The $250 Million Paul George Question: Will OKC Break Bank to Keep Superstar?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. But with differing ownership stakes, one could also argue that it's more difficult to get a consensus on whether to spend 250-300m .


That's not really how ownership groups function (it's not like Jeanie has to get a consensus from all her siblings and other partners before the team offers a big free agent contract).

Beyond that, I'm in the camp that thinks the Thunder thought all this through and decided to offer him a max decision before they made the trade; all this "will they or won't they" is just reporters filling space and fans killing time.


So the guys who put up the most $ (over Clay Bennett) won't have any (or minimal) say about how the franchise proceeds? Highly doubt that.

Buss family was a trust. These are several co-owners. I doubt Clay just does what he wants without the tacit approval of his co-owners.

And if OKC does re-sign PG13, my point has been that they will inevitably cost cut (Adams will be the likely sacrifice) b/c there is no way they can sustain the repeated repeater tax.


All reports are that they are willing to give it a couple of seasons to see what happens. That fits perfectly with George’s window of 30% max and 35% max.


Or, it makes 100% that the FO would say this b/f PG13 is signed? What else would they say?

My contention is that IF he's signed, he should be aware they likely cut their bill by moving guys like Adams.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. But with differing ownership stakes, one could also argue that it's more difficult to get a consensus on whether to spend 250-300m .


That's not really how ownership groups function (it's not like Jeanie has to get a consensus from all her siblings and other partners before the team offers a big free agent contract).

Beyond that, I'm in the camp that thinks the Thunder thought all this through and decided to offer him a max decision before they made the trade; all this "will they or won't they" is just reporters filling space and fans killing time.


So the guys who put up the most $ (over Clay Bennett) won't have any (or minimal) say about how the franchise proceeds? Highly doubt that.

Buss family was a trust. These are several co-owners. I doubt Clay just does what he wants without the tacit approval of his co-owners.

And if OKC does re-sign PG13, my point has been that they will inevitably cost cut (Adams will be the likely sacrifice) b/c there is no way they can sustain the repeated repeater tax.



You misunderstood me.

Of course, the owners are going to have a say. But it's not like they have to vote on every issue or forge a consensus on every issue.

As I said before, my guess is the Thunder owners have already worked through these issues. I doubt they traded for George knowing he'd be a free agent without thinking about or discussing the long term implications.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Thunder cut costs. I doubt it will be Adams, though, because he's too important to their success. The most likely cut is Carmelo; they'd look for some team to take him off their hands or just accept they have to pay tax for one year before he's gone.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

Melo has a no trade clause. And no. I doubt Okc keeps WB/pg/Adams even if melo is gone. The 3 would be close to 100m.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject:

Randle started out the year slow but has played pretty well lately. I would trade Clarkson first. But if Lebron isnt coming and PG doesnt come, what is the point of clearing cap space?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject:

foreveralakerfan wrote:
Randle started out the year slow but has played pretty well lately. I would trade Clarkson first. But if Lebron isnt coming and PG doesnt come, what is the point of clearing cap space?


I agree, if the Lakers dump Clarkson and Randle in hopes of landing some big stars and end up signing no big stars, then they will be losing 40 ppg, 15 rpg, a ton of fire power off the bench and will def. regress...

As for George, if signing him to a max deal will cost them $50+million in fines, then I think they have to let him walk or trade him before the trade deadline like the Clipps did with Griffin...!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. But with differing ownership stakes, one could also argue that it's more difficult to get a consensus on whether to spend 250-300m .


That's not really how ownership groups function (it's not like Jeanie has to get a consensus from all her siblings and other partners before the team offers a big free agent contract).

Beyond that, I'm in the camp that thinks the Thunder thought all this through and decided to offer him a max decision before they made the trade; all this "will they or won't they" is just reporters filling space and fans killing time.


So the guys who put up the most $ (over Clay Bennett) won't have any (or minimal) say about how the franchise proceeds? Highly doubt that.

Buss family was a trust. These are several co-owners. I doubt Clay just does what he wants without the tacit approval of his co-owners.

And if OKC does re-sign PG13, my point has been that they will inevitably cost cut (Adams will be the likely sacrifice) b/c there is no way they can sustain the repeated repeater tax.



As I said before, my guess is the Thunder owners have already worked through these issues. I doubt they traded for George knowing he'd be a free agent without thinking about or discussing the long term implications.


It's important to remember that when OKC traded for George it wasn't with the expectation that he would necessarily be re-signed. OKC had two important ulterior motives when they traded for George. 1. Free themselves of Oladipo's horrible contract (which turned out to not be so horrible to the surprise of everyone) and 2. To give Westbrook the confidence to sign a long-term extension that summer.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

ToastedMuffins wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. But with differing ownership stakes, one could also argue that it's more difficult to get a consensus on whether to spend 250-300m .


That's not really how ownership groups function (it's not like Jeanie has to get a consensus from all her siblings and other partners before the team offers a big free agent contract).

Beyond that, I'm in the camp that thinks the Thunder thought all this through and decided to offer him a max decision before they made the trade; all this "will they or won't they" is just reporters filling space and fans killing time.


So the guys who put up the most $ (over Clay Bennett) won't have any (or minimal) say about how the franchise proceeds? Highly doubt that.

Buss family was a trust. These are several co-owners. I doubt Clay just does what he wants without the tacit approval of his co-owners.

And if OKC does re-sign PG13, my point has been that they will inevitably cost cut (Adams will be the likely sacrifice) b/c there is no way they can sustain the repeated repeater tax.



As I said before, my guess is the Thunder owners have already worked through these issues. I doubt they traded for George knowing he'd be a free agent without thinking about or discussing the long term implications.


It's important to remember that when OKC traded for George it wasn't with the expectation that he would necessarily be re-signed. OKC had two important ulterior motives when they traded for George. 1. Free themselves of Oladipo's horrible contract (which turned out to not be so horrible to the surprise of everyone) and 2. To give Westbrook the confidence to sign a long-term extension that summer.


That might have been your opinion but OKC let it be known that they were making the trade to compete for a couple of years and spend accordingly.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

Trade Clarkson, keep Randle.
Randle's abilities are much harder to get.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ToastedMuffins wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. But with differing ownership stakes, one could also argue that it's more difficult to get a consensus on whether to spend 250-300m .


That's not really how ownership groups function (it's not like Jeanie has to get a consensus from all her siblings and other partners before the team offers a big free agent contract).

Beyond that, I'm in the camp that thinks the Thunder thought all this through and decided to offer him a max decision before they made the trade; all this "will they or won't they" is just reporters filling space and fans killing time.


So the guys who put up the most $ (over Clay Bennett) won't have any (or minimal) say about how the franchise proceeds? Highly doubt that.

Buss family was a trust. These are several co-owners. I doubt Clay just does what he wants without the tacit approval of his co-owners.

And if OKC does re-sign PG13, my point has been that they will inevitably cost cut (Adams will be the likely sacrifice) b/c there is no way they can sustain the repeated repeater tax.



As I said before, my guess is the Thunder owners have already worked through these issues. I doubt they traded for George knowing he'd be a free agent without thinking about or discussing the long term implications.


It's important to remember that when OKC traded for George it wasn't with the expectation that he would necessarily be re-signed. OKC had two important ulterior motives when they traded for George. 1. Free themselves of Oladipo's horrible contract (which turned out to not be so horrible to the surprise of everyone) and 2. To give Westbrook the confidence to sign a long-term extension that summer.


That might have been your opinion but OKC let it be known that they were making the trade to compete for a couple of years and spend accordingly.


That's fine if you believe that but no front office or credible NBA reporter feels the same as you.

The Thunder will need to offload salary. Ownership will not carry a $250 million payroll, especially not for a roster that isn't of championship caliber.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject:

ToastedMuffins wrote:

It's important to remember that when OKC traded for George it wasn't with the expectation that he would necessarily be re-signed. OKC had two important ulterior motives when they traded for George. 1. Free themselves of Oladipo's horrible contract (which turned out to not be so horrible to the surprise of everyone) and 2. To give Westbrook the confidence to sign a long-term extension that summer.



I know a lot of people have said all that; it's anyone's guess how much of it is actually true.

I have trouble believing they traded for George with no intension of trying to resign him just to sucker Westbrook into agreeing to a max deal.

Like they say, we'll see what happens.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:17 am    Post subject:

We will see if Presti tries to get out in front of the financial situation before the trade deadline. Reported to be in discussions with Chicago over Tony Allen. Might be trying to shed some salary in the process. Abrines, Patterson, Roberson and Singler all have salary they could look to get off from.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
We will see if Presti tries to get out in front of the financial situation before the trade deadline. Reported to be in discussions with Chicago over Tony Allen. Might be trying to shed some salary in the process. Abrines, Patterson, Roberson and Singler all have salary they could look to get off from.


They really don’t have any assets to offload them
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject:

Looking at the OKC Team salary listed on Hoops Hype:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/oklahoma_city_thunder/

If George and Anthony do NOT opt out, it looks like the OKC Team roster would be around $142mil, if George opts out and resigns for an additional $10mil, then that does go up to $152mil!

Assuming the salary cap is around $102mil, and as a four-time offender, OKC will be on the hook for $50mil of Over-the-Cap fines!

That is huge, I don't see how any of the people who would be losing that $50mil would agree to taking that kind of hit, especially when it does NOT put together a Team capable of beating the Warriors or Rockets.

And if they try to cry poverty to George and expect him to give them a discount, that certainly opens the door for the Lakers (and possibly Clippers) to make a run at him...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject:

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
Laker's Fan wrote:
We will see if Presti tries to get out in front of the financial situation before the trade deadline. Reported to be in discussions with Chicago over Tony Allen. Might be trying to shed some salary in the process. Abrines, Patterson, Roberson and Singler all have salary they could look to get off from.


They really don’t have any assets to offload them



Abrines and Singler both have 1 year deals at about $5 million each. It's not a stretch to think Presti could convince Chicago to do something like Allen for Abrines and a 2nd. Might take two to move Singler.

Pritchard in Indy remains a big Presti guy. They have three guys with non-guaranteed deals next year in Collison, Jefferson, Bogdanovic. It's almost like they signed perfect contracts to help OKC balance their books. Something like Jefferson for Patterson and Abrines wouldn't be out of the question. Maybe with a 2nd or two you could swap Patterson for Singler or Jefferson for Collison in that deal.

I will actually be surprised if Presti doesn't do a future salary cutting deal like this before the deadline. Could still make the move around the draft but the cost might go up.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

unleasHell wrote:
Looking at the OKC Team salary listed on Hoops Hype:

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/oklahoma_city_thunder/

If George and Anthony do NOT opt out, it looks like the OKC Team roster would be around $142mil, if George opts out and resigns for an additional $10mil, then that does go up to $152mil!

Assuming the salary cap is around $102mil, and as a four-time offender, OKC will be on the hook for $50mil of Over-the-Cap fines!

That is huge, I don't see how any of the people who would be losing that $50mil would agree to taking that kind of hit, especially when it does NOT put together a Team capable of beating the Warriors or Rockets.

And if they try to cry poverty to George and expect him to give them a discount, that certainly opens the door for the Lakers (and possibly Clippers) to make a run at him...
The most important question the owners face is will they have a team that can seriously challenge the Warriors.

IMHO - because OKC plays great D and they have great firepower to beat the Rockets (plus they would not beat the Warriors in any playoff series).

OKC can be a “top heavy” team with a weak or very young bench

OKC can be without both of their stars while facing the ire of Westbrook

OKC can be without one of their stars and try to get another lower price star within their cap space (not a great reality)

OKC can bite the bullet for one season then do a Blake Griffin type trade with PG13. With the owners having gone through similar scenarios in the past (Harden, Durant, Jackson, Ibaka), will they continue their legacy and not get a ring or will they be serious about winning a title always bring ancillary income.

Winning owners (like the late Jerry Buss) know that winning titles is the top goal that brings in $$$$. Many owners are interested in $$$$ before winning titles (if they will ever win titles - how many different teams have won titles)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject:

The huge price tag to keep OKC together is staggering but if that wasn't the plan why did they trade for Carmelo?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
The huge price tag to keep OKC together is staggering but if that wasn't the plan why did they trade for Carmelo?


I think they figured the team was good for a deep playoff run. Good chance hey start the playoffs on the road against a better team.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject:

I don’t see them paying that much luxury tax unless the advance deep into the playoffs, at least the western conference championship round.

They are a small market team and do not have good local TV revenues. Now it looks like they are going to go to battle without making a trade.

If they sign PG13 there only option is to trade Adams and they would need to find a team that isn’t sending any salary back which will not be easy.

Expect Anthony to pick up his players option and he has a no trade so he won’t be moved.

They could do a sign and trade with PG13 and take back less money if they were to trade with a team like the Lakers who will have cap space.

Anyway the Thunder don’t look like the are going to go deep into the playoffs and are kind of between a rock and a hard place. May lose PG13 for nothing if they don’t trade him.

Love to see PG13 for Clarkson and Nance and maybe Zubac or Hart. Brewer would probably need to be added to make the cap work.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
I don’t see them paying that much luxury tax unless the advance deep into the playoffs, at least the western conference championship round.

They are a small market team and do not have good local TV revenues. Now it looks like they are going to go to battle without making a trade.

If they sign PG13 there only option is to trade Adams and they would need to find a team that isn’t sending any salary back which will not be easy.

Expect Anthony to pick up his players option and he has a no trade so he won’t be moved.

They could do a sign and trade with PG13 and take back less money if they were to trade with a team like the Lakers who will have cap space.

Anyway the Thunder don’t look like the are going to go deep into the playoffs and are kind of between a rock and a hard place. May lose PG13 for nothing if they don’t trade him.

Love to see PG13 for Clarkson and Nance and maybe Zubac or Hart. Brewer would probably need to be added to make the cap work.


No Brewer as his contract ends this june.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:48 pm    Post subject:

Thunder have some top shelf talent but it's not too much of a stretch to think they could turn into a version of the CP3/Blake/DJ Clippers without the benefit of the big market.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject:

rogers49 wrote:
oldlakerfan wrote:
I don’t see them paying that much luxury tax unless the advance deep into the playoffs, at least the western conference championship round.

They are a small market team and do not have good local TV revenues. Now it looks like they are going to go to battle without making a trade.

If they sign PG13 there only option is to trade Adams and they would need to find a team that isn’t sending any salary back which will not be easy.

Expect Anthony to pick up his players option and he has a no trade so he won’t be moved.

They could do a sign and trade with PG13 and take back less money if they were to trade with a team like the Lakers who will have cap space.

Anyway the Thunder don’t look like the are going to go deep into the playoffs and are kind of between a rock and a hard place. May lose PG13 for nothing if they don’t trade him.

Love to see PG13 for Clarkson and Nance and maybe Zubac or Hart. Brewer would probably need to be added to make the cap work.
.

No Brewer as his contract ends this june.


I would like to see that trade happen before the deadline I should have been more clear.

No need to match contracts once we have cap space in the off season. An uneven $$ Sign and trade would seem would give OKC some value for PG13 while not taking back equal $$. They might even want Hart instead fo JC.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject:

Don't the Thunder sell out most (if not all) of their home games?

If so, then they have a fan base that supports them through thick and thin and will continue to show up with or without PG13...

Plus they got PG13, then Anthony, so my guess is that they will be just as happy keeping only one to pair with Westbrook.

Plus the Thunder are in a SUPER tough spot trying to trade PG13, n team is going to want to give equivalent talent as with all the talk about him wanting to sign with the Lakers!

Plus the Lakers are not going to give much up, knowing they could sign him in the off season..
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:23 am    Post subject:

ToastedMuffins wrote:


The Thunder will need to offload salary. Ownership will not carry a $250 million payroll, especially not for a roster that isn't of championship caliber.


That sums up well. They would make a sacrifice if they were playing like Houston: 2nd in the league, .745 campaign and a legit chance to beat the Dubs. But, now they are #5 in the West, closer to #8 Denver than to #4 Minnesota and went 1-4 since they lost their cheaper starter.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:03 am    Post subject:

PG13 is not superstar that's for sure.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:48 am    Post subject:

blackmamba08 wrote:
PG13 is not superstar that's for sure.


Imo he is a top 10-15 player in the league, but depending on which game people watch (i.e., the games where he barely touches the ball due to Melo and Russ) they might think he’s nothing special.

Against Denver he looked like a superstar and he has those games when Russ and Melo defer. I see him as in that bottom of tier II or top of tier III.

Tier I 1-5
Tier II 6-12
Tier III 13-20
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