Roster Pedigree (as High School Prospects)
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject: Roster Pedigree (as High School Prospects)

In an earlier post, I referenced Randle's ranking as a prospect out of high school. It got me to thinking about others on the roster, and how they were viewed as a high school prospect. I compiled a list of our roster with their rankings as high school seniors utilizing 247 Sports Composite Scores.

Much of the list may simply confirm expectations, but there are some surprising results. Luol Deng was the highest scored player on the roster, and he was the #2 prospect in the country (behind only Lebron James). In contrast, Kyle Kuzma and Larry Nance Jr. were not ranked high enough to even receive a score or national ranking. I also think it illustrates how difficult it is to become a successful NBA player....much less a star. Consider Tyler Ennis who is in his 4th NBA season; a player that had his rookie extension declined, has been on 4 different teams, and receives little playing time on a lottery team.....but just 4 years ago, he was a prized recruit desired by most major college programs in the country and considered the 23rd best player in the country.

1. Luol Deng - 0.9996 - 5 Star - National Rank - #2
2. Julius Randle - 0.9996 - 5 Star - National Rank - #2
3. Brandon Ingram - 0.9992 - 5 Star - National Rank - #3
4. Lonzo Ball - 0.9988 - 5 Star - National Rank - #3
5. Brook Lopez - 0.9962 - 5 Star - National Rank - #10
6. Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - 0.9930 - 5 Star - National Rank - #12
7. Thomas Bryant - 0.9919 - 5 Star - National Rank - #20
8. Tyler Ennis - 0.9907 - 5 Star - National Rank - #23
9. Corey Brewer - 0.9904 - 5 Star - National Rank - #23
10. Vander Blue - 0.9892 - 4 Star - National Rank - #28
11. Alex Caruso - 0.9664 - 4 Star - National Rank - #85
12. Josh Hart - 0.9655 - 4 Star - National Rank - #79
13. Jordan Clarkson - 0.8755 - 3 Star - National Rank - #214
14. Kyle Kuzma* - NA - 3 Star - National Rank - #NA
15. Larry Nance Jr.** - NA - NA Star - National Rank - #NA
NA. Ivica Zubac*** - NA - NA Star - National Rank - #NA

* - Kyle Kuzma was given a 3 Star rating, but did receive a score or national ranking.
** - Larry Nance Jr. did not receive a star rating, score or national ranking.
*** - Ivica Zubac was International and did not receive a star rating, score or national ranking.
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Last edited by adkindo on Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject:

It's amazing to understand just how talented even a 2 way GLeague player or 15th man is.

The highest level comp I've played against in basketball was D-1, (one of my best friends was D-1 bench player) and that guy was tiers and tiers above all of us. Can't imagine how good an NBA player must be. We rag on guys like Steve Novak for example, but that would drop 50 on your rec league so easily.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
It's amazing to understand just how talented even a 2 way GLeague player or 15th man is.

The highest level comp I've played against in basketball was D-1, (one of my best friends was D-1 bench player) and that guy was tiers and tiers above all of us. Can't imagine how good an NBA player must be. We rag on guys like Steve Novak for example, but that would drop 50 on your rec league so easily.


At least it was D-1 Yinoma, 40 lbs and 20 yrs ago, played a bit on summers against the local community college players... destroyed
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It's amazing to understand just how talented even a 2 way GLeague player or 15th man is.

The highest level comp I've played against in basketball was D-1, (one of my best friends was D-1 bench player) and that guy was tiers and tiers above all of us. Can't imagine how good an NBA player must be. We rag on guys like Steve Novak for example, but that would drop 50 on your rec league so easily.


At least it was D-1 Yinoma, 40 lbs and 20 yrs ago, played a bit on summers against the local community college players... destroyed


My friend played against Paul Pierce in college. Said he was unbelievably strong and good.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject:

Yup. Like we say Brewer is a scrub. He'd legit drop 50 if he showed up and played with us.

Ennis on the other hand..he'd be held scoreless hahah jk
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject:

Lakesh0wtime wrote:
Yup. Like we say Brewer is a scrub. He'd legit drop 50 if he showed up and played with us.

Ennis on the other hand..he'd be held scoreless hahah jk


he dropped 51 on the Houston Rockets....he would clear that by halftime against LG's best.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
governator wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It's amazing to understand just how talented even a 2 way GLeague player or 15th man is.

The highest level comp I've played against in basketball was D-1, (one of my best friends was D-1 bench player) and that guy was tiers and tiers above all of us. Can't imagine how good an NBA player must be. We rag on guys like Steve Novak for example, but that would drop 50 on your rec league so easily.


At least it was D-1 Yinoma, 40 lbs and 20 yrs ago, played a bit on summers against the local community college players... destroyed


My friend played against Paul Pierce in college. Said he was unbelievably strong and good.


You can do it Yinoma:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2753416-meet-the-39-year-old-bus-driver-living-his-college-basketball-dream?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject:

Bogut would have been our highest I assume.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Bogut would have been our highest I assume.


not sure....247 Sports, which started in 2010, does not provide a retroactive composite score as they did with Deng, nor does Rivals (which started in 1998) provide a score or ranking for Bogut. I would assume he was not as highly coveted coming out of high school since he signed with Utah? They had been very good before he arrived (Andre Miller and Michael Doleac), but I would assume still not the type of program scoring 5 Star prospects.

**edit....I just remembered that Bogut is Australian and would not have been scored by those websites. Deng attended high school in New Jersey is why he was scored.
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Last edited by adkindo on Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cutheon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

Thanks for compiling. Although Deng had a bit of an advantage when he was ranked, since he was - what - 25 as a high school senior?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
Thanks for compiling. Although Deng had a bit of an advantage when he was ranked, since he was - what - 25 as a high school senior?


well...if you consider he was in the same high school class as Lebron....and compare the two currently.....it definitely could lead some to wonder.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject:

Nice perspective. We can sometimes rag on a player and it can be a little harsh at times.

I remember what Jalen Rose said at the draft last year- to make it to the NBA even for one game, is a remarkable achievement that only a few thousand people on the earth can claim.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

I think it's also important to consider things like this when we view how players act and respond to demotions. Use Lonzo for an example (only because he is the most recent)...if he came in and was terrible....everyone agreed that they missed on the pick....and he was on the bench not getting playing time. Most within the organization question if he will ever be an NBA quality player. Just a hypothetical example.

From the outside....many would claim he should not pout or be upset....just be happy that he is in the NBA and getting a huge paycheck. We do not usually consider that less than 18 months ago, he was told he was the #3 best high school player in the country. He could most likely stand in his yard in Chino Hills and know that there is not a high school player as good as him within 1,000 miles. Humble or not, that would have to be intoxicating for a 17-18 year old. So it would be extremely unlikely that he now would suddenly accept the opinion he is not good enough to play.....or compete with the best players. 1000 coaches and experts could tell him he was not good enough....and he is not going to accept that....no for a very long time.

While Ball is not in that position....similar things are likely going on with Randle currently. It is not going to matter what we think or any coach tells him....he is not going to accept being a backup center anytime soon. Just a few years ago he was the 2nd best player in his class....he has dominated the competition for years as a PF. If he goes somewhere else and they tell him the same thing....he will probably seek to go somewhere else. It would take almost anyone a very long time to accept such a drastic and sudden change to what you have always seen yourself as.....sure that is why it is so much easier for guys like Clarkson and Nance to be ok coming off the bench.
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Aike
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
It's amazing to understand just how talented even a 2 way GLeague player or 15th man is.

The highest level comp I've played against in basketball was D-1, (one of my best friends was D-1 bench player) and that guy was tiers and tiers above all of us. Can't imagine how good an NBA player must be. We rag on guys like Steve Novak for example, but that would drop 50 on your rec league so easily.


I've played against plenty of D-1 guys and held my own fine, but I've also played against guys who were starters on top 5 college teams. Playing against those guys was a struggle.

They were a tier above regular D-1 guys, while still being a notch below the guys who are barely in the league. Lot of talent out there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

Itís amazing to think Randle was 2nd ranked and has such a limited ceiling as an NBA player. Guess thatís how it is when youíre a 6í9Ē center that canít shoot outside of the paint.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
Itís amazing to think Randle was 2nd ranked and has such a limited ceiling as an NBA player. Guess thatís how it is when youíre a 6í9Ē center that canít shoot outside of the paint.


How is his ceiling limited? He is capable of putting up triple doubles without even having a jumpshot. Wouldn't his ceiling be someone who can put up triple doubles and also knock down threes?

Or are you saying he's already at his ceiling and will never be able to shoot?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject:

NBA competition is head and shoulders above everyone else.

I remember when my club in Brazil (Vasco da Gama) played against the Spurs back in 1999, in one of those McDonald's Championships. It was the first time ever a brazilian team played against a NBA team.

Vasco, then the back to back South-American champions, didn't had a chance against a young Tim Duncan. We lost 103-68.

We actually had an american player on the roster, Charles Byrd (from West Texas A&M University) who did hit a mid-court buzzer beater at the half. He led the team with 17 points IIRC.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Aike wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Itís amazing to think Randle was 2nd ranked and has such a limited ceiling as an NBA player. Guess thatís how it is when youíre a 6í9Ē center that canít shoot outside of the paint.


How is his ceiling limited? He is capable of putting up triple doubles without even having a jumpshot. Wouldn't his ceiling be someone who can put up triple doubles and also knock down threes?

Or are you saying he's already at his ceiling and will never be able to shoot?


The latter.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
Itís amazing to think Randle was 2nd ranked and has such a limited ceiling as an NBA player. Guess thatís how it is when youíre a 6í9Ē center that canít shoot outside of the paint.


Randle was hitting a few jumpers and looking like LeBron in transition at the HS level before he got hurt.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Itís amazing to think Randle was 2nd ranked and has such a limited ceiling as an NBA player. Guess thatís how it is when youíre a 6í9Ē center that canít shoot outside of the paint.


Randle was hitting a few jumpers and looking like LeBron in transition at the HS level before he got hurt.


dropped to 7th in the draft though.. showed signs of his issues in college for sure. A lot of his high school comp was terrible while he was an absolute beast. Don't think the injury changed him - looking at what he was in college and 1st summer league(chubby)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
BizLA wrote:
Itís amazing to think Randle was 2nd ranked and has such a limited ceiling as an NBA player. Guess thatís how it is when youíre a 6í9Ē center that canít shoot outside of the paint.


Randle was hitting a few jumpers and looking like LeBron in transition at the HS level before he got hurt.


dropped to 7th in the draft though.. showed signs of his issues in college for sure. A lot of his high school comp was terrible while he was an absolute beast. Don't think the injury changed him - looking at what he was in college and 1st summer league(chubby)


Kentucky hid all of his perimeter abilities until the last 2 games of that season. Basically, his midrange J was non-existent, and he wasn't seen as a slasher anymore. That's not Randle's fault.

Dude beasted a bunch of teams in the paint. Nearly fouled out the entire Michigan St. frontline early that season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject:

True. But the signs - a lot of those paint shots and even makes, were flailing shots that were tough to view as consistent down the line. He showed a solid amount of handling skills in college too - not nearly as much as his point-forward self in highschool but it still wasn't rare enough to overlook IMO (I remember making posts about those handle skills he showed in college, as why I wanted him)

Even Vonleh was a point-forward in high school.. Thon Maker had lots of flashes there. Aaron Gordon. All of these guys handling skills either dissolved to nil at higher levels - or that skill significantly lowered in effectiveness(Gordon).
So I don't think Randle's reduced use in that facet - is for any other reason than those guys. (It's easy as hell to handle the ball against high school comp)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject:

I just wanted Randle because I thought he was the BPA in the draft, using older thought processes with draft approach. Size, athleticism, ball-handling, passing requisites. Fit those across the board, and at worst, was going to be a power rebounder with motor.

Vonleh, yeah he was a point forward, almost Chris Bosh like in game, then Indiana, IMHO, destroyed his skill level. Bulked up, lost some of that quickness/top speed/vert. Wasn't comfortable handling all that strength and playing back to the basket all the time.

Thon, just no comment.

Gordon, didn't get to show it last year because he played way too much time at SF. Now that he has a semblance of a jumper, he hasn't needed to rely on ball-handling to create shots as much. Pump fake. 2 dribbles. Power up. At least AG showed ball-handling/passing skills at PF at Arizona every game.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
True. But the signs - a lot of those paint shots and even makes, were flailing shots that were tough to view as consistent down the line.


But that's kinda become his thing in the NBA, too, and I just accept that he's pretty good at those awkward-looking finishes around the rim. Isn't he shooting an above average percentage in that area right now?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
True. But the signs - a lot of those paint shots and even makes, were flailing shots that were tough to view as consistent down the line.


But that's kinda become his thing in the NBA, too, and I just accept that he's pretty good at those awkward-looking finishes around the rim. Isn't he shooting an above average percentage in that area right now?


64.7% at Kentucky.

72.9% right now (granted with more dunks this season as PnR roll man)
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