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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
tox wrote:
I am a millennial and I don't know literally anyone who got and/or wanted a participation trophy. You think an 8 year old cares about a participation trophy? You think a 16 y/o varsity track athlete wants an award for getting 8/8 at league finals? (bleep) no.

This is such a stupid meme and I have no idea where it came from. Participation trophies, if they existed at all, are for millennials' parents.


This is completely true. The participation trophy concept was the idea of well intentioned though misguided previous generations who imposed it upon the youth.

But that doesn't mean the message that everyone who shows up deserves the same amount of success and recognition doesn't come with a downside.

Sure and nobody, including millennials, disagrees with the latter statement. Just go listen to any college student rant about deadweight in group projects. By definition that is an acknowledgement that simply being on the team does not make you worthy of all the credit.

I'm not sure where this caricature began but it subsists solely on confirmation bias.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ringfinger wrote:


At the same time, gotta give millennials some credit too. There are many doing incredible things much in part thanks to the internet which has leveled the playing field for them. I mean, Mark freakin Zuckerberg is a millennial.


And Steve Jobs was NOT . . . and only had a garage, a some buddies and an idea.

Again, there's nothing remarkable about this generation. The successful ones haven't done anything that previous generations haven't done. And the less successful have had the same obstacles their predecessors did.


Yeah, believe me, I’m the last person that’s going to celebrate the millennial as some kind of model generation. And you’re right, in every generation, there has been a Zuckerberg. Jobs was about 21 when he launched Apple and Gates was around the same age when he started Microsoft.

Just saying though that in spite of the bad, there is some good with this generation relative to ours and others. They may be soft as (bleep), but, they’re also well educated and other than the one that have gone full commie, are generally IMO, the most tolerant generation ever.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject:

The bottomline is that it's never about a generation of people. It's about the individuals who comprise it. There are successful ones, compassionate ones, progressive ones or lazy ones.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


I work from home 2 days a week. It's nice. Here are a few reasons why it might by a good idea for a business to allow its employees to work from home:

https://torchlighthire.com/leading-reasons-let-employees-work-home-one-day-week/


I don’t disagree about the efficiency of working from home or even a 4 day work week.

However, you completely missed the mark here on context. My comment was directly related to the Interview comment I responded to. I’ve been asked that 5 times in the last two months while interviewing candidates for an on site support staff role. As if somehow they expect that at some point I’ll stop asking them to come to work and do their job because “they’ve earned it”. Even though the job requires them to be physically present in order to fulfill the job duties. And that, is something I only encounter from a certain age group, before you ask I’m 38 and it’s not my age group I’m referring to.


I did get the context of your comment. My point is that I'm not sure why it would be a knock for an interviewer to ask this upfront. I'd argue that people who are interviewing should ask more questions like this so they know exactly what they are getting into, and also where their potential boss stands on certain topics that are likely to come up if they are hired.


So, would you consider the Job title “Inside Sales” ambiguous or in some way negotiable?

Would you go to the interview thinking. Hmm, maybe my ideas are so smart and original, heck, I’ll probably walk out with an offer and a promotion?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:59 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
tox wrote:
I am a millennial and I don't know literally anyone who got and/or wanted a participation trophy. You think an 8 year old cares about a participation trophy? You think a 16 y/o varsity track athlete wants an award for getting 8/8 at league finals? (bleep) no.

This is such a stupid meme and I have no idea where it came from. Participation trophies, if they existed at all, are for millennials' parents.


This is completely true. The participation trophy concept was the idea of well intentioned though misguided previous generations who imposed it upon the youth.

But that doesn't mean the message that everyone who shows up deserves the same amount of success and recognition doesn't come with a downside.

Sure and nobody, including millennials, disagrees with the latter statement. Just go listen to any college student rant about deadweight in group projects. By definition that is an acknowledgement that simply being on the team does not make you worthy of all the credit.

I'm not sure where this caricature began but it subsists solely on confirmation bias.


To be fair, the notion of participation trophy era, isn’t restricited to participation trophies. Somewhere around the 80s, they started giving out awards for participating but also, youth sports teams started invoking mercy rules, and a myriad of other odd tactics to “level” the playing field.

There’s an HBO documentary on it. There was a smal trophy company doing like $40K a year in business and then starting in the 80s, they ballooned to become a $50M company.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject:

Here’s a synopsis of that documentary: http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/20/hbos-real-sports-looks-into-americas-trophy-culture/

Quote:
This movement has apparently spiraled out of control. “Preschoolers sometimes now sing a song to the tune of ‘Frère Jacques’ that goes like this, ‘I am special I am special look at me look at me,'” according to San Diego State University professor Jean Twenge.

This push to make every child feel special leads to problems in college. A study highlighted in Goldberg’s report shows that a third of college students say they deserve a B grade as long as they attend most classes in a course.


And so it goes that now they need safe spaces to shield themselves from the world’s realities.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject:

I think some of the blame goes to some parents of millennials. For the last few decades we've lived in a progressively worse culture of fear, which has given rise to "helicopter parents". That kind of parenting can lead to a lack of confidence, independence and yes, even what seems like self-entitlement once those kids reach adulthood.
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
tox wrote:
I am a millennial and I don't know literally anyone who got and/or wanted a participation trophy. You think an 8 year old cares about a participation trophy? You think a 16 y/o varsity track athlete wants an award for getting 8/8 at league finals? (bleep) no.

This is such a stupid meme and I have no idea where it came from. Participation trophies, if they existed at all, are for millennials' parents.


This is completely true. The participation trophy concept was the idea of well intentioned though misguided previous generations who imposed it upon the youth.

But that doesn't mean the message that everyone who shows up deserves the same amount of success and recognition doesn't come with a downside.

Sure and nobody, including millennials, disagrees with the latter statement. Just go listen to any college student rant about deadweight in group projects. By definition that is an acknowledgement that simply being on the team does not make you worthy of all the credit.

I'm not sure where this caricature began but it subsists solely on confirmation bias.


To be fair, the notion of participation trophy era, isn’t restricited to participation trophies. Somewhere around the 80s, they started giving out awards for participating but also, youth sports teams started invoking mercy rules, and a myriad of other odd tactics to “level” the playing field.

There’s an HBO documentary on it. There was a smal trophy company doing like $40K a year in business and then starting in the 80s, they ballooned to become a $50M company.


Mercy is forfeiting so it's hard to see that as much of a participation trophy.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Mercy is forfeiting so it's hard to see that as much of a participation trophy.


No, it’s not that. In numerous sports leagues featuring kids, therr are other mercy rules beyond that, that don’t involve forfeiture. I bet any parent in here can speak to what I’m talking about but I’ll give you mine.

My kid cousin, in his football league, once you got up by a certain number of points, they could not score or they would be financially penalized by their league. So on one play, he broke away for a big run, and all the coaches were yelling for him to get out of bounds which he did on like the 5 yard line. They proceeded to run the ball but get stuffed intentionally and turned the ball over on downs on purpose since they could not score.

That type of stuff, in addition to participation trophies, all part of the participation trophy era of the 80s/90s and still today.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


like i feel like i need to like binge watch it's always sunny again, totally like not adulting today


I totally wasnt even that hung over an was like, totally n bed by 2 or 3! I’m feeling oppressed at work bcuz college guy keeps telling me wut 2 do bcuz he makes more money and everyone think he’s smart. Like, I totally am going to sue for hostile workplace.


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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
Mercy is forfeiting so it's hard to see that as much of a participation trophy.


No, it’s not that. In numerous sports leagues featuring kids, therr are other mercy rules beyond that, that don’t involve forfeiture. I bet any parent in here can speak to what I’m talking about but I’ll give you mine.

My kid cousin, in his football league, once you got up by a certain number of points, they could not score or they would be financially penalized by their league. So on one play, he broke away for a big run, and all the coaches were yelling for him to get out of bounds which he did on like the 5 yard line. They proceeded to run the ball but get stuffed intentionally and turned the ball over on downs on purpose since they could not score.

That type of stuff, in addition to participation trophies, all part of the participation trophy era of the 80s/90s and still today.

That's really weird, and absolutely deserving of derision, but I hardly think it's the norm.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
kikanga wrote:
We'd all be better off if there were more millennials:
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/590/cpsprodpb/13D5D/production/_92354218_us_elections_2016_exit_polls_age_624-2.png

You old geezers should get your ranks in order!


That's HOW people voted . . . not WHETHER they voted.

Millenials lead the charge in "I'm not like voting because like, my favorite candidate got like totally screwed . . . "


Nice try, sly guy.
Quote:
However, in 2016, young voters ages 18 to 29 were the only age group to report increased turnout compared to 2012, with a reported turnout increase of 1.1 percent

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2017/05/voting_in_america.html

If we're gonna generalize about generations and be funny/confrontational. Hey old people. Slow down on the racism and sexism. Or at least have a little shame.
Also can you baby boomers hurry up and croak. You're holding on to jobs too long. At least your parents had the decency to croak or retire. Damn modern medicine.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


like i feel like i need to like binge watch it's always sunny again, totally like not adulting today


I totally wasnt even that hung over an was like, totally n bed by 2 or 3! I’m feeling oppressed at work bcuz college guy keeps telling me wut 2 do bcuz he makes more money and everyone think he’s smart. Like, I totally am going to sue for hostile workplace.


You're killin me in this thread, lj.
LOL

I didn't mean to be totally disparaging towards ALL millenials. I've actually hired quite a few "kids" with a great work ethic and great attitude towards work and their careers.

A lot of my gripes can also be contributed to the day and age we live in. I was actually asked from someone about our "drug testing policy". And "since Weed is like, legal now, is it OK if they test positive?"
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
Mercy is forfeiting so it's hard to see that as much of a participation trophy.


No, it’s not that. In numerous sports leagues featuring kids, therr are other mercy rules beyond that, that don’t involve forfeiture. I bet any parent in here can speak to what I’m talking about but I’ll give you mine.

My kid cousin, in his football league, once you got up by a certain number of points, they could not score or they would be financially penalized by their league. So on one play, he broke away for a big run, and all the coaches were yelling for him to get out of bounds which he did on like the 5 yard line. They proceeded to run the ball but get stuffed intentionally and turned the ball over on downs on purpose since they could not score.

That type of stuff, in addition to participation trophies, all part of the participation trophy era of the 80s/90s and still today.

That's really weird, and absolutely deserving of derision, but I hardly think it's the norm.


#overlymasculine80’s thread is over there —————>
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


like i feel like i need to like binge watch it's always sunny again, totally like not adulting today


I totally wasnt even that hung over an was like, totally n bed by 2 or 3! I’m feeling oppressed at work bcuz college guy keeps telling me wut 2 do bcuz he makes more money and everyone think he’s smart. Like, I totally am going to sue for hostile workplace.


You're killin me in this thread, lj.
LOL

I didn't mean to be totally disparaging towards ALL millenials. I've actually hired quite a few "kids" with a great work ethic and great attitude towards work and their careers.

A lot of my gripes can also be contributed to the day and age we live in. I was actually asked from someone about our "drug testing policy". And "since Weed is like, legal now, is it OK if they test positive?"


Shot out to my boy Nick. He’s a lurker here. 27 years old and the hardest working, most dependable, best salesman on the team. It’s not easy to earn my respect. He’s done it 100x over with work ethic alone. Dude sold 52k in product in 25 days. (Selling at 1k per unit) nearly impossible unless you don’t sleep and skip lunch everyday.

Here’s to you Nick. Come join the conversation btw 😉
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:15 pm    Post subject:

I like millenials. I don’t always agree with them (which doesn’t always make me right either), it I do appreciate their egalitarian sensibilities and their questioning of why ever increased work and productivity rewarded by stagnant wages is a good thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:


I didn't mean to be totally disparaging towards ALL millenials. I've actually hired quite a few "kids" with a great work ethic and great attitude towards work and their careers.

A lot of my gripes can also be contributed to the day and age we live in. I was actually asked from someone about our "drug testing policy". And "since Weed is like, legal now, is it OK if they test positive?"


Again, the issue, isn't a generational one. It's an ahole one . . . and every generation is full of those.

Where I work, most of my favorite co-workers are "millennials". They are talented, hardworking and fun to be around. They do great work and expect nothing in return other than to be treated as an important part of the process. They push the boundaries and introduce new approaches without arrogance or contempt. Meanwhile, I know a few of my fellow "Baby-Boomers" who are disrecptpful and self-entitled aholes whom I would prefer not to deal with.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:21 pm    Post subject:

I think where you live (city vs. suburbs vs. the sticks) separates modern Americans moreso than generations.
I have alot more in common with cultured, open minded, city dwelling, older generation people than I do with millennials who live in low population areas.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
Mercy is forfeiting so it's hard to see that as much of a participation trophy.


No, it’s not that. In numerous sports leagues featuring kids, therr are other mercy rules beyond that, that don’t involve forfeiture. I bet any parent in here can speak to what I’m talking about but I’ll give you mine.

My kid cousin, in his football league, once you got up by a certain number of points, they could not score or they would be financially penalized by their league. So on one play, he broke away for a big run, and all the coaches were yelling for him to get out of bounds which he did on like the 5 yard line. They proceeded to run the ball but get stuffed intentionally and turned the ball over on downs on purpose since they could not score.

That type of stuff, in addition to participation trophies, all part of the participation trophy era of the 80s/90s and still today.

That's really weird, and absolutely deserving of derision, but I hardly think it's the norm.


You hardly think it’s the norm ... based on what?

These types of rules are standard in Pop Warner football leagues and have been for years now. For example where you cannot lead by more than 28 pts or your team is fined. Win by more than 35 and the coach can be suspended.

Ask anyone you know with a kid playing in youth sports and I bet they have odd mercy rules like this.

I want to say it was Darren sproles who famously was barred from carrying the ball more than X times, etc.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


like i feel like i need to like binge watch it's always sunny again, totally like not adulting today


I totally wasnt even that hung over an was like, totally n bed by 2 or 3! I’m feeling oppressed at work bcuz college guy keeps telling me wut 2 do bcuz he makes more money and everyone think he’s smart. Like, I totally am going to sue for hostile workplace.


I feel like I've seen this in a meme somewhere btw like I feel like you should like check out this video that you like don't find interesting at all while I hold my phone in your face
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
tox wrote:
Mercy is forfeiting so it's hard to see that as much of a participation trophy.


No, it’s not that. In numerous sports leagues featuring kids, therr are other mercy rules beyond that, that don’t involve forfeiture. I bet any parent in here can speak to what I’m talking about but I’ll give you mine.

My kid cousin, in his football league, once you got up by a certain number of points, they could not score or they would be financially penalized by their league. So on one play, he broke away for a big run, and all the coaches were yelling for him to get out of bounds which he did on like the 5 yard line. They proceeded to run the ball but get stuffed intentionally and turned the ball over on downs on purpose since they could not score.

That type of stuff, in addition to participation trophies, all part of the participation trophy era of the 80s/90s and still today.

That's really weird, and absolutely deserving of derision, but I hardly think it's the norm.


You hardly think it’s the norm ... based on what?

These types of rules are standard in Pop Warner football leagues and have been for years now. For example where you cannot lead by more than 28 pts or your team is fined. Win by more than 35 and the coach can be suspended.

Ask anyone you know with a kid playing in youth sports and I bet they have odd mercy rules like this.

I want to say it was Darren sproles who famously was barred from carrying the ball more than X times, etc.

Onus is on you to prove it. You're the one making the claim.
I mean seriously? So some team of 11 year olds wasn't allowed to beat some team of 11 year olds by 35 (how often is that even happening?) and somehow the entire Millennial generation suffers from an endemic of participation trophies?

Literally the only people who qualify in your scenario are those who:
1) played sports
2) played a sport at a young age where these mercy rules were implemented: I played basketball and this is unheard of
3) were actually part of these blowouts on either end
4) this experience was enough to imprint on their mind and shape their worldview
5) when this (bleep) stops applying like in high school (I've definitely seen 50-0 blowouts in high school football), it didn't undo the damage of the above point

That's, like, 0.1% of the population.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject:

Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


like i feel like i need to like binge watch it's always sunny again, totally like not adulting today


I totally wasnt even that hung over an was like, totally n bed by 2 or 3! I’m feeling oppressed at work bcuz college guy keeps telling me wut 2 do bcuz he makes more money and everyone think he’s smart. Like, I totally am going to sue for hostile workplace.


I feel like I've seen this in a meme somewhere btw like I feel like you should like check out this video that you like don't find interesting at all while I hold my phone in your face


But, like, that video is so dated anyway and you’re offending my sensibilities. I didn’t like it on Instagram so don’t force it on me. Omg I totally need some private space now to calm down now. This life is 2 much stress.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Saw an interesting article somewhere, can’t remember where, that spoke to why millennials are so entitled.

It referenced a couple things, which made sense to me.

1) Participation trophy era (where everyone is a winner just for existing)
2) Many things have come easy and/or free. Music on demand, movies on demand, etc. You have access to friends or crushes at any time, no longer need to call the house and be polite to the parents to get to your friend or crush, etc. Delaying gratification is no longer a thing.

At the same time, gotta give millennials some credit too. There are many doing incredible things much in part thanks to the internet which has leveled the playing field for them. I mean, Mark freakin Zuckerberg is a millennial.


The thing I hate about the term “millennial,” “boomer” etc is that people generally use them to make sweeping generalizations. Sure, based on a confidence curve one might be able to make generalizations about a millennial’s student debt or a boomer’s pending retirement funds, but in no way should we be making personality assessments based on age group in a vacuum ie “millennials are entitled.” Doesn’t make sense to me.
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Ujah's Goat
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
The bottomline is that it's never about a generation of people. It's about the individuals who comprise it. There are successful ones, compassionate ones, progressive ones or lazy ones.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:23 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
PLATNUM wrote:
Part of my job is to locate, recruit, interview, hire and train new employees. In my experience, the best word to describe millenials’ attitude toward work and that entire process is.... "meh".


"How long before this position allows me to work from home?"


I work from home 2 days a week. It's nice. Here are a few reasons why it might by a good idea for a business to allow its employees to work from home:

https://torchlighthire.com/leading-reasons-let-employees-work-home-one-day-week/


I don’t disagree about the efficiency of working from home or even a 4 day work week.

However, you completely missed the mark here on context. My comment was directly related to the Interview comment I responded to. I’ve been asked that 5 times in the last two months while interviewing candidates for an on site support staff role. As if somehow they expect that at some point I’ll stop asking them to come to work and do their job because “they’ve earned it”. Even though the job requires them to be physically present in order to fulfill the job duties. And that, is something I only encounter from a certain age group, before you ask I’m 38 and it’s not my age group I’m referring to.


I did get the context of your comment. My point is that I'm not sure why it would be a knock for an interviewer to ask this upfront. I'd argue that people who are interviewing should ask more questions like this so they know exactly what they are getting into, and also where their potential boss stands on certain topics that are likely to come up if they are hired.


So, would you consider the Job title “Inside Sales” ambiguous or in some way negotiable?

Would you go to the interview thinking. Hmm, maybe my ideas are so smart and original, heck, I’ll probably walk out with an offer and a promotion?


All I can say is that if i was the recruiter, I’d welcome questions like that even if it seems as though the answer is obvious. Why? It leads to employee satisfaction either way as it provides clarity on expectations and company policy.

If one is hired and thinks that by working hard, big boss would maybe allow him/her to work from home here and there out of generosity, they might be in for a huge disappointment. I’ve seen it happen where the same people would plead to work from home each and every team meeting. The manager’s reply? “Work from home was not offered when you were hired.” One of those people in particular was with the company for 8 or 9 years? It became 10+ by the time I left and the work from home policy didn’t change. That person is still with the same company today.

For better or worse, I’d wager that if one of my peers was in that position they would have went to another company that values loyalty a looong time ago.

For the record, both orgs I’ve worked for use cloud services and the IS reps/AM’s would be allowed to work remote as long as they were on track to hit target.
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