Cleveland Indians removing Chief Wahoo logo from jerseys, caps in 2019
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject: Cleveland Indians removing Chief Wahoo logo from jerseys, caps in 2019

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/indians-removing-chief-wahoo-logo-from-jerseys-caps-in-2019/ar-BBIpx61?li=BBnb7Kz

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Indians removing Chief Wahoo logo from jerseys, caps in 2019


CLEVELAND (AP) -- The Cleveland Indians are dropping the Chief Wahoo logo from their uniforms next year after decades of protests and complaints that the grinning, red-faced caricature used in one version or another since 1947 is racist.

The move, announced Monday, came after protracted discussions between team owner Paul Dolan and baseball Commissioner Rob Manfred.


The cartoonish image of a big-toothed American Indian with a scarlet face and a single feather in his headdress will come off the team's sleeves and caps starting with the 2019 season, when Cleveland will host the All-Star Game.

"Major League Baseball is committed to building a culture of diversity and inclusion throughout the game," Manfred said in a statement. He said the logo "is no longer appropriate for on-field use."

The decision is unlikely to quell complaints from Native American organizations and others who see the symbol -- and the team's very name -- as insensitive. The Indians will continue to wear the Wahoo logo in 2018, and even after it is gone from the uniform, the club will sell merchandise featuring the mascot in the Cleveland area.

"I'm elated," Philip Yenyo, executive director of the American Indian Movement of Ohio, said of the decision to remove Wahoo from uniforms. "But at the same time, I think it should be this year. I don't understand why they're drawing this out. It doesn't make any sense to me, unless they want to continue to make what's basically blood money."

He added: "Just make the leap already."

Yenyo and others have demanded that the team go further and drop "Indians" as its name: "If they don't get rid of the name, then you're still going to have fans going down there wearing headdresses and painted in redface."

Amid the intensifying debate, the club has slowly moved away from the logo in recent years. The Indians replaced it with a "C" as their primary logo and removed signs depicting Chief Wahoo from Progressive Field, the team's ballpark.

There was no immediate reaction from Indians players.

"It's a big disappointment," Jeremiah Baker said at a sporting goods store in suburban Westlake as he picked through a clearance bin of caps with his wife and two children. "Chief Wahoo has been so iconic for so many years, and I understand that some people may be offended, but it's a blow to native Clevelanders."

National criticism and scrutiny over Chief Wahoo grew in 2016, when the Indians made the World Series and Manfred expressed his desire to have the team drop the symbol. During the playoffs, a lawsuit was filed while the club was playing in Toronto to have the logo and team name banned from Canadian TV. A judge dismissed the case.

The Indians' bid to host the 2019 All-Star Game heightened the debate.

"While we recognize many of our fans have a longstanding attachment to Chief Wahoo, I'm ultimately in agreement with Commissioner Manfred's desire to remove the logo from our uniforms in 2019," Dolan said in announcing the decision.

The presence of the Wahoo logo is likely to remain strong in the stands on caps, T-shirts and signs, and other Native American references in the stadium will probably persist. For over 40 years, one fan, John Adams, has pounded a tom-tom in the left-field bleachers.

The team will continue to sell Chief Wahoo gear because if it stops doing so, it will lose ownership of the trademark, and others will be able to use the symbol as they please.

Reaction to the announcement was swift on social media as fans took sides on a touchy topic that has become part of the Cleveland sports landscape for generations.

Every year, Native American groups have protested outside the stadium before the home opener in hopes of getting the Indians not only to abolish Chief Wahoo but to change the team name.

Many fans are dedicated to preserving Chief Wahoo and see the logo as a symbol of the city's resurgence in the mid-1990s, when the Indians opened their new ballpark and the team made the World Series for the first time since 1954.

The NFL's Washington Redskins have come under similar pressure to change their less-cartoonish Indian-head logo and their name but so far have resisted. Last year, a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in another case made it clear that the Redskins name cannot be stripped of trademark protection just because some find it offensive.

Stanford, Illinois and Dartmouth are among the colleges and universities that have dropped Native American nicknames or symbols for their teams over the years.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject:

About time. It should've been done a long time ago. Manfred is too much of a chicken$#@ commissioner to enact any real change though. That was obvious when houston got a slap on the wrist with the World Series racist gesture controversy.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:20 pm    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:38 pm    Post subject:

Lol, way to wait a year so you can profit off the final year of the old one, and selling the old version locally in the future.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Lol, way to wait a year so you can profit off the final year of the old one, and selling the old version locally in the future.


I would make an educated guess that the caps and jerseys have already been made for 2018, or perhaps that someone has a contract with one more year on it. Otherwise, continuing the caps and sleeves makes no sense. It’s not like people are going to horde 2018 caps as memorabilia.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.


have you ever agreed with anyone about anything in your entire life?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject:

I wonder if this will have any affect on Daniel Snyder?

sickside323 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.


have you ever agreed with anyone about anything in your entire life?


contrarian

noun

Definition of contrarian for English Language Learners


: a person who takes an opposite or different position or attitude from other people
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Lol, way to wait a year so you can profit off the final year of the old one, and selling the old version locally in the future.


If they quit selling it someone can use it in the future.

I'm an Indians fan and I really don't care if keep it or not. Not a big deal to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject:

sickside323 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.


have you ever agreed with anyone about anything in your entire life?


Of course! But I have my own opinions on things.

I just don’t think it’s that big a deal. They’re changing their logo. Who cares? If that’s what they want to do, then so be it, it’s their business.

They can keep it, they can change it. If they feel it is in their best business interest to change it, cool.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
sickside323 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.


have you ever agreed with anyone about anything in your entire life?


Of course! But I am ignorant about most things.

I just don’t think it’s that big a deal. They’re changing their logo. Who cares? If that’s what they want to do, then so be it, it’s their business.

They can keep it, they can change it. If they feel it is in their best business interest to change it, cool.


Fixed it for you.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject:

lakeshow03 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
sickside323 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.


have you ever agreed with anyone about anything in your entire life?


Of course! But I am ignorant about most things.

I just don’t think it’s that big a deal. They’re changing their logo. Who cares? If that’s what they want to do, then so be it, it’s their business.

They can keep it, they can change it. If they feel it is in their best business interest to change it, cool.


Fixed it for you.


That seems mildly inappropriate for a discussion about a logo. You’re upset because I think it should be the business’ choice to do with their logo as they please?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
lakeshow03 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
sickside323 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Much ado about nothing IMO. Up to them what they want their logo to be.

If people don't like it, don't go to their games.


have you ever agreed with anyone about anything in your entire life?


Of course! But I am ignorant about most things.

I just don’t think it’s that big a deal. They’re changing their logo. Who cares? If that’s what they want to do, then so be it, it’s their business.

They can keep it, they can change it. If they feel it is in their best business interest to change it, cool.


Fixed it for you.


That seems mildly inappropriate for a discussion about a logo. You’re upset because I think it should be the business’ choice to do with their logo as they please?


You know it's about more than just a logo - it's about what the logo is.

But once again you're being a disingenuous ass in order to play your silly, arrogant contrarian games.

It'd be comical if it wasn't so tired and pathetic.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Lol, way to wait a year so you can profit off the final year of the old one, and selling the old version locally in the future.


I would make an educated guess that the caps and jerseys have already been made for 2018, or perhaps that someone has a contract with one more year on it. Otherwise, continuing the caps and sleeves makes no sense. It’s not like people are going to horde 2018 caps as memorabilia.


Yeah, I think any decision to have it for this last year comes less from an economic standpoint of being able to profit from doing so, but from the standpoint of that the costs of changing it now don't make sense.

Now one can certainly make the argument that if they really cared, they'd take the financial hit of having to remanufacture and re-lisence no matter what it was. But I doubt that it is fair that they made that choice from a position of pure greed.

As you say, it's doubtful that enough people are going to snatch up the merchandise in order to hoard the outgoing logo. And one could argue that changing sooner rather than later would drive MORE sales because people would want the latest gear, not the gear that's about to go away.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject:

There’s little to no doubt that they timed this (as well as continuing in the future to sell the logo locally in limited fashion) to maximize their last year sales.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:05 am    Post subject:

up yer butt Jobu
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
There’s little to no doubt that they timed this (as well as continuing in the future to sell the logo locally in limited fashion) to maximize their last year sales.


Well there's certainly no doubt they made the most sound financial decision in regards to dealing with merchandising during the switch. That doesn't mean that they exploited the change. If that was the goal it would make more sense to make the switch right away and make both logos available simultaneously and in all markets.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
You know it's about more than just a logo - it's about what the logo is.

But once again you're being a disingenuous ass in order to play your silly, arrogant contrarian games.

It'd be comical if it wasn't so tired and pathetic.


Of course I know it is allegedly more than just a logo for some people. I just don't view it as anything more than a logo. And I never said I was opposed to them making the change. If that's what they want to do, if that is what they feel is in their best interests, then so be it. Same with McDonald's. Or the Lakers. Or whatever other business wants to change their logo.

I'm just surprised, and then not at all surprised at the same time in the world of virtue signaling, that people would believe a sports team that is still called The Indians has suddenly pivoted, because they are changing their visual mark. Are you going to celebrate inclusion if the Redskins keep their name and change their logo to a clear circle?

It's just a logo change.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There’s little to no doubt that they timed this (as well as continuing in the future to sell the logo locally in limited fashion) to maximize their last year sales.


Well there's certainly no doubt they made the most sound financial decision in regards to dealing with merchandising during the switch. That doesn't mean that they exploited the change. If that was the goal it would make more sense to make the switch right away and make both logos available simultaneously and in all markets.


Having both logos simultaneously would not IMO make the most financial sense. They would have to allocate double the shelf space to feature both and this is a case where it is a zero sum game. Few people are going to buy both jerseys so it's more likely that majority of people would buy the new, some would buy the old, and some would buy both.

Putting their true intents aside, I don't think the delay is intended to maximize sales of the "old" jersey, but more, minimize the losses that are inevitable when they pull remaining inventory of the old off the shelf. A strategy to maximize sales of the old, would involve not making the switch until all or most of the old inventory has sold through.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There’s little to no doubt that they timed this (as well as continuing in the future to sell the logo locally in limited fashion) to maximize their last year sales.


Well there's certainly no doubt they made the most sound financial decision in regards to dealing with merchandising during the switch. That doesn't mean that they exploited the change. If that was the goal it would make more sense to make the switch right away and make both logos available simultaneously and in all markets.


Having both logos simultaneously would not IMO make the most financial sense. They would have to allocate double the shelf space to feature both and this is a case where it is a zero sum game. Few people are going to buy both jerseys so it's more likely that majority of people would buy the new, some would buy the old, and some would buy both.

Putting their true intents aside, I don't think the delay is intended to maximize sales of the "old" jersey, but more, minimize the losses that are inevitable when they pull remaining inventory of the old off the shelf. A strategy to maximize sales of the old, would involve not making the switch until all or most of the old inventory has sold through.


As AH theorized.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
up yer butt Jobu



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject:

My suggestion would be, keep Chief Wahoo, lose the grin, give him a warrior look.
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Last edited by jodeke on Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject:

"My suggestion would be to keep Chief Wahoo, lose the grin, give him a warrior look."


^yes, and have him scalping a white man too would be awesome!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

ChickenBeckerman wrote:
"My suggestion would be to keep Chief Wahoo, lose the grin, give him a warrior look."


^yes, and have him scalping a white man too would be awesome!



Quote:

CLEVELAND (AP) -- The Cleveland Indians are dropping the Chief Wahoo logo from their uniforms next year after decades of protests and complaints that the grinning, red-faced caricature used in one version or another since 1947 is racist.


I understand the disgruntlement having had to deal with the Steppin Fletcher, foot shuffling, Yasa Masa, stereotype.

Why not make this a teaching moment? Replace the face with one of dignity, showing the real pride of Native Americans. It would be a progressive step in the right direction.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject:

Change the Minnesota Vikings logo as well. I find it offensive.
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