View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
governator wrote: | guess a good Q is, personality/family aside, would you trade Lonzo for D'Angelo? |
No, Lonzo is the best prospect the Lakers have drafted in this stretch. Then I'd lean toward DLo slightly ahead of Ingram, but they're neck-and-neck with Kuzma and Randle behind them. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KungPau Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 754
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | governator wrote: | guess a good Q is, personality/family aside, would you trade Lonzo for D'Angelo? |
would give the Nets Lonzo plus more in exchange for a healthy DLo. |
Good thing you don't run the front office. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bandiger Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Posts: 12555
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Cutheon wrote: | They would have gelled really well, I'll tell you that - very complementary skill sets. |
The Laker's version of D.Lillard and McCollum that's what I dreamed of while this team was tanking |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
KungPau wrote: | adkindo wrote: | governator wrote: | guess a good Q is, personality/family aside, would you trade Lonzo for D'Angelo? |
would give the Nets Lonzo plus more in exchange for a healthy DLo. |
Good thing you don't run the front office. |
good thing you have emoji's to laugh at your dumb comments. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
I think context is very important, and it's good that you brought up how terrible the Foxhole Scott experience was for the team's young players. Russell was 6-7 months younger than Lonzo, as well. But I think it's fair to compare rookie seasons when two prospects are within a year in age. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
bandiger wrote: | Cutheon wrote: | They would have gelled really well, I'll tell you that - very complementary skill sets. |
The Laker's version of D.Lillard and McCollum that's what I dreamed of while this team was tanking |
Who knew the D'Lonzo backcourt would be so much better defensively?
Ah, well - what's done is done. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
PhiberOptik Star Player
Joined: 25 Aug 2003 Posts: 4255 Location: San Francisco, CA
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ball has a higher basketball IQ compared to DLO and has a higher ceiling. DLO is a master of the pick and roll in such a young age though and he can be clutch, does not shy away from big moments and relishes it. I hope Ball can develop that. As of now, Ball is shying away from these situations but he'll learn. _________________ Let's Go Lakers!!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KungPau Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 754
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | KungPau wrote: | adkindo wrote: | governator wrote: | guess a good Q is, personality/family aside, would you trade Lonzo for D'Angelo? |
would give the Nets Lonzo plus more in exchange for a healthy DLo. |
Good thing you don't run the front office. |
good thing you have emoji's to laugh at your dumb comments. |
I don't see anything dumber than what you posted, but to each their own. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
PhiberOptik wrote: | Ball has a higher basketball IQ compared to DLO and has a higher ceiling. DLO is a master of the pick and roll in such a young age though and he can be clutch, does not shy away from big moments and relishes it. I hope Ball can develop that. As of now, Ball is shying away from these situations but he'll learn. |
One is a silent assassin, the other is a loud in yo face assassin. One is having a tough time shooting but getting better, the other is a good shooter and clutch. One D up well, the other decent... Man, they would've been an awesome back courtmate |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't trade Ball for DLo, but I would trade Ingram to the Nets for him this summer if PG13 signed on. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think every year the NBA is obligated to hype the draft even when the players aren't that good. They will never say... oh well this year we have a group of decent, but marginal NBA starters who will help a team but won't transform them... they have to market them as stars or people will lose interest in both the draft and the league.
Had Okafor or DLO been "discovered" in the lower part of the first round... both would be celebrated as pleasant surprises like Kuzma. Instead with expectations of the league and franchises who needed desperately to show something to justify 82 games of their fans suffering, the hype machine ignored DLO's limited athleticism and used the flashy, photogenic kid to try to engineer a narrative of an elite playmaker who could also shoot. So when we got a pretty good player who could pass pretty well and shoot okay but not really drive well or play great defense, it seemed pretty disappointing.
Especially, as he wasn't so humble and seemed to believe his own hype.
But DLO's a kid, and the league was just trying to market their product so who can blame them I guess. Wish him well, but glad we are building around Ball. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
I think context is very important, and it's good that you brought up how terrible the Foxhole Scott experience was for the team's young players. Russell was 6-7 months younger than Lonzo, as well. But I think it's fair to compare rookie seasons when two prospects are within a year in age. |
not in those two polar opposite environments....DLo had everything....and I mean everything working against him.....while anything and everything that is controllable the Lakers ensure is working in Lonzo's favor....and still DLo's overall numbers are slightly better Per 36.
Ball - 10.7 PPG / 7.6 RPG / 7.6 APG - 34.9 FG% & 29.8 3FG%
Russell - 16.8 PPG / 4.4 RPG / 4.2 APG - 40.1 FG% & 35.1 3FG%
and as you said, all while being significantly younger. DLo's #'s are materially better if his rookie year was played in a similar environment that Ball has played his to date.
Finally....at any point in Ball's career, do you project him putting up Per 36 production of 27.1 PPG / 6.1 RPG / 7.4 APG? DLo was doing it in year 3....nowhere near his prime.
Last edited by adkindo on Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dr. Funkbot Star Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | All I wanted for this year, no joke, was to see the D'Lonzo pairing.
People were scared about the defense, but Lonzo has shown promise on that end. We could have maybe increased DLO's value with Lonzo IMO. |
DLO was a surprising defender. Not nearly as bad as I thought he would be. He got a lot of deflections and his court IQ and long arms lead him to be in the right position at the right time despite his lackluster athleticism. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
I don't deny that Dlo was put in a bad position during his rookie year, but just because the current FO is hyping Lonzo doesn't mean they've put him in a position to succeed. He starts and gets minutes, but the roster around him is far from ideal, especially given his strengths. Hell, they traded the one guy that could've made his life easier in Dlo days before they drafted him. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
I think context is very important, and it's good that you brought up how terrible the Foxhole Scott experience was for the team's young players. Russell was 6-7 months younger than Lonzo, as well. But I think it's fair to compare rookie seasons when two prospects are within a year in age. |
not in those two polar opposite environments....DLo had everything....and I mean everything working against him.....while anything and everything that is controllable the Lakers ensure is working in Lonzo's favor....and still DLo's overall numbers are slightly better Per 36.
Ball - 10.7 PPG / 7.6 RPG / 7.6 APG - 34.9 FG% & 29.8 3FG%
Russell - 16.8 PPG / 4.4 RPG / 4.2 APG - 40.1 FG% & 35.1 3FG%
and as you said, all while being significantly younger. DLo's #'s are materially better if his rookie year was played in a similar environment that Ball has played his to date.
Finally....at any point in Ball's career, do you project him putting up Per 36 production of 27.1 PPG / 6.1 RPG / 7.4 APG? DLo was doing it in year 3....nowhere near his prime. |
So if you're our GM... you'd trade Ball straight up for DLO? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
TheBlackMamba wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
I don't deny that Dlo was put in a bad position during his rookie year, but just because the current FO is hyping Lonzo doesn't mean they've put him in a position to succeed. He starts and gets minutes, but the roster around him is far from ideal, especially given his strengths. Hell, they traded the one guy that could've made his life easier in Dlo days before they drafted him. |
he is not getting jerked in and out of games....starting a few...then benched for no explainable reason....and constantly criticized in the media by his own coach.....the environments and difficulty DLo and Ball have encountered are night and day. Luke will rarely even put Ball on the court without being insulated by the best players on the roster. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
AirKobe8 Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 8586
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Although they are very different players, I don't think the 2 of them could play their best basketball together. I'll take Lonzo, I like what he brings to the team. _________________ www.lakersbrasil.com
Fan site made by me and others, dedicated to posting Laker news and articles in portuguese. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sentient Meat wrote: | So if you're our GM... you'd trade Ball straight up for DLO? |
really? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | So if you're our GM... you'd trade Ball straight up for DLO? |
really? |
Yes, I'm asking seriously |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | cal1piggy wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | Link |
nice, so dlo is a 0.40 shooter while ball is 0.35 but ball better at everything else.
can this website give stats for the last 20 games played? |
Basketball Reference isn't as granular with splits, but you can find month-by-month splits and compare them: Link
Just go to the "More [player name] pages" tab at the bottom, click on it, and look for the player's splits by year. You can do it for Lonzo this season and compare with DLo's rookie year. |
wait, so your comparing DLo under Byron (a coach that openly disliked the kid and jerked him around all season) during the Kobe Farewell Tour......to Lonzo who is the pride of the FO and the most promoted and hyped young Laker.....ever? yeah, that seems real fair. |
I think context is very important, and it's good that you brought up how terrible the Foxhole Scott experience was for the team's young players. Russell was 6-7 months younger than Lonzo, as well. But I think it's fair to compare rookie seasons when two prospects are within a year in age. |
not in those two polar opposite environments....DLo had everything....and I mean everything working against him.....while anything and everything that is controllable the Lakers ensure is working in Lonzo's favor....and still DLo's overall numbers are slightly better Per 36.
Ball - 10.7 PPG / 7.6 RPG / 7.6 APG - 34.9 FG% & 29.8 3FG%
Russell - 16.8 PPG / 4.4 RPG / 4.2 APG - 40.1 FG% & 35.1 3FG%
and as you said, all while being significantly younger. DLo's #'s are materially better if his rookie year was played in a similar environment that Ball has played his to date.
Finally....at any point in Ball's career, do you project him putting up Per 36 production of 27.1 PPG / 6.1 RPG / 7.4 APG? DLo was doing it in year 3....nowhere near his prime. |
And there's a massive chasm between them in RPM and similar stats, in Lonzo's favor. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
AirKobe8 wrote: | Although they are very different players, I don't think the 2 of them could play their best basketball together. I'll take Lonzo, I like what he brings to the team. |
Why not? I think Lonzo would have ended up being the facilitator and DLO a half court secondary creator and shot maker. Pretty nice synergy to me. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
how about looking at it through this prism...
- DLo's market value....even after being depressed as much as possible by Byron, on top of the Swaggy P events....was enough to carry one of the worst contracts in the league with 3 years remaining, and still return an expiring contract of a former All Star in his late 20's coming off of a 20+PPG season, and a 1st Round draft pick.
- I am confident that Lonzo Ball would not be enough to move the similar contract of Luol Deng and it only has 2 years remaining....and Deng is still a more valuable player than Mozgov.....much less return a 20 PPG player on an expiring and a 1st Round Draft pick.
***note that DLo only had 2 years remaining on his valuable bargain rookie contract.....in this hypothetical, Ball would have 3 years remaining on his below market rookie contract.
Last edited by adkindo on Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:17 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Sentient Meat wrote: | adkindo wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | So if you're our GM... you'd trade Ball straight up for DLO? |
really? |
Yes, I'm asking seriously |
did you read the thread at all?
adkindo wrote: | governator wrote: | guess a good Q is, personality/family aside, would you trade Lonzo for D'Angelo? |
would give the Nets Lonzo plus more in exchange for a healthy DLo. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lucky_Shot Star Player
Joined: 10 Jan 2016 Posts: 5140
|
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
Right now as a rookie Ball is already better than Dlo at year 3 also he's less injury prone |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|