If you could undo one which would it be, Nash trade or Movgov/Deng signings
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2019
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject:

Threatt_Level wrote:
2019 wrote:
Hindsight is 20/20 but since we're going through a revisionist history of mistakes-- here are the big ones:

Nash Trade-- ironically, we've yet to pay for it as we've dodged the odds and the hope was that we'd slip into the playoffs and not really ever lose a massive pick, but this seems to the the year we're going to lose a top 7 pick.


MozDeng-- just terrible singings that made no sense whatsoever. Though VLF will tell you otherwise.


Nash and MozDeng didn't require hindsight. They were stupid moves at the time. You don't give up 2 first round draft picks for a 39 year-old player. I don't care if it's Nash, LeBron, or Jordan, you just don't. The Nash stupidity was compounded by the fact that if Phoenix didn't trade him to us, he was going to get signed by either the Knicks or Raptors, and the Suns wouldn't have gotten a damn thing in return. We held the cards and let the Suns bluff us.

If we're really going to revisionist history this thing, we should've told the Suns to (bleep) off, signed Kyle Lowry, and let Kobe ride off into the sunset after the Achilles injury and made this Dwight's team. Then we could've signed LeBron, Carmelo, or Bosh that next offseason like we'd planned on, because Dwight would've brought them. Do we win rings? Possibly. Likely not. But we aren't a lottery team for 5 years, either.

Or, scenario B - embrace the tank, don't try to be "competitive" after Dwight walks - trade Pau after Dwight walks, don't sign guys like Nick Young, Kaman, Lou Will, etc. And we end up with guys like Simmons, KAT, and Embiid or Parker instead of Randle, Russell, and Ingram.


Disagree on the Nash deal being terrible at the time. Kobe was still MVP level, Dwight was assumed to be healthy which was DPOY 20/12 and Nash was coming off an all star season where he received MVP consideration. It made sense to trade for him.

I guess I could have added to that list the hire of Phil over MDA because that was the move that would've best made the Dwight thing work but again, m we should have traded Dwight who IMO could have netted us the package that Brooklyn got for KG and PP.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
I wouldnít undo anything because we likely wouldnít have ball and Ingram and space for 2 maxes. Every team goes through a rebuilding phase.


We donít have space for two maxes.


Cmon, donít play ignorant. With a simple clarkson trade and deng stretch we do.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:39 am    Post subject:

I don't fault them for going all out and trying to win a chip with Howard and Nash (even though the price was too steep for Nash)

But the Moz and Deng deals were horrible, not only did we overpay, which perhaps was understandable since it was a sellers market, but we ended up not being able to use Moz or Deng in our system - that was the worst part of the deal - just unforgivable. They just threw money away, and it cost us a lottery pic (DLO) and more coming up with impending unloading Deng
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:54 am    Post subject:

Mozgov and Deng were horrible self inflicted wounds but they were hardly the most hardest impacting. They tied up cap space in a time when no MAX FA was going to sign with us either way. Also a time when we needed to develop our young draft picks and tank for even more talent rather than pick up rentals that would have us in a worse situation: mediocrity where we wouldnt have a prayer of winning a championship but would be drafting too late to pick up a blue chip prospect to take us to the next level.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:57 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Not trading Shaq a year earlier was a mistake. With two years (plus option) of his contract remaining, we likely could have received a better haul for him.


OMFG!!!! THIS!!

You know for years I have always wondered what the Lakers could have gotten if they traded him earlier....

Prime Garnett?
Trading for the #1 pick of Cleveland which gets Lebron James?

Man the possibilities are endless with this one...

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject:

Ask me again after next draft. So far, we didn't surrender much for Nash: Nemanja Nedovic, Johnny O'Bryant III and Alex Oriakhi.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject:

Don't like either transaction but on the "what have you done for me lately radar"; I'd go with the Moz/Deng signings. Why? just to have that money today. I'd be curious to see what the current FO would do with that money, I already saw what the prior did.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject:

DangeRuss wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
I wouldnít undo anything because we likely wouldnít have ball and Ingram and space for 2 maxes. Every team goes through a rebuilding phase.


We donít have space for two maxes.


Cmon, donít play ignorant. With a simple clarkson trade and deng stretch we do.


Iím not the one saying we do and then posting proof that we donít
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject:

Daikatana wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Not trading Shaq a year earlier was a mistake. With two years (plus option) of his contract remaining, we likely could have received a better haul for him.


OMFG!!!! THIS!!

You know for years I have always wondered what the Lakers could have gotten if they traded him earlier....

Prime Garnett?
Trading for the #1 pick of Cleveland which gets Lebron James?

Man the possibilities are endless with this one...


Shaq pre-empted all of that. Starting in 2002, he consistently threatened to have (foot?) surgery every January and miss the rest of the year if he was traded. He knew how to preserve his leverage.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
I wouldnít undo anything because we likely wouldnít have ball and Ingram and space for 2 maxes. Every team goes through a rebuilding phase.


We donít have space for two maxes.


Cmon, donít play ignorant. With a simple clarkson trade and deng stretch we do.


Iím not the one saying we do and then posting proof that we donít


We can stretch BOTH JC and Deng while letting Randle go to make space for two maxes. We don't need anyone's help to do that. Facts.
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:11 am    Post subject:

The Nash trade, but it was a much more logical move and should have been made. You could argue that the Lakers might have paid a bit less, but it's hard to know what the offers were for Nash at the time.

The Deng Mozgov deals were horrible from day one and entirely foreseeable. They were much worse, in fact, when taken as one, they were probably the worst deals in franchise history.


Last edited by kevin61 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

Even though it felt like we gave up too much for Nash, rolling that one back is simply a matter of 20-20 hindsight. I know I was very optimistic at the time as I was picturing a John Stockton-like finish to Nash's career.

The MozDeng signings, however, had me screaming the second I read about them. Those were two of the worst free agent signings I have ever seen. They not only cost us cap space but forced us to trade DLo for pennies on the dollar. And it just may cost us Clarkson, Randle, and possibly Nance as well. I think THAT self-inflicted wound was the worst.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

NYLakerFan wrote:
Even though it felt like we gave up too much for Nash, rolling that one back is simply a matter of 20-20 hindsight. I know I was very optimistic at the time as I was picturing a John Stockton-like finish to Nash's career.

The MozDeng signings, however, had me screaming the second I read about them. Those were two of the worst free agent signings I have ever seen. They not only cost us cap space but forced us to trade DLo for pennies on the dollar. And it just may cost us Clarkson, Randle, and possibly Nance as well. I think THAT self-inflicted wound was the worst.


Look at the post above, are we the same person?


Last edited by kevin61 on Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
I wouldnít undo anything because we likely wouldnít have ball and Ingram and space for 2 maxes. Every team goes through a rebuilding phase.


We donít have space for two maxes.


Cmon, donít play ignorant. With a simple clarkson trade and deng stretch we do.


Iím not the one saying we do and then posting proof that we donít


We can stretch BOTH JC and Deng while letting Randle go to make space for two maxes. We don't need anyone's help to do that. Facts.


More proof.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Daikatana wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Not trading Shaq a year earlier was a mistake. With two years (plus option) of his contract remaining, we likely could have received a better haul for him.


OMFG!!!! THIS!!

You know for years I have always wondered what the Lakers could have gotten if they traded him earlier....

Prime Garnett?
Trading for the #1 pick of Cleveland which gets Lebron James?

Man the possibilities are endless with this one...


Shaq pre-empted all of that. Starting in 2002, he consistently threatened to have (foot?) surgery every January and miss the rest of the year if he was traded. He knew how to preserve his leverage.

Tough call, we still had a championship team. Who know how many chips we couldíve won if shaq had stayed, what if we never got a ĎPauĒ
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

NYLakerFan wrote:
Even though it felt like we gave up too much for Nash, rolling that one back is simply a matter of 20-20 hindsight. I know I was very optimistic at the time as I was picturing a John Stockton-like finish to Nash's career.

The MozDeng signings, however, had me screaming the second I read about them. Those were two of the worst free agent signings I have ever seen. They not only cost us cap space but forced us to trade DLo for pennies on the dollar. And it just may cost us Clarkson, Randle, and possibly Nance as well. I think THAT self-inflicted wound was the worst.


Those signings didnít force us to do anything. Magic and Pelinka chose to trade DLO, the signings had nothing to do with that trade. And if we lose any of Clarkson, Randle or Nance, again that will be the choice of Magic and Pelinka. You can live in the fantasy world that top FAs want to come here but donít let those fantasies cloud the truth. That is all kinds of wrong.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
Mozgov and Deng were horrible self inflicted wounds but they were hardly the most hardest impacting. They tied up cap space in a time when no MAX FA was going to sign with us either way. Also a time when we needed to develop our young draft picks and tank for even more talent rather than pick up rentals that would have us in a worse situation: mediocrity where we wouldnt have a prayer of winning a championship but would be drafting too late to pick up a blue chip prospect to take us to the next level.

"They tied up cap space in a time when no MAX FA was going to sign with us either way.". It also insured that no matter how much the team improved, that cap space would be lost until 2020. There is never a reason to make a move like that, no matter how bad the team might be.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:37 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
NYLakerFan wrote:
Even though it felt like we gave up too much for Nash, rolling that one back is simply a matter of 20-20 hindsight. I know I was very optimistic at the time as I was picturing a John Stockton-like finish to Nash's career.

The MozDeng signings, however, had me screaming the second I read about them. Those were two of the worst free agent signings I have ever seen. They not only cost us cap space but forced us to trade DLo for pennies on the dollar. And it just may cost us Clarkson, Randle, and possibly Nance as well. I think THAT self-inflicted wound was the worst.


Those signings didnít force us to do anything. Magic and Pelinka chose to trade DLO, the signings had nothing to do with that trade. And if we lose any of Clarkson, Randle or Nance, again that will be the choice of Magic and Pelinka. You can live in the fantasy world that top FAs want to come here but donít let those fantasies cloud the truth. That is all kinds of wrong.


VLF, I understand why you need to lessen the impact of the Moz Deng signings given your vociferous support of each at the time. However, since the signings were widely criticized at the time (except by you, of coarse), what's the point in inflicting the damage in the first place?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: If you could undo one which would it be, Nash trade or Movgov/Deng signings

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
Nash trade means team gets 2018 pick with Movgov/Deng still on the books and cap hold affects 2 max/free agency

Movgov/ Deng you lose the 2018 pick but get to keep Russell or better deal for him. Keep Russell and probably no Bryant/ Hart



Nash trade, because we know that failed.

We don't yet know whether the Mos/Russell trade will be a negative or positive
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
I wouldnít undo anything because we likely wouldnít have ball and Ingram and space for 2 maxes. Every team goes through a rebuilding phase.


We donít have space for two maxes.


Cmon, donít play ignorant. With a simple clarkson trade and deng stretch we do.


Iím not the one saying we do and then posting proof that we donít


We can stretch BOTH JC and Deng while letting Randle go to make space for two maxes. We don't need anyone's help to do that. Facts.


More proof.


You know what he meant on his original post. But you love arguing semantics. And get owned while doing it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Nash trade for sure. Didn't we cough up 4 draft picks for a 38 year old point guard who was obviously passed his prime? Hell Steve Blake was a better option even on the rare occasions Nash was healthy.

That trade proved that our FO didn't learn a thing from the Malone/Payton era and still just wanted a big name.
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