Prediction - ultimate fate of Deng
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Rek
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
Deng doesn't get moved unless both PG13 and LBJ come here. Then we use Deng and 2 first rounders to a team like Bulls, Atlanta, etc.


Yup. that's how I see it too - unless some team agrees to take him for only one 1st rd pick, in which case you gotta take advantage of the opportunity.

Same here. People toss around the term 'stretch' like it's nothing. If the team expects to truly build a contender, they'll need every possible amount of cap space to sign pillars as well as good role players. Furthermore, I never see anyone accounting for the fact that our young guys will need to get paid as well. Those rookie scale contracts don't last forever.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject:

JamaalWilkes wrote:
They are handling this all wrong. He won't take a buyout?

1. Assign him to the G League.

2. Run him hard in practice. Have him run lines and laps for an hour.

3. Have him do 3 ice-baths a day.

4. Play him 35 minutes a game.

5. Let him enjoy bus travel on the road and team motel.

6. Offer him a one-time buyout, or it's non-stop laps and 35 minutes, buses and motels.


You missed

7. Force him to sweep out the gym.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
JamaalWilkes wrote:
They are handling this all wrong. He won't take a buyout?

1. Assign him to the G League.

2. Run him hard in practice. Have him run lines and laps for an hour.

3. Have him do 3 ice-baths a day.

4. Play him 35 minutes a game.

5. Let him enjoy bus travel on the road and team motel.

6. Offer him a one-time buyout, or it's non-stop laps and 35 minutes, buses and motels.


You missed

7. Force him to sweep out the gym.


Are you suggesting that Byron Scott got fired too soon??
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:20 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
PG and LeBron plus this roster is better than Houston and have a chance against GSW. No way you trade Zo or Ingram at this point.


they are not...and its not really that close. On paper, Lebron and PG-13 alone would likely make us the 3rd best favorites in the West (behind GSW & Houston) and 4th in the league (behind GSW, Houston and probably Boston w/ Hayward).


you got to take account of what lebron would see in houston.
they have 80m committed for 2018 already WITHOUT paul, capella and ariza.
they would have to give away players to clear space for lebron.
if lebron joins, rockets, there will be no paul, capella or ariza.
it would be lebron (barely), harden and gordon - that is it.
there is ryan anderson making 20m

if i were lebron, i would rather go to lakers to rockets to win as much as possible in next 3 years.


our discussion was not about Lebron going to the Lakers or Houston? It was in reference to the current Houston team and an LA team with Lebron & PG-13. maybe I am misunderstanding.


i guess i misunderstood u.
so u think lakers with lbj and pg is less than paul, harden, capella, ariza, nene, gordon
to me, lebron cancels out harden, pg cancels out paul.
that would leave bi, ball, randle, kuz, hart vs. capella, ariza, nene
i would go with lakers here with lbj and pg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
PG and LeBron plus this roster is better than Houston and have a chance against GSW. No way you trade Zo or Ingram at this point.


they are not...and its not really that close. On paper, Lebron and PG-13 alone would likely make us the 3rd best favorites in the West (behind GSW & Houston) and 4th in the league (behind GSW, Houston and probably Boston w/ Hayward).


you got to take account of what lebron would see in houston.
they have 80m committed for 2018 already WITHOUT paul, capella and ariza.
they would have to give away players to clear space for lebron.
if lebron joins, rockets, there will be no paul, capella or ariza.
it would be lebron (barely), harden and gordon - that is it.
there is ryan anderson making 20m

if i were lebron, i would rather go to lakers to rockets to win as much as possible in next 3 years.


our discussion was not about Lebron going to the Lakers or Houston? It was in reference to the current Houston team and an LA team with Lebron & PG-13. maybe I am misunderstanding.


i guess i misunderstood u.
so u think lakers with lbj and pg is less than paul, harden, capella, ariza, nene, gordon
to me, lebron cancels out harden, pg cancels out paul.
that would leave bi, ball, randle, kuz, hart vs. capella, ariza, nene
i would go with lakers here with lbj and pg


did you forget Gordon and Tucker?

It is not really about cancelling out....we know exactly what Houston is at their best....they are 24 -1 when they have Harden, Paul and Capella on the court! Also, when you say you would take those Lakers supporting players over Houston's...and I may agree if we were talking about their ceiling or projected careers....but no way I take that group of 1st and 2nd year players in a game today over those solid Houston veterans.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:56 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
PG and LeBron plus this roster is better than Houston and have a chance against GSW. No way you trade Zo or Ingram at this point.


they are not...and its not really that close. On paper, Lebron and PG-13 alone would likely make us the 3rd best favorites in the West (behind GSW & Houston) and 4th in the league (behind GSW, Houston and probably Boston w/ Hayward).


you got to take account of what lebron would see in houston.
they have 80m committed for 2018 already WITHOUT paul, capella and ariza.
they would have to give away players to clear space for lebron.
if lebron joins, rockets, there will be no paul, capella or ariza.
it would be lebron (barely), harden and gordon - that is it.
there is ryan anderson making 20m

if i were lebron, i would rather go to lakers to rockets to win as much as possible in next 3 years.


our discussion was not about Lebron going to the Lakers or Houston? It was in reference to the current Houston team and an LA team with Lebron & PG-13. maybe I am misunderstanding.


i guess i misunderstood u.
so u think lakers with lbj and pg is less than paul, harden, capella, ariza, nene, gordon
to me, lebron cancels out harden, pg cancels out paul.
that would leave bi, ball, randle, kuz, hart vs. capella, ariza, nene
i would go with lakers here with lbj and pg


did you forget Gordon and Tucker?

It is not really about cancelling out....we know exactly what Houston is at their best....they are 24 -1 when they have Harden, Paul and Capella on the court! Also, when you say you would take those Lakers supporting players over Houston's...and I may agree if we were talking about their ceiling or projected careers....but no way I take that group of 1st and 2nd year players in a game today over those solid Houston veterans.


do u remember this team without pg and lbj losing by 6 pts last 2 time to the rockets? last time needing ot. think paul was injured half-way into the last game and may be they were no 'trying' their best...
there is no way i would take rockets over lakers with lbj and pg

may be they were not trying their best
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:01 am    Post subject:

Rockets are clicking, their 3s at all cost are working (got the right players and have a player or 2 they can still dump the ball to for iso if need be) plus their defense is working now. With PG13/LBJ, assuming Lonzo,PG,BI,Randle/Kuzma line up... those guys in run n gun would be devastating and their defense gonna be able to switch freely too. Lakers would be among the elites with those 2
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject:

He might be an ok back up 4...that will rehab his value a little bit.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:00 am    Post subject:

If Deng is stretched before July 1, Magic and Rob are going for it this's summer, not 2019.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject:

Starts coming off the bench and plays well. Replaces BI in starting lineup. Lakers sneak into playoffs. Deng hits 3-pointer from the corner in game 7 to seal the win as the Lakers defeat the Warriors.

Before the next playoff series, Deng announces his retirement to accept a new job as the head of a major World Bank initiative to promote economic and social development in Africa.

The end.


Last edited by markjay on Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:32 am    Post subject:

Deng is done and that is a Dung deal.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:38 am    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Deng and Cav's 1st round pick to Dallas, Chicago, Sacramento, or Hawks for a 2nd rounder pick/s. Rebuilding teams won't be big players in free agency and a having extra first rounders is a must in the new CBA. Lakers might have to throw in a future first rounder but, I'm much more confident the Lakers will be able to trade that Deng contract now.


Absolute minimum is Deng + 1 1st and 2 2nds going out, nothing in.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Prediction - ultimate fate of Deng

cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Traded with 2018 1st and 2020 1st and misc pieces (cap holds?) for Lebron.
Why?

Lakers may be the most logical place for Lebron because Lebron + PG would make Lakers legitimate contender.
Cavs may as well get 2 1st round picks (even if low).
Lakers clear Deng salary totally so Lebron and PG can get their max contracts while keeping Randle.
May be 2022 1st round pick also.
OKC would consider trading PG because they want the 2 picks but ultimately refuse to take on the Deng salary.

This assumes BI continues to play as least as well.
Ball comes back and plays as well as before injury.
No major injuries.




If Lebron makes it clear he is coming here anyway, the Cavs might do what they did with Miami -- trade him for some draft picks. That way we'd get his Bird rights and could pay him a larger salary. But I don't see the Cavs taking on a bad contract.

I believe that the Cavs are in repeater tax territory, so taking on Deng would cost them a ridiculous amount -- like $70 million when all the penalties are added on. I could see them paying the tax for Lebron; don't see them doing it for two picks that will probably be low.


if cavs dont take bad contract, then it becomes much less attractive.
the only difference is $5M between randle/pg/lebron

we can probably trade deng for 2018 1st and 2020 1st to Bulls or Atlanta.
So cavs has competition.
Their edge in getting the deal is Lebron wants to give his hometown something when he leaves again


Something like 70 millions luxury tax?
That would be cruel.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: Prediction - ultimate fate of Deng

cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:

if cavs dont take bad contract, then it becomes much less attractive.
the only difference is $5M between randle/pg/lebron

we can probably trade deng for 2018 1st and 2020 1st to Bulls or Atlanta.
So cavs has competition.
Their edge in getting the deal is Lebron wants to give his hometown something when he leaves again


Again, you are overlooking the salary tax implications of the Cavs taking on Deng's contract.

I doubt the Cavs are going to pay $70 million for a couple of low first-round picks.

If anything, if Lebron leaves I could see them going the other direction and shedding salary.


i am not sure on the rules, but i think you can trade cap hold players also?
deng accounts for 18m
then you have another 17-21m remaining because of their trade exception?
that could get them another player if correct
perhaps kcp's rights if it is relevant


Not at all.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:51 am    Post subject:

Pau Gasol's Beard wrote:
Turns out heís actually 62 and Thon Makerís dad

Thon, on the other side, is 42 and Mohammed Bamba's father.
Deng is his grandfather.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
PG and LeBron plus this roster is better than Houston and have a chance against GSW. No way you trade Zo or Ingram at this point.


they are not...and its not really that close. On paper, Lebron and PG-13 alone would likely make us the 3rd best favorites in the West (behind GSW & Houston) and 4th in the league (behind GSW, Houston and probably Boston w/ Hayward).


They are, like it or not.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
PG and LeBron plus this roster is better than Houston and have a chance against GSW. No way you trade Zo or Ingram at this point.


they are not...and its not really that close. On paper, Lebron and PG-13 alone would likely make us the 3rd best favorites in the West (behind GSW & Houston) and 4th in the league (behind GSW, Houston and probably Boston w/ Hayward).


you got to take account of what lebron would see in houston.
they have 80m committed for 2018 already WITHOUT paul, capella and ariza.
they would have to give away players to clear space for lebron.
if lebron joins, rockets, there will be no paul, capella or ariza.
it would be lebron (barely), harden and gordon - that is it.
there is ryan anderson making 20m

if i were lebron, i would rather go to lakers to rockets to win as much as possible in next 3 years.


our discussion was not about Lebron going to the Lakers or Houston? It was in reference to the current Houston team and an LA team with Lebron & PG-13. maybe I am misunderstanding.



Can't be a current HOU team with Lebron.
Better take notice of that.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Prediction - ultimate fate of Deng

cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:

if cavs dont take bad contract, then it becomes much less attractive.
the only difference is $5M between randle/pg/lebron

we can probably trade deng for 2018 1st and 2020 1st to Bulls or Atlanta.
So cavs has competition.
Their edge in getting the deal is Lebron wants to give his hometown something when he leaves again


Again, you are overlooking the salary tax implications of the Cavs taking on Deng's contract.

I doubt the Cavs are going to pay $70 million for a couple of low first-round picks.

If anything, if Lebron leaves I could see them going the other direction and shedding salary.


i am not sure on the rules, but i think you can trade cap hold players also?
deng accounts for 18m
then you have another 17-21m remaining because of their trade exception?
that could get them another player if correct
perhaps kcp's rights if it is relevant


No offense, but you don't know the trade rules.
if not, i presume a sign and trade works also if timing works.

The bottom line is if they trade Lebron for players, the Cavs will pay a huge amount in tax. You eitther get that or you don't. If you don't, there's not much more to say.


that is why i posed the cap hold as a question - whether it can be traded.

regarding big contract vs. lost of talent. i am not sure. if you look at the cavs, they dont have a bad team if lebron leaves.
they have hill/clarkson/thompson/love as the core.
they will probably have a top 7 draft pick to bring in a key talent in a really top heavy draft.
they can use that top pick as the 'draw' for the next big talent.
in that case, i would rather spend more to bring in more talent to sell tickets.
you can make money by saving money.
or you can make money by spending money to make the product garner more interest.
i dont know their attendance revenue, so it is hard to discuss which works better for them.


I had a longer response written, but rogers49 covered it just now.


Why did you start this thread since it was bound to go into topic areas that you aren't that familiar with?

A little help along the way is acceptable, but not this much help.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:01 am    Post subject:

Harlemlakerfan wrote:
If Deng is stretched before July 1, Magic and Rob are going for it this's summer, not 2019.


The final result of stretching would be, now or then, exactly the same.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Re: Prediction - ultimate fate of Deng

Bard207 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
activeverb wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:

if cavs dont take bad contract, then it becomes much less attractive.
the only difference is $5M between randle/pg/lebron

we can probably trade deng for 2018 1st and 2020 1st to Bulls or Atlanta.
So cavs has competition.
Their edge in getting the deal is Lebron wants to give his hometown something when he leaves again


Again, you are overlooking the salary tax implications of the Cavs taking on Deng's contract.

I doubt the Cavs are going to pay $70 million for a couple of low first-round picks.

If anything, if Lebron leaves I could see them going the other direction and shedding salary.


i am not sure on the rules, but i think you can trade cap hold players also?
deng accounts for 18m
then you have another 17-21m remaining because of their trade exception?
that could get them another player if correct
perhaps kcp's rights if it is relevant


No offense, but you don't know the trade rules.
if not, i presume a sign and trade works also if timing works.

The bottom line is if they trade Lebron for players, the Cavs will pay a huge amount in tax. You eitther get that or you don't. If you don't, there's not much more to say.


that is why i posed the cap hold as a question - whether it can be traded.

regarding big contract vs. lost of talent. i am not sure. if you look at the cavs, they dont have a bad team if lebron leaves.
they have hill/clarkson/thompson/love as the core.
they will probably have a top 7 draft pick to bring in a key talent in a really top heavy draft.
they can use that top pick as the 'draw' for the next big talent.
in that case, i would rather spend more to bring in more talent to sell tickets.
you can make money by saving money.
or you can make money by spending money to make the product garner more interest.
i dont know their attendance revenue, so it is hard to discuss which works better for them.


I had a longer response written, but rogers49 covered it just now.


Why did you start this thread since it was bound to go into topic areas that you aren't that familiar with?

A little help along the way is acceptable, but not this much help.


even if you cannot trade the cap hold player you can do a sign and trade
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Maginka wrote:
Deng + Randle(S&T) + Zubac + 2019 First + 2021 First + (2) Second Rounders.....For LBJ


We don't have to give all that for someone who's already leaving. That might land you a disgruntled Kawhi.
Deng, Ingram, Hart, 2018 Cavs 1st and 2020 1st for Leonard.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

rogers49 wrote:
Harlemlakerfan wrote:
If Deng is stretched before July 1, Magic and Rob are going for it this's summer, not 2019.


The final result of stretching would be, now or then, exactly the same.


Not true. If the Lakers are gonna wait until 2019, stretching him now makes no sense. They could just hold onto him a trade hm next summer when he would then be an expiring contract and much more easier to move.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
JamaalWilkes wrote:
They are handling this all wrong. He won't take a buyout?

1. Assign him to the G League.

2. Run him hard in practice. Have him run lines and laps for an hour.

3. Have him do 3 ice-baths a day.

4. Play him 35 minutes a game.

5. Let him enjoy bus travel on the road and team motel.

6. Offer him a one-time buyout, or it's non-stop laps and 35 minutes, buses and motels.


You missed

7. Force him to sweep out the gym.


I can only hope you are having some fun with a bad situation and not blaming this on Deng.

Lakers chose to dramatically change direction with their plans. They chose to bench him to develop the young players. They chose his role, not Deng.

From all accounts he is being a absolute professional during this. Attending practices and working with the young players. Goes on road trips and attends games but stays in the locker room instead of being a distraction on the bench. Has not complained or made negative comments in the media.

Trying to "punish" him somehow for the FO's decision would only backfire and needlessly antagonize the situation.

I would love for him to accept a low ball buyout. Hell even a somewhat painful "fair" one would work for me. But apparently they can't come to terms. Very likely just as much a decision from the Lakers standpoint as from Deng's.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
activeverb wrote:
JamaalWilkes wrote:
They are handling this all wrong. He won't take a buyout?

1. Assign him to the G League.

2. Run him hard in practice. Have him run lines and laps for an hour.

3. Have him do 3 ice-baths a day.

4. Play him 35 minutes a game.

5. Let him enjoy bus travel on the road and team motel.

6. Offer him a one-time buyout, or it's non-stop laps and 35 minutes, buses and motels.


You missed

7. Force him to sweep out the gym.


I can only hope you are having some fun with a bad situation and not blaming this on Deng.

Lakers chose to dramatically change direction with their plans. They chose to bench him to develop the young players. They chose his role, not Deng.

From all accounts he is being a absolute professional during this. Attending practices and working with the young players. Goes on road trips and attends games but stays in the locker room instead of being a distraction on the bench. Has not complained or made negative comments in the media.

Trying to "punish" him somehow for the FO's decision would only backfire and needlessly antagonize the situation.

I would love for him to accept a low ball buyout. Hell even a somewhat painful "fair" one would work for me. But apparently they can't come to terms. Very likely just as much a decision from the Lakers standpoint as from Deng's.



the problem is we do not want to do the buyout.
we want to trade him with picks to clear the entire salary.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Prediction - ultimate fate of Deng

cal1piggy wrote:
Bard207 wrote:

Why did you start this thread since it was bound to go into topic areas that you aren't that familiar with?

A little help along the way is acceptable, but not this much help.


even if you cannot trade the cap hold player you can do a sign and trade



Yes, but that isn't what you initially wrote.

If all (player and teams) agree on a sign and trade, the situation/status is changed from a cap hold to an actual contract.

A cap hold is an implied financial obligation to slow teams down from gaming the system with Bird Rights and similar. Since a cap hold isn't an actual contract between a player and a team, attempts to trade it will fail.
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