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Capt.Skyhook Star Player
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Posts: 3991 Location: Louisville, Ky.
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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I can't imagine what the pitch would be to get PG to come here all by himself. "Come help us contend for a playoff spot."
This is a 2 max plan and I doubt Magic has seen enough from this group to feel he should deviate from that. |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I can't imagine what the pitch would be to get PG to come here all by himself. "Come help us contend for a playoff spot."
This is a 2 max plan and I doubt Magic has seen enough from this group to feel he should deviate from that. |
Ok, I'll help: "You see PG, we cleared enough space for one max guy this season and plan to add another after NEXT season" _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I can't imagine what the pitch would be to get PG to come here all by himself. "Come help us contend for a playoff spot."
This is a 2 max plan and I doubt Magic has seen enough from this group to feel he should deviate from that. |
You sell him on a 2 to 3 year plan. You sell him on a chance to create a legacy. In reality, unless he joins the Warriors, he isn't going to find a team next year that is going to win it all. He can stay with OKC and see that team get worse, not better. What other team has young, exciting talent and the cap-space to sign him and another max player this year or next?
Year 1: Lonzo, PG13, Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, Hart - that might be enough to be a 4-5 seed in the West.
Year 2: Lonzo, PG13, Ingram, Kuzma, Randle, Hart + 2nd Max player- you're now talking about a legit championship contender. |
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Doc JC Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2012 Posts: 3123
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
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AllorNothing Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2001 Posts: 18448
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I can't imagine what the pitch would be to get PG to come here all by himself. "Come help us contend for a playoff spot."
This is a 2 max plan and I doubt Magic has seen enough from this group to feel he should deviate from that. |
Or ask PG13 if he really wants to play with a ballhog like Westbrook. |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6280 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:23 am Post subject: |
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I don't think we will trade either until we have to. If PG13 does come here, we can re-sign Randle as the small ball center. Clarkson is our scoring backup guard. If we are getting another max free agent, then Randle won't be resigned, and we will trade Clarkson for whatever gets us out of the deal.
To me, you only trade Clarkson and Randle for draft picks, if you feel certain those picks get you out of the Deng deal. This year, I don't see any takers for Deng - we either stretch him this offseason or hold on to him for another year to see if his contract becomes tradable. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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irielight Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Posts: 598
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Keep this simple.
Keep Clarkson. He's the only comfortable shot creator at guard/wing.
Keep Randle. Defensive versatility at 5/4 is hard to find. I don't care about his numbers per 36, because we did see the best and worst out of Randle last game, and frankly, you can't build a franchise around that. He's not a franchise player.
1 MAX contract slot open. Get Paul George. You're already dropping KCP and Lopez. You may as well start Ingram, and put PG13.1 at 2. When Ingram sits, slide PG13.1 to 3, and play more Josh Hart anyway. No need for Avery Bradley here. Hart does the same thing, and is FAR ahead by age in terms of development.
Play Thomas Bryant/Zubac. Not only have they earned their PT from the G-League, but now you need the size at 5 with Lopez gone and Randle getting bigger minutes at 5/4.
Gone:
Lopez
KCP
Add:
PG13.1
Bump up:
Bryant
Zubac
Simple. If we need another back up 5 because the other 2 guys aren't ready, Noah Vonleh is adequate. If we need more shooting, Bjelica from Minny is available. |
This. Exactly this. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 am Post subject: |
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Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I can't imagine what the pitch would be to get PG to come here all by himself. "Come help us contend for a playoff spot."
This is a 2 max plan and I doubt Magic has seen enough from this group to feel he should deviate from that. |
And you think that pitching him that we’re gonna win rings right away with one All Star next to him is going to cut it when he couldn’t get it done with Westbrook, Melo, Adams alongside him?
The pitch is selling him on a long term vision. I think he’s going to be a little jaded on the idea you can throw a couple all stars together and just win rings. |
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King Randle Star Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2014 Posts: 7313
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I agree we just play it out until the end of the year with this group unless we get blown away with a deal. Once the season ends then decide if we need to move JC or let Randle go and pursue 2 FA's. It would be a disaster to move them now and then strike out in the off season with the top FA's |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:39 am Post subject: |
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AllorNothing wrote: | Capt.Skyhook wrote: | I can't imagine what the pitch would be to get PG to come here all by himself. "Come help us contend for a playoff spot."
This is a 2 max plan and I doubt Magic has seen enough from this group to feel he should deviate from that. |
Or ask PG13 if he really wants to play with a ballhog like Westbrook. |
I agree and want to add that Carmello has never been known for his ASSISTS... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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watchME Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2011 Posts: 3384
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I’d give up clarkson + nance for Lavine |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:43 am Post subject: |
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Doc JC wrote: | I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
The problem with 2019, if I recall correctly is that Klay is the only legit super star caliber player available unless someone else goes up a quantum level in skill. If we have inside info from Mychal or Klay himself that he wants to come home, he would be the perfect fit... but that would be the only reason I'd deviate from trying to sign two of the elites from this year. |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Doc JC wrote: | I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
The problem with 2019, if I recall correctly is that Klay is the only legit super star caliber player available unless someone else goes up a quantum level in skill. If we have inside info from Mychal or Klay himself that he wants to come home, he would be the perfect fit... but that would be the only reason I'd deviate from trying to sign two of the elites from this year. |
2019 doesn't have a lot of FA Stars, but if the Lakers have PG13 and Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Randle + cap space, the front office can then become very aggressive in trying to acquire a 2nd star through a trade.
Maybe the Grizzles want to rebuild and you get Gasol in a salary dump, same with Cavs and Love.
Lakers could also make a play for Jimmy Butler in 2019. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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It's a team-up or nothing. No one is signing up to be the lone savior on a crap team. That's the ultimate fantasy. |
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MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | Keep this simple.
Keep Clarkson. He's the only comfortable shot creator at guard/wing. |
Agreed. He's fallen off a bit, but if he gets back to where he was the 1st 5-6 weeks of the season, then his salary really isn't the overpay so many think it is.
Mike@LG wrote: | Keep Randle. Defensive versatility at 5/4 is hard to find. I don't care about his numbers per 36, because we did see the best and worst out of Randle last game, and frankly, you can't build a franchise around that. He's not a franchise player. |
Maybe not a franchise, but could be a worthy #4 or #5 guy - a quality rotation guy.
Mike@LG wrote: | 1 MAX contract slot open. Get Paul George. You're already dropping KCP and Lopez. You may as well start Ingram, and put PG13.1 at 2. When Ingram sits, slide PG13.1 to 3, and play more Josh Hart anyway. |
Been pushing this for a while as my hope for next year's plan. No point shaving off all our contributing, non-superstar potential guys and making the team worse BEFORE we actually have a big name signing on the dotted line. It's just Mitch and Jimbo 2.0 all over again. Hart is just the latest proof that our scouting/ talent evaluation department is WORKING, and we shouldn't just squander that on pipe dreams.
Mike@LG wrote: | No need for Avery Bradley here. Hart does the same thing, and is FAR ahead by age in terms of development. |
I would've disagreed with you on this a month ago, but if Hart keeps up with his steady growth, then I can re-evaluate. We still need a legit backup PG, though - and BADLY.
Mike@LG wrote: | Play Thomas Bryant/Zubac. Not only have they earned their PT from the G-League, but now you need the size at 5 with Lopez gone and Randle getting bigger minutes at 5/4. |
I can see that. If Zubac and Bryant combined can give us Bogut-like minutes (as in GSW-type minutes) and just eat up boards and set hard screens, then U have no problem with Randle playing 14-16 a game at PF and 14-16 at C.
Mike@LG wrote: | Gone:
Lopez
KCP
Add:
PG13.1
Bump up:
Bryant
Zubac
Simple. If we need another back up 5 because the other 2 guys aren't ready, Noah Vonleh is adequate. If we need more shooting, Bjelica from Minny is available. |
Yeah, I agree with the majority of this, and I'm tired of Cap Space being our most revered asset and exploitable disadvantage.
I'd rather see us develop a roster of quality guys again -- doesn't have to be all megastars, just quality PLAYERS -- and build from there again. |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6280 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't sound like the market is really strong for Randle at the deadline - interested teams will wait to bid in the offseason. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Doc JC wrote: | I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
The problem with 2019, if I recall correctly is that Klay is the only legit super star caliber player available unless someone else goes up a quantum level in skill. If we have inside info from Mychal or Klay himself that he wants to come home, he would be the perfect fit... but that would be the only reason I'd deviate from trying to sign two of the elites from this year. |
2019 doesn't have a lot of FA Stars, but if the Lakers have PG13 and Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Randle + cap space, the front office can then become very aggressive in trying to acquire a 2nd star through a trade.
Maybe the Grizzles want to rebuild and you get Gasol in a salary dump, same with Cavs and Love.
Lakers could also make a play for Jimmy Butler in 2019. |
I'm not sure Mark wants to play here after how we treated Pau... maybe there's no bad blood... but I'd think there might be. Also he's getting old.
Don't see why the Timberwolves would trade Jimmy Butler either.
Randle with max contract would make me nervous in terms our ability to move him... and I'm not sure he signs with us for much less. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46490
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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They had a chance to prove to the FO that they are difference makers and came out playing like dirt poo.... someone tell me what these guys can achieve on a championship team? There is a reason why the FO wants to go all in... these guys won’t cut it. |
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CantStopJM Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2017 Posts: 2992
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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How about we don't keep either of them?
If we can move on from Russell who was 2x the player either of them were/are, we can move on from Randle and we can definitely move on from Clarkson. |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | LakerMindLA wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Doc JC wrote: | I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
The problem with 2019, if I recall correctly is that Klay is the only legit super star caliber player available unless someone else goes up a quantum level in skill. If we have inside info from Mychal or Klay himself that he wants to come home, he would be the perfect fit... but that would be the only reason I'd deviate from trying to sign two of the elites from this year. |
2019 doesn't have a lot of FA Stars, but if the Lakers have PG13 and Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Randle + cap space, the front office can then become very aggressive in trying to acquire a 2nd star through a trade.
Maybe the Grizzles want to rebuild and you get Gasol in a salary dump, same with Cavs and Love.
Lakers could also make a play for Jimmy Butler in 2019. |
I'm not sure Mark wants to play here after how we treated Pau... maybe there's no bad blood... but I'd think there might be. Also he's getting old.
Don't see why the Timberwolves would trade Jimmy Butler either.
Randle with max contract would make me nervous in terms our ability to move him... and I'm not sure he signs with us for much less. |
Pretty sure Butler is a FA in 2019 as well. The max we should pay Randle is $14m per season.
If Lakers traded Clarkson, resigned KCP and Randle to deals at about $13m each and then signed PG13, I think we are looking at a very competitive team.
Lonzo
PG13 / KCP / Hart
Ingram / KCP / Hart
Kuzma / Nance
Randle
Lakers would then have 7 assets to bundle together to pair PG13 with another star if they can't sign one in 2019. |
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chazz Star Player
Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 2025
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Why would you want to keep those two...Both stop ball movement, both make really stupid numerous plays and are not worth the headache............Randle can be a beast but its time to go |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | LakerMindLA wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Doc JC wrote: | I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
The problem with 2019, if I recall correctly is that Klay is the only legit super star caliber player available unless someone else goes up a quantum level in skill. If we have inside info from Mychal or Klay himself that he wants to come home, he would be the perfect fit... but that would be the only reason I'd deviate from trying to sign two of the elites from this year. |
2019 doesn't have a lot of FA Stars, but if the Lakers have PG13 and Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Randle + cap space, the front office can then become very aggressive in trying to acquire a 2nd star through a trade.
Maybe the Grizzles want to rebuild and you get Gasol in a salary dump, same with Cavs and Love.
Lakers could also make a play for Jimmy Butler in 2019. |
I'm not sure Mark wants to play here after how we treated Pau... maybe there's no bad blood... but I'd think there might be. Also he's getting old.
Don't see why the Timberwolves would trade Jimmy Butler either.
Randle with max contract would make me nervous in terms our ability to move him... and I'm not sure he signs with us for much less. |
Pretty sure Butler is a FA in 2019 as well. The max we should pay Randle is $14m per season.
If Lakers traded Clarkson, resigned KCP and Randle to deals at about $13m each and then signed PG13, I think we are looking at a very competitive team.
Lonzo
PG13 / KCP / Hart
Ingram / KCP / Hart
Kuzma / Nance
Randle
Lakers would then have 7 assets to bundle together to pair PG13 with another star if they can't sign one in 2019. |
KCP and Randle think they are worth more than 13 million... KCP dumbly rejected 80 million for five I think. |
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LakerMindLA Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 5344
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: |
KCP and Randle think they are worth more than 13 million... KCP dumbly rejected 80 million for five I think. |
Yup. This is probably the worst offseason to be a FA in the last decade.
I would not be surprised if Randle signs for the qualifying offer. |
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bandiger Franchise Player
Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Posts: 12555
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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LakerMindLA wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | LakerMindLA wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Doc JC wrote: | I don’t see us getting two max this season, but I do think we can get a 2nd next year. Who that may be is anyone’s guess.
Honestly I would rather just add PG13 alone. Dengs contract will be easier to move with another season in the books.
I do think Clarkson is the one you move. Simply because you can find scorers much easier in the draft or FA. Plus I feel I would rather go after a backup PG and play Hart at the 2. That’s a better use of cap dollars IMO if we need to sign someone to a 1 year deal. |
The problem with 2019, if I recall correctly is that Klay is the only legit super star caliber player available unless someone else goes up a quantum level in skill. If we have inside info from Mychal or Klay himself that he wants to come home, he would be the perfect fit... but that would be the only reason I'd deviate from trying to sign two of the elites from this year. |
2019 doesn't have a lot of FA Stars, but if the Lakers have PG13 and Ingram, Ball, Kuzma and Randle + cap space, the front office can then become very aggressive in trying to acquire a 2nd star through a trade.
Maybe the Grizzles want to rebuild and you get Gasol in a salary dump, same with Cavs and Love.
Lakers could also make a play for Jimmy Butler in 2019. |
I'm not sure Mark wants to play here after how we treated Pau... maybe there's no bad blood... but I'd think there might be. Also he's getting old.
Don't see why the Timberwolves would trade Jimmy Butler either.
Randle with max contract would make me nervous in terms our ability to move him... and I'm not sure he signs with us for much less. |
Pretty sure Butler is a FA in 2019 as well. The max we should pay Randle is $14m per season.
If Lakers traded Clarkson, resigned KCP and Randle to deals at about $13m each and then signed PG13, I think we are looking at a very competitive team.
Lonzo
PG13 / KCP / Hart
Ingram / KCP / Hart
Kuzma / Nance
Randle
Lakers would then have 7 assets to bundle together to pair PG13 with another star if they can't sign one in 2019. |
I like this plan, kudos to you |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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CantStopJM wrote: | How about we don't keep either of them?
If we can move on from Russell who was 2x the player either of them were/are, we can move on from Randle and we can definitely move on from Clarkson. |
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