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Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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 Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:34 pm Post subject: Defence and Offensive Spacing without Lopez |
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Hi,
With all the talking about getting rid of Brook this trade deadline/off-season, I was wondering how his absence would affect the team.
I have 2 main concerns, if we don't have the Randle/Brook pf/c combination.
Offense
1) Randle to me plays like an undersized centre. I think he's fine on the offensive end getting points in the paint. However, his outside shot is iffy at best and won't we have a spacing issue without Lopez? Lopez at least is capable of hitting 3s, so his defender would have to respect his shot. Doesn't this give the lakers additional room for the offense to operate.
I suppose we could replace Lopez's shooting with Kuzma. However, this leads me to my second point.
Defense
2) Lopez is a big guy who matches up well with the bigger centres in the league, at least on defense. This being said, I do not think Lopez is a defensive monster. He is just about the same size as some of the bigger centres in the league. Even if he is not getting rebounds, his presence makes it easier for Randle/our guards to get defensive rebounds I think. Kuzma is really good on offense but I'm not sold on his defensive capabilities. Also Randle is undersized for a centre and while I'm perfectly fine with him operating in the paint on offense, I worry when Randle has to guard much bigger guys on defense if it is a randle (c)/Kuzma(pf) combination. Kuzma is not going to be guarding centres.
So I might be totally off base with this but this is my worry if Brook is no longer around. Any comments on how we should deal with this or even if this is even a problem would be appreciated. |
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dao
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Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma is a rookie. His defense will improve. Kuzma is the PF of the future on this team. The only thing that could delay the process is if we sign George+Lebron. Otherwise, Kuzma is the starting 4 next year imo.
As for the center position, it's wide open. I'd like to see Randle/Kuzma start for the rest of the season honestly, to assess Randle's viability as a full time starting center.
Lopez isn't part of the future here imo. |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Defence and Offensive Spacing without Lopez |
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| Vanquish wrote: | Hi,
With all the talking about getting rid of Brook this trade deadline/off-season, I was wondering how his absence would affect the team.
I have 2 main concerns, if we don't have the Randle/Brook pf/c combination.
Offense
1) Randle to me plays like an undersized centre. I think he's fine on the offensive end getting points in the paint. However, his outside shot is iffy at best and won't we have a spacing issue without Lopez? Lopez at least is capable of hitting 3s, so his defender would have to respect his shot. Doesn't this give the lakers additional room for the offense to operate.
I suppose we could replace Lopez's shooting with Kuzma. However, this leads me to my second point.
Defense
2) Lopez is a big guy who matches up well with the bigger centres in the league, at least on defense. This being said, I do not think Lopez is a defensive monster. He is just about the same size as some of the bigger centres in the league. Even if he is not getting rebounds, his presence makes it easier for Randle/our guards to get defensive rebounds I think. Kuzma is really good on offense but I'm not sold on his defensive capabilities. Also Randle is undersized for a centre and while I'm perfectly fine with him operating in the paint on offense, I worry when Randle has to guard much bigger guys on defense if it is a randle (c)/Kuzma(pf) combination. Kuzma is not going to be guarding centres.
So I might be totally off base with this but this is my worry if Brook is no longer around. Any comments on how we should deal with this or even if this is even a problem would be appreciated. |
Lopez was always a placeholder. He's an expiring contract we got to create cap space to go after free agents. And who knows? If we strike out on free agents, we might bring him back. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
I think its getting more and more unlikely that they will both be gone. At the very minimum, I am expecting Randle to stay unless something crazy happens. The 2 max plan for me went down the toilet the moment cousins got injured.
We might get george, but lebron for me is more of a long shot. I would think the back up would be to get cousins, but considering his injury, I personally would not risk a max year max salary contract on him. Let the Pelicans take the gamble, especially since we can still use our cap room to go after free agents in 2019.
So my assumption is Randle is probably staying, and we need a centre to go along with Randle. |
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | Kuzma is a rookie. His defense will improve. Kuzma is the PF of the future on this team. The only thing that could delay the process is if we sign George+Lebron. Otherwise, Kuzma is the starting 4 next year imo.
As for the center position, it's wide open. I'd like to see Randle/Kuzma start for the rest of the season honestly, to assess Randle's viability as a full time starting center.
Lopez isn't part of the future here imo. |
I rather not mess with what's working. We need as many wins as possible
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Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
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King Nupe
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Mar 2014
Posts: 178
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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This is a good question.
How many Centers can do what Brook does? Spread the floor and guard other centers.
Channing Frye can spread the floor, but he's a mop on defense.
Brook may be able to come back with the MLE, since I'm sure demand for him will be low. |
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dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | dao wrote: | Kuzma is a rookie. His defense will improve. Kuzma is the PF of the future on this team. The only thing that could delay the process is if we sign George+Lebron. Otherwise, Kuzma is the starting 4 next year imo.
As for the center position, it's wide open. I'd like to see Randle/Kuzma start for the rest of the season honestly, to assess Randle's viability as a full time starting center.
Lopez isn't part of the future here imo. |
I rather not mess with what's working. We need as many wins as possible |
ya there's definitely validity in that, we are rolling right now and you don't really want to screw with it too much. But Lopez won't be our center next year, and Randle won't be the starting PF. I'd like to get a real look at Randle at the 5, unless the Lakers are already confident that he can play the position and don't need a further look. If that's the case, Kuzma/Randle could be our starting frontcourt going forward.
Last edited by dao on Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
I think its getting more and more unlikely that they will both be gone. At the very minimum, I am expecting Randle to stay unless something crazy happens. The 2 max plan for me went down the toilet the moment cousins got injured.
We might get george, but lebron for me is more of a long shot. I would think the back up would be to get cousins, but considering his injury, I personally would not risk a max year max salary contract on him. Let the Pelicans take the gamble, especially since we can still use our cap room to go after free agents in 2019.
So my assumption is Randle is probably staying, and we need a centre to go along with Randle. |
I actually think it’s the opposite. If the odds of LeBron leaving CLE seemed to far outweigh the odds of him coming back, and it’s almost certain that he’s leaving now. And his interest in signing with the Lakers after it all is still implicitly obvious. Even if George feels that he, Westbrook, and Melo are forming some sort of brotherly bond or whatever, I still like the Lakers’ chances. A lot. OKC has a lot more work to do financially to keep those three together than the Lakers do to create enough space for the second max.
There were two big goals coming into the season, one was for the young core to impress and flash potential stardom, which they have. The other was for the team to show marked improvement, which they’ve also done so far imo. If the season ended today, I still like their chances of signing both James and George.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper |
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dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
second paragraph hit the nail on the head. Randle/Lopez will absolutely not be our frontcourt next year. |
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | | Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
second paragraph hit the nail on the head. Randle/Lopez will absolutely not be our frontcourt next year. |
I don't know why you're so sure about that. Rob has already hinted at that.
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Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi |
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dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
I think its getting more and more unlikely that they will both be gone. At the very minimum, I am expecting Randle to stay unless something crazy happens. The 2 max plan for me went down the toilet the moment cousins got injured.
We might get george, but lebron for me is more of a long shot. I would think the back up would be to get cousins, but considering his injury, I personally would not risk a max year max salary contract on him. Let the Pelicans take the gamble, especially since we can still use our cap room to go after free agents in 2019.
So my assumption is Randle is probably staying, and we need a centre to go along with Randle. |
Lakers aren't going to give Randle a huge extension, sign a center that fits well with him, and bring Kuzma off the bench behind Randle. Kuzma/Nance cost like 3 million per year between them. That's a much more efficient way to fill the PF spot. And Kuzma is a better prospect than Randle even ignoring their huge difference in salary.
The PF spot is filled with good cheap talent. Kuzma/Nance are more than enough at PF. And Ingram will be playing a lot of PF as he continues to fill out. Hell, Josh Hart is strong enough to play some small ball 4 against certain matchups. Randle's future here is at the 5, not 4. |
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dao
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Car54 wrote: | | dao wrote: | | Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
second paragraph hit the nail on the head. Randle/Lopez will absolutely not be our frontcourt next year. |
I don't know why you're so sure about that. Rob has already hinted at that. |
that's likely because these players are being discussed in trades. But yah, you're fooling yourself if you think Lakers prefer Randles style of play over Kuzma's at the 4. A non-shooter vs a sniper is no contest. Kuzma has to get better defensively (as Randle did), but Kuzma brings a lot more to the table offensively in terms of fit in today's NBA.
Last edited by dao on Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Judah wrote: | Yeah, Brook is an ideal center to play next to Randle because of his size, rim protection, and shooting ability. And Randle is pretty ideal for Brook as well since he’s a bruiser in the paint. They’re a pretty solid pairing since they compliment each other well.
That said, it’s more likely that they’ll both be gone after this year than it is that they’ll both be back. So talking about how they’ll fare together long- term beyond this year is probably somewhat fruitless. |
I think its getting more and more unlikely that they will both be gone. At the very minimum, I am expecting Randle to stay unless something crazy happens. The 2 max plan for me went down the toilet the moment cousins got injured.
We might get george, but lebron for me is more of a long shot. I would think the back up would be to get cousins, but considering his injury, I personally would not risk a max year max salary contract on him. Let the Pelicans take the gamble, especially since we can still use our cap room to go after free agents in 2019.
So my assumption is Randle is probably staying, and we need a centre to go along with Randle. |
I actually think it’s the opposite. If the odds of LeBron leaving CLE seemed to far outweigh the odds of him coming back, and it’s almost certain that he’s leaving now. And his interest in signing with the Lakers after it all is still implicitly obvious. Even if George feels that he, Westbrook, and Melo are forming some sort of brotherly bond or whatever, I still like the Lakers’ chances. A lot. OKC has a lot more work to do financially to keep those three together than the Lakers do to create enough space for the second max.
There were two big goals coming into the season, one was for the young core to impress and flash potential stardom, which they have. The other was for the team to show marked improvement, which they’ve also done so far imo. If the season ended today, I still like their chances of signing both James and George. |
I think it's going to be a volatile, unpredictable free agent period.
It's anyone's guess if the big names actually move on or stay with their teams. I doubt any of them are sure what they are going to do, so how can we fans be?
With not much money freed up, lots of good free agents might be available at cheap rates. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| dao wrote: | | Car54 wrote: | | dao wrote: | Kuzma is a rookie. His defense will improve. Kuzma is the PF of the future on this team. The only thing that could delay the process is if we sign George+Lebron. Otherwise, Kuzma is the starting 4 next year imo.
As for the center position, it's wide open. I'd like to see Randle/Kuzma start for the rest of the season honestly, to assess Randle's viability as a full time starting center.
Lopez isn't part of the future here imo. |
I rather not mess with what's working. We need as many wins as possible |
ya there's definitely validity in that, we are rolling right now and you don't really want to screw with it too much. But Lopez won't be our center next year, and Randle won't be the starting PF. I'd like to get a real look at Randle at the 5, unless the Lakers are already confident that he can play the position and don't need a further look. If that's the case, Kuzma/Randle could be our starting frontcourt going forward. |
Randle will be our starting PF next year unless he is traded or leaves as a FA. Our winning coincided with him becoming our starter. He sets the intensity defensively (along with Hart and Lopez). We are just a better team with him starting.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Maybe we keep Lopez on the cheap, who knows.
Lopez and Randle seem to work well on the frontcourt. |
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