Ball vs. DLO
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject:

This has gotten ugly.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject:

Marginal talent was 21, 5.7, 4.7 before he got hurt.

We could use marginal talent as a backup PG.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
This has gotten ugly.


unfortunately and no one commented on the salary point i wanted to discuss...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Marginal talent was 21, 5.7, 4.7 before he got hurt.

We could use marginal talent as a backup PG.


His attitude was debatable when he was starting here.

Bringing him off the bench behind Lonzo? I think that would have been a bad idea for both players.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Two gambling options for Magic...

1) Gamble on a Ball / DLO backcourt turning to a force for a decade or...

2) Gamble on convincing a big time star to sign onto a losing but up and coming team as a free agent.

DLO got a bad deal coming to the Lakers.

Half of Laker fandom either barely tolerated him or outright disparaged him because he last name wasn't Okafor.

He came to the Lakers as one of the youngest players in the draft and upon making immature mistakes, was crucified by many.

DLO then gets a coach that simply does not like him and yo yo's him during the entire season.

In addition, a Lakers legend Magic publicly throws his support for the Lakers to draft Okafor.

DLO then walks onto a Lakers team devoid of talent and having to go through Kobe's Farewell Tour.

While Lonzo Ball deserves all the credit he is getting... there is ZERO DOUBT that he walked into a situation where ALL OF DLO's disadvantages were Lonzo's advantages.

Honest fans should take that into account when comparing the two.

DLO began to make progress DESPITE the disadvantages he inherited. And, instead of saying... wow... this kid is starting to show real signs despite all the negatives he walked into... the response from Magic was to call him out as lacking leadership, sending him packing a salary dump, etc.

Then... as if on cue... the negatives listed above that hung around DLOs neck... disappeared in Brooklyn. And... what are people now recognizing... that DLO has real talent and a bright future.

While health and injury may or may not derail that future... to suggest he isn't going to be really good if he is healthy... is more DLO hate and nothing more.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Comparing the two players is utterly pointless. They’re different types of players completely. One is primarily a shooting guard while the other is a point. I do have a problem with people saying D’Angelo is just a high draft pick while Lonzo is a shoe-in for HoF. Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Nets gave up Lopez and took on Mozgov’s cartoon anvil of a contract just to get him. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This has gotten ugly.


unfortunately and no one commented on the salary point i wanted to discuss...

DLo being traded with Mozgov gives them the shot at a two max plan and pushes back the team's deadline to 2020 (I'd be shocked if they don't give Ingram an extension, though it may be below max), since Ball and Kuzma will get paid in 2021.

Again, it comes down to how you value a healthy Russell's upside versus having greater financial flexibility to possibly achieve more immediate and/or better results through free agency. I lean towards the former over the latter, but I can see arguments either way.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject:

Both are solid prospects to have. Different players, different skills. Both on their way.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject:

Rhazz wrote:
Comparing the two players is utterly pointless. They’re different types of players completely. One is primarily a shooting guard while the other is a point. I do have a problem with people saying D’Angelo is just a high draft pick while Lonzo is a shoe-in for HoF. Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Nets gave up Lopez and took on Mozgov’s cartoon anvil of a contract just to get him. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


An absolute assassin with a career 48.3% efg?

Who plays defense like he is running around with something stuck up his rear end?

If he is an assassin, he is going to need a lot of bullets to get the job done
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Comparing the two players is utterly pointless. They’re different types of players completely. One is primarily a shooting guard while the other is a point. I do have a problem with people saying D’Angelo is just a high draft pick while Lonzo is a shoe-in for HoF. Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Nets gave up Lopez and took on Mozgov’s cartoon anvil of a contract just to get him. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


An absolute assassin with a career 48.3% efg?

Who plays defense like he is running around with something stuck up his rear end?

If he is an assassin, he is going to need a lot of bullets to get the job done


Was NVE an assassin?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Comparing the two players is utterly pointless. They’re different types of players completely. One is primarily a shooting guard while the other is a point. I do have a problem with people saying D’Angelo is just a high draft pick while Lonzo is a shoe-in for HoF. Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Nets gave up Lopez and took on Mozgov’s cartoon anvil of a contract just to get him. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


An absolute assassin with a career 48.3% efg?

Who plays defense like he is running around with something stuck up his rear end?

If he is an assassin, he is going to need a lot of bullets to get the job done


Someone is obsessed with him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Marginal talent was 21, 5.7, 4.7 before he got hurt.

We could use marginal talent as a backup PG.


His attitude was debatable when he was starting here.

Bringing him off the bench behind Lonzo? I think that would have been a bad idea for both players.


Eh, I'd rather have DAR than KCP.

It's been pretty clear since he joined Brooklyn that his attitude changed. So, why couldn't it change in LA?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject:

Rhazz wrote:
Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


2017 - 2018
PPG APG RPG PER
20.9 5.7 4.7 19.53

DLOs first year away from the hate and crazy house that was the Lakers during his time in LA.

DLOs current age: 21.... only 1 year older than Lonzo.

I'll say it again... you don't trade away young talent (with All Star potential) already in your hands hoping for LeBron James to sign onto a losing team.

Anyone... can do a salary dump sending away your best player at the time... but it takes real genius, shrewdness, etc to pull off a Pau Gasol trade.

Magic will be judged on the DLO trade based strictly on the free agent talent he gets to sign on with the Lakers.

Anything short of Lebron, Cousins and a lesser extent PG13... will be a big F grade to a trade that was completely unnecessary at the time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Comparing the two players is utterly pointless. They’re different types of players completely. One is primarily a shooting guard while the other is a point. I do have a problem with people saying D’Angelo is just a high draft pick while Lonzo is a shoe-in for HoF. Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Nets gave up Lopez and took on Mozgov’s cartoon anvil of a contract just to get him. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.



An absolute assassin with a career 48.3% efg?

Who plays defense like he is running around with something stuck up his rear end?

If he is an assassin, he is going to need a lot of bullets to get the job done


Someone is obsessed with him.


Like I get it if a dude says he looks unmotivated, lacked energy, whatever intangibles. In Brooklyn, he looks like he turned it around. Apparently he already did a 4-5 hour workout to shape up for the rest of the season starting today.

But calling a dude a marginal talent that was 15/5/3 in 29 minutes and clearly better than KCP on 4 less minutes of play for a 2nd year player going on last season's statistics, I can't buy that at all.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:06 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
This has gotten ugly.


unfortunately and no one commented on the salary point i wanted to discuss...

DLo being traded with Mozgov gives them the shot at a two max plan and pushes back the team's deadline to 2020 (I'd be shocked if they don't give Ingram an extension, though it may be below max), since Ball and Kuzma will get paid in 2021.

Again, it comes down to how you value a healthy Russell's upside versus having greater financial flexibility to possibly achieve more immediate and/or better results through free agency. I lean towards the former over the latter, but I can see arguments either way.


i think ingram's option is for 20/21 for 10m and ball's option is for 2021/22 for ~14m
am i correct that would give them 2018/2019, 2019/2020 years to do the 2 max plan?

when we traded dlo, were we aware of his health issues?
i think he missed ~20 games in 2016/17?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


2017 - 2018
PPG APG RPG PER
20.9 5.7 4.7 19.53

DLOs first year away from the hate and crazy house that was the Lakers during his time in LA.

DLOs current age: 21.... only 1 year older than Lonzo.

I'll say it again... you don't trade away young talent (with All Star potential) already in your hands hoping for LeBron James to sign onto a losing team.

Anyone... can do a salary dump sending away your best player at the time... but it takes real genius, shrewdness, etc to pull off a Pau Gasol trade.

Magic will be judged on the DLO trade based strictly on the free agent talent he gets to sign on with the Lakers.

Anything short of Lebron, Cousins and a lesser extent PG13... will be a big F grade to a trade that was completely unnecessary at the time.



i was really disappointed when dlo was traded.
however, the health issues have changed my mind.

also dlo may have been the best player on the team last year.
however, the deciding factor is do we think he is at least a #2 player in a championship team.
to me, lonzo could be that #2 but dlo probably is not, particularly given the health.

so despite losing dlo, i now have to agree with the trade.
especially after seeing how kuzma and hart play.
may be we traded dlo early, but when you are in their shoes, you cannot afford to trade dlo 1 year too late with the 2 max plan of some variety.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
Even the most diehard DLO KoolAid drinker can admit Lonzo is a better player.


They can't because they went so overboard on a marginal talent.


You really just read what you want to see, don't you?


No, but to act like you weren't the biggest DLO guy on the board is disingenuous.

If "throwing it in my face" or whatever you said was your motivation to chase your dreams, then our interactions were more positive than I thought.

Best of luck to you on your new gig!


So if I was the biggest DLO guy on the board, and I think that Lonzo is clearly the better player/prospect of the two...what exactly is your point with the bolded? This will be one of those interactions that you mark down as a victory for yourself in the future, won't it?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
M2K wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


2017 - 2018
PPG APG RPG PER
20.9 5.7 4.7 19.53

DLOs first year away from the hate and crazy house that was the Lakers during his time in LA.

DLOs current age: 21.... only 1 year older than Lonzo.

I'll say it again... you don't trade away young talent (with All Star potential) already in your hands hoping for LeBron James to sign onto a losing team.

Anyone... can do a salary dump sending away your best player at the time... but it takes real genius, shrewdness, etc to pull off a Pau Gasol trade.

Magic will be judged on the DLO trade based strictly on the free agent talent he gets to sign on with the Lakers.

Anything short of Lebron, Cousins and a lesser extent PG13... will be a big F grade to a trade that was completely unnecessary at the time.



i was really disappointed when dlo was traded.
however, the health issues have changed my mind.

also dlo may have been the best player on the team last year.
however, the deciding factor is do we think he is at least a #2 player in a championship team.
to me, lonzo could be that #2 but dlo probably is not, particularly given the health.

so despite losing dlo, i now have to agree with the trade.
especially after seeing how kuzma and hart play.
may be we traded dlo early, but when you are in their shoes, you cannot afford to trade dlo 1 year too late with the 2 max plan of some variety.

Financial flexibility doesn't mean anything if you don't sign anyone. Trading DLO did one main thing: it let us get two maxes this year through 2020.

So let's say we sign PG13 and LeBron? Trade was a success.
Let's say we sign PG13 and then Klay in 2019? Trade was a success.
Let's say we sign PG13 and then AD in 2020? Trade was a success.

The problem is that the latter two scenarios is that there is another way to get a star: do what the Thunder did. What if the Pelicans in 2019-2020 covet Russell the way the Pacers coveted Oladipo? That might be the best way to get Anthony Davis onto the roster.

I think it's fair to say if the 2 max plan happens in 2018, it was a good trade. If it doesn't, it probably was a bad trade, pending DLO's knees.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject:

D'Lo was my guy, but he also needed the ball a lot. It is very likely that if we still had D'Lo, Zo and BI wouldn't have progressed as much as they have. Also Mozzie's contract would still be handicapping us and we wouldn't have Kuzie.

No regrets.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Marginal talent was 21, 5.7, 4.7 before he got hurt.

We could use marginal talent as a backup PG.


His attitude was debatable when he was starting here.

Bringing him off the bench behind Lonzo? I think that would have been a bad idea for both players.


Eh, I'd rather have DAR than KCP.

It's been pretty clear since he joined Brooklyn that his attitude changed. So, why couldn't it change in LA?


We were all young and dumb once, but probably not making millions for playing a game and getting showered with media attention.

He had two radically different coaches and staffs in LA, but was still the same guy in both cases- he liked the NBA life but didn't want to put in the work. Sometimes you need a wake up call to change. It looks like the trade was a wake up call for him, which is good news, but I don't think he would have gotten that wake up call if he was still on the Lakers.

Instead, we could have easily had a lot of ugly behind the scenes chemistry problems, in a young players re-run of the Kobe-Dwight 2012-13 fiasco. I remain convinced that his liking of the tweet that said "Don't draft Lonzo" (or something similar that happened behind the scenes) was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as his stay in LA.

I think they were worried about DLO having a corrosive effect on team chemistry, and rightly so. This is the aspect of the trade that doesn't get discussed enough IMO.


tldr- Glad he's turned it around in BKN, but I don't think it would have happened here.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
M2K wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


2017 - 2018
PPG APG RPG PER
20.9 5.7 4.7 19.53

DLOs first year away from the hate and crazy house that was the Lakers during his time in LA.

DLOs current age: 21.... only 1 year older than Lonzo.

I'll say it again... you don't trade away young talent (with All Star potential) already in your hands hoping for LeBron James to sign onto a losing team.

Anyone... can do a salary dump sending away your best player at the time... but it takes real genius, shrewdness, etc to pull off a Pau Gasol trade.

Magic will be judged on the DLO trade based strictly on the free agent talent he gets to sign on with the Lakers.

Anything short of Lebron, Cousins and a lesser extent PG13... will be a big F grade to a trade that was completely unnecessary at the time.



i was really disappointed when dlo was traded.
however, the health issues have changed my mind.

also dlo may have been the best player on the team last year.
however, the deciding factor is do we think he is at least a #2 player in a championship team.
to me, lonzo could be that #2 but dlo probably is not, particularly given the health.

so despite losing dlo, i now have to agree with the trade.
especially after seeing how kuzma and hart play.
may be we traded dlo early, but when you are in their shoes, you cannot afford to trade dlo 1 year too late with the 2 max plan of some variety.

Financial flexibility doesn't mean anything if you don't sign anyone. Trading DLO did one main thing: it let us get two maxes this year through 2020.

So let's say we sign PG13 and LeBron? Trade was a success.
Let's say we sign PG13 and then Klay in 2019? Trade was a success.
Let's say we sign PG13 and then AD in 2020? Trade was a success.

The problem is that the latter two scenarios is that there is another way to get a star: do what the Thunder did. What if the Pelicans in 2019-2020 covet Russell the way the Pacers coveted Oladipo? That might be the best way to get Anthony Davis onto the roster.

I think it's fair to say if the 2 max plan happens in 2018, it was a good trade. If it doesn't, it probably was a bad trade, pending DLO's knees.



Tox- the only thing that you're not accounting for is the possibility that DLO was going to have a negative effect on team chemistry. This year may have played out the same way it has if DLo was still on the team, but given his immaturity, attitude and lackadaisical approach to D, there is a very good chance he could have poisoned the locker room in a power struggle vs Zo.


We'll obviously never know for sure, but we can't assume everything would be exactly the same this year if DLo was on the team without acknowledging the strong possibility that it could have gone the other way.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Marginal talent was 21, 5.7, 4.7 before he got hurt.

We could use marginal talent as a backup PG.


His attitude was debatable when he was starting here.

Bringing him off the bench behind Lonzo? I think that would have been a bad idea for both players.


Eh, I'd rather have DAR than KCP.

It's been pretty clear since he joined Brooklyn that his attitude changed. So, why couldn't it change in LA?


We were all young and dumb once, but probably not making millions for playing a game and getting showered with media attention.

He had two radically different coaches and staffs in LA, but was still the same guy in both cases- he liked the NBA life but didn't want to put in the work. Sometimes you need a wake up call to change. It looks like the trade was a wake up call for him, which is good news, but I don't think he would have gotten that wake up call if he was still on the Lakers.

Instead, we could have easily had a lot of ugly behind the scenes chemistry problems, in a young players re-run of the Kobe-Dwight 2012-13 fiasco. I remain convinced that his liking of the tweet that said "Don't draft Lonzo" (or something similar that happened behind the scenes) was the straw that broke the camel's back as far as his stay in LA.

I think they were worried about DLO having a corrosive effect on team chemistry, and rightly so. This is the aspect of the trade that doesn't get discussed enough IMO.


tldr- Glad he's turned it around in BKN, but I don't think it would have happened here.


I agree it wouldn't have happened here, but I don't think that says good things about our organization.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
M2K wrote:
Rhazz wrote:
Remember this: Russel before he got hurt averaged 27-8-7 per 36. In his 3rd year. After all the garbage turmoil he had to go through in this clown show we got going on here. Just because you might’ve disliked the kid doesn’t change the fact that trading him was an absolutely idiotic move. Consoling yourself by thinking he wasn’t or isn’t going to be that good, or saying you’d rather have Kuzma is weak. Kid is an absolute assassin and if his health doesn’t derail him, which is possible, he will absolutely be one of the best players in the league. Only five other players averaged what he averaged statistically in their first 2 seasons and all of them are hall of famers.


2017 - 2018
PPG APG RPG PER
20.9 5.7 4.7 19.53

DLOs first year away from the hate and crazy house that was the Lakers during his time in LA.

DLOs current age: 21.... only 1 year older than Lonzo.

I'll say it again... you don't trade away young talent (with All Star potential) already in your hands hoping for LeBron James to sign onto a losing team.

Anyone... can do a salary dump sending away your best player at the time... but it takes real genius, shrewdness, etc to pull off a Pau Gasol trade.

Magic will be judged on the DLO trade based strictly on the free agent talent he gets to sign on with the Lakers.

Anything short of Lebron, Cousins and a lesser extent PG13... will be a big F grade to a trade that was completely unnecessary at the time.



i was really disappointed when dlo was traded.
however, the health issues have changed my mind.

also dlo may have been the best player on the team last year.
however, the deciding factor is do we think he is at least a #2 player in a championship team.
to me, lonzo could be that #2 but dlo probably is not, particularly given the health.

so despite losing dlo, i now have to agree with the trade.
especially after seeing how kuzma and hart play.
may be we traded dlo early, but when you are in their shoes, you cannot afford to trade dlo 1 year too late with the 2 max plan of some variety.

Financial flexibility doesn't mean anything if you don't sign anyone. Trading DLO did one main thing: it let us get two maxes this year through 2020.

So let's say we sign PG13 and LeBron? Trade was a success.
Let's say we sign PG13 and then Klay in 2019? Trade was a success.
Let's say we sign PG13 and then AD in 2020? Trade was a success.

The problem is that the latter two scenarios is that there is another way to get a star: do what the Thunder did. What if the Pelicans in 2019-2020 covet Russell the way the Pacers coveted Oladipo? That might be the best way to get Anthony Davis onto the roster.

I think it's fair to say if the 2 max plan happens in 2018, it was a good trade. If it doesn't, it probably was a bad trade, pending DLO's knees.


financial flexibility is meaningless if you sign no one.
but there are no guarantees so you must make decisions under uncertainty.
and no thanks to antonio davis (or embiid) given his injury history.

i really wonder if the lakers know more about dlo's knees than they say:
"Russell has a history of issues with both his knees. He missed 11 games with the Lakers in November and December last season with left knee soreness. There was no surgery, but he needed a platelet-rich plasma injection at one point. Then he sat out three more games in late January with an injured right knee."
https://www.netsdaily.com/2017/11/12/16639482/waiting-on-dlo-medical-update-a-brief-history-of-his-knee-woes
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:

Tox- the only thing that you're not accounting for is the possibility that DLO was going to have a negative effect on team chemistry. This year may have played out the same way it has if DLo was still on the team, but given his immaturity, attitude and lackadaisical approach to D, there is a very good chance he could have poisoned the locker room in a power struggle vs Zo.


We'll obviously never know for sure, but we can't assume everything would be exactly the same this year if DLo was on the team without acknowledging the strong possibility that it could have gone the other way.

I think it's possible, sure. But I don't think Russell was a cancer by any means. Immature, maybe, but that's the job of the coach to handle. It sure beats having a (bleep) convict only playing some games, and I don't think it'd be any more of a distraction than the Julius/ JC stuff hanging over the team right now.

I don't really buy into the narrative that he'd poison the locker room, personally. I've said it a million times, but the Lakers' starters last year (with (bleep) Nick Young, lazy Julius Randle, and MozDeng) were a pretty good defensive team against opponent starters in a huge a mount of minutes. So I don't agree with the conception of Russell as the non-defense playing sieve that he's often accused of in the first place -- I think he stopped playing defense once the team started tanking. That's immature and unprofessional but also sort of understandable. And I don't think he'd have been threatened by Lonzo if it were articulated that the Lakers backcourt will be Lonzo & him both, instead of (correctly) perceiving that the Lakers see Lonzo as his replacement.

It's a counterfactual so we'll never know for sure, but that's where I stand.
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