2 max plan futility. Pursue 1 max, stock the team with capable players who fill out the team.

Of course, I'm also cautiously optimistic that we can nail the 2 max FA, but that's neither here nor there.




To a man with a hammer, everything is a nail.


Last edited by Bard207 on Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

give Michael Beasley a max deal....and everything left goes to Super Mario Hezonja
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject:

IMO this should be the last summer we aim for 2 max. Either we get them or we need to stop the delusion and aim at best, for 1 max + solid core of vets.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Quote:
Ekpe Udoh, who believe it or not was a #6 pick, was allowed to stroll.

And they traded Biedrins, an #11th pick, to get Iguodala.
Quote:


Udoh didn't exactly stroll. He was traded with Ellis to acquire Bogut and Jackson. Comparable to trading Randle for some quality vets.

Also Biedrins was traded in his 9th year with the GSW. At that time he was one of their highest paid players.

So neither is quite the same as what the Lakers are doing. But I do agree there are multiple options and "no one size fits all".

Lakers are unique in dynamics and personality. Going to be interesting to see how they handle this summer. As is being pointed out, this could be resolved in so many different ways.



I wasn't comparing it to the Lakers. I was simply responding to his contention that the Warriors had kept all their high draft picks.

I am not too worked up about the summer. I generally expect less to happen than most people hope for, so if more happens it's a pleasant surprise. Worse case scenario, there will be some entertainment value of some sort, if only to see how Magic reacts to a total failure.
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Trevacious2
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

calistrtballr wrote:
Preference is get p george no matter what, but if 2 max fails...Just resign randle, dump clarkson, bring back matt thomas

Is he still shooting hot in Spain?
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

Trevacious2 wrote:
calistrtballr wrote:
Preference is get p george no matter what, but if 2 max fails...Just resign randle, dump clarkson, bring back matt thomas

Is he still shooting hot in Spain?


comes off the bench....shooting 45% from 3 on 4.5 attempts a game. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is not super high over there with the closer 3 point line?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/euro/players/matt-thomas-1.html
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject:

lakerican wrote:
Yinona, I/m with you in thinking very pessimistic about the 2 max plan and signing any of George,James or Boogie.

i will do as follows:

1. Offer CCapela a 4year 60mil. I think Rockets will have a hard time matching that.

2. Sign WBarton to a 4year 54mil.

3. Bring JJack in a one and one deal, let's say 6mil.

4. Sign Julius to 4yr 48mil.

Punt 15+mil.

Or the 1st 3 options and punt 27+


I like all those signings except Randle.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
governator wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
governator wrote:
If you gonna lose young talents (Russell, Randle, JC)... it's 2 max of busts


Kind of the crux of the entire discussion. Maybe the 2 max plan is not the "best" option for this team at this time.

I tend to believe there was more to the DLO trade then simply clearing cap space. So I do not lump him in as simply step one.

IMO there was more to it that concerned behind the scenes attitude and personality issues that we do not give enough credence to. New regime lacked faith in him long term. That makes more sense to me as to why he was the one chosen to be moved almost immediately.


It has to be one massive negative personality to trade a young 'all-star trajectory' 21 year old for a cap space that we might not even use for a max (we've tolerated plenty of head scratcher in the past, all the way to Dennis Rodman)... so I hope you are correct


Also name a team that has kept all their high draft picks, strolled into the NBA Finals and won it all?


Todayís gold standard, Golden State Warriors.


I said high draft picks. Like Dray said, they were drafted 7th, 11th, & 35th. Based on draft position, they shouldn't really be a "Super Team". All our last 4 top picks have been 7, 2, 2, 2.

I'm not saying it can't or won't be done in the modern NBA, but it's just rare to see a team with our draft position 4 years straight, keep the same team and win it all. Philly already lost 2 or 3 Process players. OKC would have been the true gold standard, but they were too cheap and traded Harden away. In a few years we will be able to tell if our moves are the right or wrong ones.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
give Michael Beasley a max deal....and everything left goes to Super Mario Hezonja


When does Ty Lawson get back from China? He seems to enjoy drinking & driving in LA. 😂
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Season Plan Best Case Scenario

Lakers Get:
Houston's Tradable 2nd Round Pick
PJ Tucker
Ryan Anderson
Tarik Black
Trevor Ariza

Houston Gets:
Brook Lopez
KCP
Larry Nance Jr.

Followed by:

Lakers Get:
Tristan Thompson
Channing Frye
Cleveland's 2018 1st Round Pick (NOT the Nets Pick)

Cleveland Gets:
Ryan Anderson
PJ Tucker

Followed by:

Lakers Get:
DeMarcus Cousins

Pelicans Get:
Tristan Thompson
Cleveland's 2018 1st Round Pick
Houston's 2018 tradable 2nd round pick (or the Lakers Nuggets Pick)
Future Lakers 1st


Lakers post ASB go forward with their roster as follows

Starters:
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins

Bench:
Tyler Ennis
Jordan Clarkson
Trevor Ariza / Corey Brewer
Kyle Kuzma / Channing Frye
Ivica Zubac / Thomas Bryant / Tarik Black


Lakers have Cousins' Bird's Rights and can go over the Cap to sign him.

Corey Brewer, Channing Frye, Tarik Black, Trevor Ariza contracts end after the season.

The biggest thing is the Lakers having to re-sign DeMarcus Cousins in the off-season.

Due to having Cousins' Bird's Rights along with Randle's it makes it easier to pursue the 2nd "max" you're after. After stretching Deng.

Clarkson you only move IF you get confirmation from a second max (such as Paul George) that they're definitely coming. If not, you re-sign Cousins to the max and you move forward with the roster as it is but with Cousins at center.



That's the best case scenario though. So I wouldnt hold my breath about it.


Best case scenario is Clarkson is off the roster ASAP. And Randle too if he keeps playing as lazily as he has. Nance preferably stays.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
MJST wrote:
Season Plan Best Case Scenario

Lakers Get:
Houston's Tradable 2nd Round Pick
PJ Tucker
Ryan Anderson
Tarik Black
Trevor Ariza

Houston Gets:
Brook Lopez
KCP
Larry Nance Jr.

Followed by:

Lakers Get:
Tristan Thompson
Channing Frye
Cleveland's 2018 1st Round Pick (NOT the Nets Pick)

Cleveland Gets:
Ryan Anderson
PJ Tucker

Followed by:

Lakers Get:
DeMarcus Cousins

Pelicans Get:
Tristan Thompson
Cleveland's 2018 1st Round Pick
Houston's 2018 tradable 2nd round pick (or the Lakers Nuggets Pick)
Future Lakers 1st


Lakers post ASB go forward with their roster as follows

Starters:
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
DeMarcus Cousins

Bench:
Tyler Ennis
Jordan Clarkson
Trevor Ariza / Corey Brewer
Kyle Kuzma / Channing Frye
Ivica Zubac / Thomas Bryant / Tarik Black


Lakers have Cousins' Bird's Rights and can go over the Cap to sign him.

Corey Brewer, Channing Frye, Tarik Black, Trevor Ariza contracts end after the season.

The biggest thing is the Lakers having to re-sign DeMarcus Cousins in the off-season.

Due to having Cousins' Bird's Rights along with Randle's it makes it easier to pursue the 2nd "max" you're after. After stretching Deng.

Clarkson you only move IF you get confirmation from a second max (such as Paul George) that they're definitely coming. If not, you re-sign Cousins to the max and you move forward with the roster as it is but with Cousins at center.



That's the best case scenario though. So I wouldnt hold my breath about it.


Best case scenario is Clarkson is off the roster ASAP. And Randle too if he keeps playing as lazily as he has. Nance preferably stays.


Agreed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

I doubt Houston is making any trades, given their record and roster to run for the Finals.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
lakerican wrote:
Yinona, I/m with you in thinking very pessimistic about the 2 max plan and signing any of George,James or Boogie.

i will do as follows:

1. Offer CCapela a 4year 60mil. I think Rockets will have a hard time matching that.

2. Sign WBarton to a 4year 54mil.

3. Bring JJack in a one and one deal, let's say 6mil.

4. Sign Julius to 4yr 48mil.

Punt 15+mil.

Or the 1st 3 options and punt 27+


I like all those signings except Randle.


Yeah, Maybe you're right about Julius. ITOH Capela won't take a 3 yr offer even if the cba aloud it. Capela is only 23+ yrs. of age, being restricted. In Barton case, I think although he is 27+ yrs. old, he has only cashed 9mil in 8 seasons, so he will go to the higher bidder, being unresctricted.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Bear in mind that in 2019, we'd have a 1st round pick (thank you Stepien Rule). So while I don't think we'd tank, we may still get a decent lotto pick out of it if we didn't get 2 max players.


Lakers should just tank to get a top 4 pick. Yes it will be 4 seasons in a row trying for a top 4 pick but at this point, stick with it and stop half-assing and try for the #1 pick, youth is the recipe for the future. Just look at Philly they had a real plan in place for their youth movement, they suffered longer and tanked for 6 years straight but now got 2 legit stars with one still TBD to show for their "process".

Hopefully we can finally get a #1 pick instead of 2nd picks back to back to back. But at least a top 4 can snag us one of Zion "baby ShaqBron", Barrett, Bol, or Red.

Is LaMelo declaring for the 2019 draft? Depending what happens in LT he would probably fall around picks 9-12 and maybe available if the Lakers don't try to tank but still don't make the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

Will Barton, Noel, Lou Will, Mirotic on over priced short term deals.

Resign Randle. Possibly Lopez if on the cheap. Trade JC/Nance.


Noel/Randle
Kuzma/Mirotic
Ingram
Barton/Hart
Ball/Lou Will
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

Release KCP ($18)
Release Brewer ($7.5)

Resign Randle 4/$60 (overestimating on $)
Sign Nemanja Bjelica 2/$20
Sign Noah Vonleh 2/$20

I didn't do the math, but I hope that still leaves 1 MAX slot open for 2018.

If it doesn't work out,

FA 2020
All these guys will be 33-35 looking for rings:

Kyle Lowry
Al Horford
Marc Gasol
Paul Millsap
Marvin Williams

Serge Ibaka
Kawhi Leonard (entering prime, comes back home?)

Kyrie Irving
Draymond Green

Bogdan Bogdonovic
Khris Middleton
Jae Crowder
Juan Hernangomez
Caris Levert (RFA)
DeAndre Bembry
Willy Hernangomez
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