lonzo ball vs. draymond green
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socalsp3
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
defense wrote:
nomoreshaq wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jjangx27 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I've never seen a rookie PG play defensively big until now.


Very high praise for him Mike. does that mean you consider him a "generational" player like so many people like to say


I don't know about generational. That's super difficult.

I will say, new archetype.


lonzo seems as good as advertised. multiple all-star, all NBA level.

generational would be a once in a generation player i guess (kobe, lebron, shaq). not sure peak potential lonzo is that high but then again who knows. never thought kobe would have been.


Generational means different things to different people. To me Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, even Gasol are all generational players. Others have a stricter idea of what it means.


To me, like 1 in 50 years kind of thing. You get 1 Wilt, then Shaq. No Kareem, No Magic, No Hakeem, etc.


No MJ?
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:21 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
defense wrote:
nomoreshaq wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jjangx27 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I've never seen a rookie PG play defensively big until now.


Very high praise for him Mike. does that mean you consider him a "generational" player like so many people like to say


I don't know about generational. That's super difficult.

I will say, new archetype.


lonzo seems as good as advertised. multiple all-star, all NBA level.

generational would be a once in a generation player i guess (kobe, lebron, shaq). not sure peak potential lonzo is that high but then again who knows. never thought kobe would have been.


Generational means different things to different people. To me Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, even Gasol are all generational players. Others have a stricter idea of what it means.


To me, like 1 in 50 years kind of thing. You get 1 Wilt, then Shaq. No Kareem, No Magic, No Hakeem, etc.


No MJ?


Depends on how you see it. I mean, Kobe even played in the same decade.

MJ isn't my GOAT. Neither is Kobe.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, I can definitely see Lonzo as a Draymond-level player: a clear difference-maker on a championship team, but not an MVP-level guy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:37 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
defense wrote:
nomoreshaq wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jjangx27 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I've never seen a rookie PG play defensively big until now.


Very high praise for him Mike. does that mean you consider him a "generational" player like so many people like to say


I don't know about generational. That's super difficult.

I will say, new archetype.


lonzo seems as good as advertised. multiple all-star, all NBA level.

generational would be a once in a generation player i guess (kobe, lebron, shaq). not sure peak potential lonzo is that high but then again who knows. never thought kobe would have been.


Generational means different things to different people. To me Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, even Gasol are all generational players. Others have a stricter idea of what it means.


To me, like 1 in 50 years kind of thing. You get 1 Wilt, then Shaq. No Kareem, No Magic, No Hakeem, etc.


No MJ?


Depends on how you see it. I mean, Kobe even played in the same decade.

MJ isn't my GOAT. Neither is Kobe.



Wow. Extremely lofty standards
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:42 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
nomoreshaq wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jjangx27 wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
I've never seen a rookie PG play defensively big until now.


Very high praise for him Mike. does that mean you consider him a "generational" player like so many people like to say


I don't know about generational. That's super difficult.

I will say, new archetype.


lonzo seems as good as advertised. multiple all-star, all NBA level.

generational would be a once in a generation player i guess (kobe, lebron, shaq). not sure peak potential lonzo is that high but then again who knows. never thought kobe would have been.


Generational means different things to different people. To me Garnett, Duncan, Dirk, Wade, even Gasol are all generational players. Others have a stricter idea of what it means.


I always thought generational was used as the best of his generation. The best player in his class, the generational players are Russell, Wilt, Jabbar, Magic, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Lebron.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:50 am    Post subject:

Quote:

Wow. Extremely lofty standards


I'll put it this way. Magic at the same age as Lonzo, helped win the Lakers win the title next to Kareem and Wilkes. I don't care if the roster is pre-built. Dude played C without Kareem, and was arguably the 1st player to be a "small ball C" with guard advantages. How much farther ahead of your time do you have to be?

Didn't matter what coach. Didn't need an offensive system.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
Cool stats similarities.
But these guys play nothing alike

They actually do - low usage creators who space the floor and provide good (Lonzo) to elite (Dray) defense, particularly team defense.


A general overview comparison?
Maybe when players are compared I'm expecting them to play similar roles.
Just playing different positions and guarding different positions make it hard to compare imo.

I can't wait for someone to post their play types and frequencies.

I'd say NBA role/archetype. They're both effectively pass first PGs, but they're on the low end even among that group in terms of usage rate while having outsized offensive impact (I'm projecting Ball to get up there in ORPM). But maybe it's too broad of a category to be efficacious when you have Magic, Draymond, Lonzo, Kyle Lowry, Nate McMillan, and Darrell Armstrong all lumped together even on a continuum.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Yeah, I can definitely see Lonzo as a Draymond-level player: a clear difference-maker on a championship team, but not an MVP-level guy.

It'll depend on how Lonzo's offensive repertoire develops. If he can learn to finish at the rim adequately, hit his FTs, and refines his handle so he can punish the switches he's bound to see in playoff series, all while getting better at what he already does very well, why not?
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: lonzo ball vs. draymond green

nomoreshaq wrote:
Green: 10.7/7.8/7.6 in 31.8MPG, 31.6% 3 point shooting, 1.4 steals, 1.3 blocks
Ball: 10.2/7.1/7.1 in 33.7MPG, 30.9% 3 point shooting, 1.5 steals, .9 blocks


Wow, that is a very interesting comparison.

Much as I dislike Green's antics, it is obvious he does a lot of things that help the Warriors win. Which is exactly what Lonzo does, but minus the unnecessary antics.

For Lonzo to be essentially matching his numbers as a 20 year old rookie? I like it!
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

Magic wasn't a great scorer early in his career (the 42 point clincher in Philly not withstanding) but he did all the little things to win that the Lakers were NOT doing before he arrived.

In that way, it is very similar to what Lonzo brings.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject:

Lonzo has even higher bball IQ than Draymond.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Lonzo has even higher bball IQ than Draymond.


And better none basketball IQ as well. 😂
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

I think Lebron and Durant would be considered generational along with Shaq and Wilt. Lebron for obvious reasons and Durant for an insane amount of length coupled with the quickness of a guard. You probably won't see a physical profile like Durant again for a LONG time. People thought Ingram was it but he's nowhere near as agile or fluid.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: lonzo ball vs. draymond green

nomoreshaq wrote:
Green: 10.7/7.8/7.6 in 31.8MPG, 31.6% 3 point shooting, 1.4 steals, 1.3 blocks
Ball: 10.2/7.1/7.1 in 33.7MPG, 30.9% 3 point shooting, 1.5 steals, .9 blocks


Wow. Had no idea (seriously)...I think what really confirmed this for a number of us was the best 5 point game we've seen from a player in a really long time from Lonzo - dude was everywhere and hands in everything.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Lonzo has even higher bball IQ than Draymond.


Knows not to kick people in the nuts to get kicked out of important games, so far. But then again, the Lakers need to play in important games again.

Bye.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject:

I honestly think the comparison is a bit of an insult to Zo. His IQ is a million times Draymond, and a much better passer. Defense/rebounding is comparable. I think his shooting will trend toward being much better as well
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject:

Captain America wrote:
I honestly think the comparison is a bit of an insult to Zo. His IQ is a million times Draymond, and a much better passer. Defense/rebounding is comparable. I think his shooting will trend toward being much better as well


I don't think that's the context that is meant.

My interpretation is, Zo is the engine that keeps the offense running. There just so happens to be some statistical consistencies between both guys that somewhat reflect that. But Zo is light years ahead in terms of passing, hoop IQ, winning plays; wasn't a senior out of UCLA before declaring for the draft.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject: Re: lonzo ball vs. draymond green

nomoreshaq wrote:
Green: 10.7/7.8/7.6 in 31.8MPG, 31.6% 3 point shooting, 1.4 steals, 1.3 blocks
Ball: 10.2/7.1/7.1 in 33.7MPG, 30.9% 3 point shooting, 1.5 steals, .9 blocks
just wow !
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