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Ujah's Goat
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Joined: 01 Jun 2016
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Location: Babylon
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | epak wrote: | | governator wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | This is such a strange thread. For one, Lonzo is here and Dlo isn't, so why even start this conversation? Secondly, most who supported Dlo the previous two seasons actually concede that Lonzo is the better player. If anything we just wanted to see if they could co-exist. |
i started the thread and not to bash dlo, who i sorry to see go in the trade at the time. i just wanted to comp a #2 pick to another #2 pick. we could do the same with ingram but he is only in his 2nd year. |
it's been pretty much civil discussion |
Yep.
And from reading this thread, I think the consensus on LG is:
Lonzo > DLO.
And there are 3 types of posters:
1. Lonzo is better than DLO. And that's all the user has to say.
2. Lonzo is better than DLO, but they need to add the qualifier that DLO doesn't suck. And wishes he were still here.
3. Lonzo is better than DLO, and they add why they're glad DLO is gone.
I love LG. |
4. I don't really care who's better, and that's pretty irrelevant to me, but I wish we had kept Russell and let him and Lonzo play together
5. It's too early to say which of them is better than the other. |
Wrong ether way, but are you saying these are LG’s thoughts or yours? If they are yours, you are in the wrong thread buddy. What’s irrelevant to you is clearly relevant to the decision makers in the FO and the fans. |
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | DLaker wrote: |
It is not right to put in percentages when we don't know all the variables involved. Dlo not traded, he will be 100% be here. We can also say it will be highly likely Mozgov and Deng is still here. Kuz is a different variable, who knows what the Lakers will do. The Lakers traded the 28 to pick up two draft picks who to say they won't do that again and gamble with the 27. There are a lot of variables that could not be accounted for, does the Lakers know about DLo's knees, when he had that plasma injection last year so early in his career, I was imagining Brandon Roy.
We can make all the fantasy trade, but we can see from Deng that shedding that contract is difficult. The 100% facts are that we traded Dlo and Moz and got Lopez, Kuz, money to sign KCP and more flexibility in the summer to make moves. The situation we have last year was because of the dumb moves our previous management made. Rob and Magic was given a problem and in my opinion their solution is going toward a positive direction. In a perfect world, I would have love Jokic or Nurkic than Randle, Porz or Booker than Dlo, did not sign Moz and Deng, did not give up so much for Nash, got something back for Howard and Gasol, and NBA allowed the Chris Paul trade. But I was only dreaming |
How so? We had money to sign KCP nonetheless. We got more salaries back than we dumped. The difference is that Moz had 2 more years of contract than Brook. |
That’s kinda a big deal. |
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Ujah's Goat
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Joined: 01 Jun 2016
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | DLaker wrote: | It is not right to put in percentages when we don't know all the variables involved. Dlo not traded, he will be 100% be here. We can also say it will be highly likely Mozgov and Deng is still here. Kuz is a different variable, who knows what the Lakers will do. The Lakers traded the 28 to pick up two draft picks who to say they won't do that again and gamble with the 27. There are a lot of variables that could not be accounted for, does the Lakers know about DLo's knees, when he had that plasma injection last year so early in his career, I was imagining Brandon Roy.
We can make all the fantasy trade, but we can see from Deng that shedding that contract is difficult. The 100% facts are that we traded Dlo and Moz and got Lopez, Kuz, money to sign KCP and more flexibility in the summer to make moves. The situation we have last year was because of the dumb moves our previous management made. Rob and Magic was given a problem and in my opinion their solution is going toward a positive direction. In a perfect world, I would have love Jokic or Nurkic than Randle, Porz or Booker than Dlo, did not sign Moz and Deng, did not give up so much for Nash, got something back for Howard and Gasol, and NBA allowed theChris Paul trade. But I was only dreaming |
The idea that the Russell trade was a result of the dumb Mozgov/Deng signings is predicated on the notion that the Lakers HAD to trade them, and that's not the case. They could've kept everyone, let Mozgov & Deng expire, and made their big free agency moves in 2020 when the young guys were just starting to enter their mid-20's. Perhaps Magic & Pelinka's impatience will be rewarded, but that impatience wasn't a necessity.
The Lakers had Kuzma as a lottery-level talent on both their big man and wing boards. I was told that by someone who would know. They traded down from #28 after they secured Kuzma, but getting him was the priority. They loved him, and I said as much before the draft. If they didn't have #27, they would have certainly taken him with #28 and that would've been that. |
2020? So in your ideal scenario, we would continue carrying $34mill/year in dead salaries, and our first conceivable attempt to make waves in free agency would be 2.5 years from today? |
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
So because Russell originally is drafted to play "PG" we might as well trade him even if he's a viable "SG" because that's not what he was brought in to be? Seriously?
Not to mention how reductive this "PG" and "SG" nonsense is to begin with. |
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lakersfan8
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Joined: 27 May 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
Clarkson's role is 6th man combo guard like Lou Williams. I would say having Ball, Russell and Clarkson would be a luxury than problem |
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Ujah's Goat
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2016
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Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
So because Russell originally is drafted to play "PG" we might as well trade him even if he's a viable "SG" because that's not what he was brought in to be? Seriously?
Not to mention how reductive this "PG" and "SG" nonsense is to begin with. |
As I said, these nuances may not matter to you (and similar posters) but it did matter to the decision makers. |
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
Clarkson's role is 6th man combo guard like Lou Williams. I would say having Ball, Russell and Clarkson would be a luxury than problem |
It might be in a vacuum. But taking the big picture into account, it looks like the FO figured having increased flexibility in free agency and fully committing around a few core pieces was more important. |
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Luminous8
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | He sure seemed to take to sharing ball handling duties with Lin too. |
Yes because you got such a huge sample size of that with Lins opening night injury. Fact is you have no way to prove he would be putting up the raw numbers he was had Lin not been injured. He certainly wouldn't have been walking around with a 34% usage rate that was higher than even Russell Westbrook. Same can be said that we have no way to prove he couldn't have played with Lonzo. He's gone, I wish him all the best and hope his knee holds up, but to act as if preseason was such an indicator that he had no problem sharing the ball is laughable. |
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Luminous8
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
Clarkson's role is 6th man combo guard like Lou Williams. I would say having Ball, Russell and Clarkson would be a luxury than problem |
It might be in a vacuum. But taking the big picture into account, it looks like the FO figured having increased flexibility in free agency and fully committing around a few core pieces was more important. |
Me thinks Magic never had DLo is the long term plans so it was a lose lose for the kid. |
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Eindhoven
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | Eindhoven wrote: | | DLaker wrote: |
It is not right to put in percentages when we don't know all the variables involved. Dlo not traded, he will be 100% be here. We can also say it will be highly likely Mozgov and Deng is still here. Kuz is a different variable, who knows what the Lakers will do. The Lakers traded the 28 to pick up two draft picks who to say they won't do that again and gamble with the 27. There are a lot of variables that could not be accounted for, does the Lakers know about DLo's knees, when he had that plasma injection last year so early in his career, I was imagining Brandon Roy.
We can make all the fantasy trade, but we can see from Deng that shedding that contract is difficult. The 100% facts are that we traded Dlo and Moz and got Lopez, Kuz, money to sign KCP and more flexibility in the summer to make moves. The situation we have last year was because of the dumb moves our previous management made. Rob and Magic was given a problem and in my opinion their solution is going toward a positive direction. In a perfect world, I would have love Jokic or Nurkic than Randle, Porz or Booker than Dlo, did not sign Moz and Deng, did not give up so much for Nash, got something back for Howard and Gasol, and NBA allowed the Chris Paul trade. But I was only dreaming |
How so? We had money to sign KCP nonetheless. We got more salaries back than we dumped. The difference is that Moz had 2 more years of contract than Brook. |
That’s kinda a big deal. |
It is, that's the main reason they made it. All I'm saying is that the trade didn't allow us to get KCP, we could have got him anyway.
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Fastbreak32
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Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Fastbreak32 wrote: | | Drifts wrote: |
reading is fundamental. |
You also said he "would surely be playing behind him." |
Fundamental indeed. |
Keyword: or.
Both of you are assuming that Russell would be starting at SG. Why? Even if that was what we fans wanted, or the player himself wanted, that’s not the vision the FO had for him.
When D’Lo was drafted he was clearly brought in to be our PG of the future. What does it mean when the FO drafts another PG with their lotto pick and had previously given Clarkson a $56mill extension to play SG for us? Given our personnel, the reason he was drafted to begin with, and his missed game time this season, it’s a tough sell to say D’Lo would have been our starting SG next to Ball had he stayed on the team. |
Perhaps it is an assumption. However, I'd assume that he'd start at the other guard spot, as he was one of the best guards on the team, regardless of PG or SG designation.
I don't think it's a hard sell at all, injuries aside. Their skills are highly complementary. Lonzo could initiate fast break or early offense opportunities. Further, it'd be nice to have another player able to play-make and shot create in the starting line-up, freeing up Lonzo to play off-ball here and there.
Clarkson was given $56 million to play for the Lakers, not necessarily to start. Many 6th men earn that kind of money.
_________________
LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | He sure seemed to take to sharing ball handling duties with Lin too. |
Yes because you got such a huge sample size of that with Lins opening night injury. Fact is you have no way to prove he would be putting up the raw numbers he was had Lin not been injured. He certainly wouldn't have been walking around with a 34% usage rate that was higher than even Russell Westbrook. Same can be said that we have no way to prove he couldn't have played with Lonzo. He's gone, I wish him all the best and hope his knee holds up, but to act as if preseason was such an indicator that he had no problem sharing the ball is laughable. |
Obviously. That's the point. |
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Fastbreak32
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Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 4746
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: |
Me thinks Magic never had DLo is the long term plans so it was a lose lose for the kid. |
That's probably true, and that's understandable. With new leadership comes change.
_________________
LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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lonzobryant
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: |
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It's weird that D'lo with Lonzo's pace and athleticism would be the perfect player.
And Lonzo with D'lo's shooting would also be the perfect player.
Disappointing that we didn't get to see the two together. |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17680
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Ready to see how DLO finishes the season after he knocks off the rust.
The kid was putting up crazy numbers (21/6/5) while only playing 27-28 minutes a game.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm just going to leave this here
Randle
Kuzma/Nance
Ingram
DLO/Nwaba
Ball
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Maybe in the first 1-2 preseason games (maybe DLO plays SPL?) it would be awkward, but I have no doubt the two would have meshed nicely. When it would be obvious that Lonzo could operate the full court game, and then both could run the half court game together, would have been nice.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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silkwilkes
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Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: |
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I have my doubts about the combo defensively because you need athleticsm at the SG position imo. The nightmare of watching DLO try and defend Harden, PG13, Durant, etc. You're not going to stop those guys... but you need someone that will make them work.
Our problem isn't scoring... our defense has become leaky defensively at times and we can't close out games yet. Depth is problem obviously.
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"He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you." |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Luminous8 wrote: | | Me thinks Magic never had DLo is the long term plans so it was a lose lose for the kid. |
Both the pretense that he wasn't in Magic's long term plans and that they viewed him strictly as a PG are legitimate points of contention. Not that either you or Ujah's Goat are wrong about reading it that way (I agree on both points), but I'm talking about their evaluation of those things in the first place.
Russell is a combo guard. He can play PG, he can play SG. In college, the majority of his minutes were at SG next to Shannon Scott. If you draft him strictly to be a PG, and he doesn't pan out the way that you want it to, is that a problem with him, or a problem with your evaluation in the first place? He's a guard in the same style that Steph Curry is, in that the offense often runs through Draymond and Steph runs off of off-ball screens...while still possessing the capability of operating with the ball in his hands. The Lakers actually moved him to SG at the end of the year and he was productive.
I agree that the thought may not have occurred to them to play Russell at SG next to Lonzo, but that's an indictment of their thought process rather than a valid pretense to build off of. All that said, none of that matters if they get 2 max guys.
Last edited by GoldenThroat on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| silkwilkes wrote: | I have my doubts about the combo defensively because you need athleticsm at the SG position imo. The nightmare of watching DLO try and defend Harden, PG13, Durant, etc. You're not going to stop those guys... but you need someone that will make them work.
Our problem isn't scoring... our defense has become leaky defensively at times and we can't close out games yet. Depth is problem obviously. |
Our problem is most definitely scoring. |
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55
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Posts: 12092
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| silkwilkes wrote: | I have my doubts about the combo defensively because you need athleticsm at the SG position imo. The nightmare of watching DLO try and defend Harden, PG13, Durant, etc. You're not going to stop those guys... but you need someone that will make them work.
Our problem isn't scoring... our defense has become leaky defensively at times and we can't close out games yet. Depth is problem obviously. |
Why would Dlo be guarding Durant when he's not a SG? |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Luminous8 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | He sure seemed to take to sharing ball handling duties with Lin too. |
Yes because you got such a huge sample size of that with Lins opening night injury. Fact is you have no way to prove he would be putting up the raw numbers he was had Lin not been injured. He certainly wouldn't have been walking around with a 34% usage rate that was higher than even Russell Westbrook. Same can be said that we have no way to prove he couldn't have played with Lonzo. He's gone, I wish him all the best and hope his knee holds up, but to act as if preseason was such an indicator that he had no problem sharing the ball is laughable. |
Obviously. That's the point. |
Exactly. |
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epak
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Just thinking about the offense, since Lonzo is a low usage player, we don't have to think of it as a Ball vs DLO thing.
Perhaps we need another thread for a BI vs DLO. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Just thinking about the offense, since Lonzo is a low usage player, we don't have to think of it as a Ball vs DLO thing.
Perhaps we need another thread for a BI vs DLO. |
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