One year since Front Office restructure
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:47 am    Post subject: One year since Front Office restructure

Next week will be one year of the FO restructure. As with most new front office/management restructures there is often times a shake up in personnel. It happens in the corporate world all the time. This FO has been no exception. To put this in perspective here is a timeline of what has happened in past year.

TIMELINE

2/21/17
Lakers hire Magic Johnson as President of basketball operations.

2/21/17
Lakers trade Lou Williams to Houston Rockets for Corey Brewer and 28th pick.

3/7/17
Lakers hire Rob Pelinka as General Manager.

5/24/17
Lakers hire Gunnar Peterson as Director of Strength and Endurance Training

6/20/17
Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov to Brooklyn Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick.

6/22/17
Lakers draft Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant.

10/6/17
Lakers Hire Jason Rosenfeld as Director of Basketball Analytics

2/8/18
Lakers trade Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance Jr to Cleveland Cavaliers for Isaiah Thomas and Channing Frye and Cleveland's 1st round pick.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: One year since Front Office restructure

32 wrote:
Next week will be one year of the FO restructure. As with most new front office/management restructures there is usually a shake up in personnel. It happens in the corporate world all the time. This FO has been no exception. To put this in perspective here is a timeline of what has happened in past year.

TIMELINE

2/21/17
Lakers hire Magic Johnson as President of basketball operations.

2/21/17
Lakers trade Lou Williams to Houston Rockets for Corey Brewer and 28th pick.

6/20/17
Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov to Brooklyn Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick.

6/22/17
Lakers draft Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant.

2/8/18
Lakers trade Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance Jr to Cleveland Cavaliers for Isaiah Thomas and Channing Frye and Cleveland's 1st round pick.


I would give them an A based on all these moves. Really good job by Magic and Pelinka.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject:

2/8 - created cap space for 2 max.

They have a clear vision and are working it to perfection. A+ from me.

I know, I know, they still haven't landed the 2 maxes... but summer hasn't arrived yet either.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:09 am    Post subject:

Grade TBD

It was annoying initially, trading Dlo at that time we still didn’t clear enough for 2 max anyway and the question of how he would look next to Lonzo. But FO is def all in with their plan, 2 max cap space is here, we will support! Believe in Magic! GO LAKERS
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject:

Not ready to give a grade just yet. Have to see if the move, rhetoric and plans actually result in anything before I can. I am optimistic about how the team is playing and coming together but still some serious questions to be answered.

Using the corporate world example from above. It would be similar to a restructure and change of slow growth plans that suddenly spent significant assets to build new manufacturing plants before they have the market increase to support the production.

Management is excited about the new market dominating plan and tell investors and employees how wonderful it will be. But until those new orders actually come in the new factory sits empty and it is all hype instead of substance.

Show me, don't tell me.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject:

so far so good.

Now that they have room for 2xMax, I'd like to see how they go about getting those two AND ALSO having enough for another (Randle? or Noel?)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject:

Done a great job creating max flexibility and cap space. Plus retaining their best talent.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: One year since Front Office restructure

32 wrote:
Next week will be one year of the FO restructure. As with most new front office/management restructures there is often times a shake up in personnel. It happens in the corporate world all the time. This FO has been no exception. To put this in perspective here is a timeline of what has happened in past year.

TIMELINE

2/21/17
Lakers hire Magic Johnson as President of basketball operations.

2/21/17
Lakers trade Lou Williams to Houston Rockets for Corey Brewer and 28th pick.

6/20/17
Lakers trade D'Angelo Russell and Timofey Mozgov to Brooklyn Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick.

6/22/17
Lakers draft Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant.

2/8/18
Lakers trade Jordan Clarkson and Larry Nance Jr to Cleveland Cavaliers for Isaiah Thomas and Channing Frye and Cleveland's 1st round pick.


I was critical of them when they traded my boy but I've gain confidence in them seeing how big of a step BI has taken.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

Falling - not failing - marks for the most recent transaction.

Folks have fallen in love with a get rich quick scheme, the "add two max" or "add one max" player. I feel the the prospect of actually acquiring Paul George - let alone a second worthy max player - sucks in the near term. It's the strategy I have a problem with, because what I see likely in 2008-2009 is carrying two overpaid one year guys again who don't improve the club much. Painful stagnancy.

I had bought into the patience theme with each of the past two seasons because I felt that last week's young core was moving along an achievable path to success (i.e., development of high chemistry).

Now, that's gone.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
Falling - not failing - marks for the most recent transaction.

Folks have fallen in love with a get rich quick scheme, the "add two max" or "add one max" player. I feel the the prospect of actually acquiring Paul George - let alone a second worthy max player - sucks in the near term. It's the strategy I have a problem with, because what I see likely in 2008-2009 is carrying two overpaid one year guys again who don't improve the club much. Painful stagnancy.

I had bought into the patience theme with each of the past two seasons because I felt that last week's young core was moving along an achievable path to success (i.e., development of high chemistry).

Now, that's gone.

It's funny when I hear this narrative, because it makes it sound like teams can go out and pick up All-Star players like picking up groceries. It takes careful planning and timing to put your team in that position in the first place, which is no easy task. This is not trading 2 first for a broken Steve Nash (which was the right move at the time since we were in contention) or trading 4 firsts for an again KG and Pierce (worst robbery in history).

We are getting the best of both worlds in keeping the best of our core (BI/Jules/Zo/Kuz/Hart) while getting short term replacement in production for JC and Nance (IT and Frye), while still having the best cap situation in the league, getting a pick back in a deep draft, and people think we are blowing up our core? It's really more an emotional plea of losing some role players who we got to see grow, but to get to the next level tough decisions have to be made, and every single one of these so far were the right ones.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject:

I could understand if we traded BI or Kuz for someone like Kevin Love or Marc Gasol, but this talk of blowing up our youth for chasing all stars is nothing short of hyperbole.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

The thing I'm most concerned with is that the team is improving. The last three seasons made me want to quit basketball it was so bad. I love the effort on defense in particular. The fact that we don't have great defenders makes me respect the effort of the players and Luke as a coach even more. Oh, and don't sleep on the offense either. We went from an ISO heavy disjointed offense last season to an up tempo, ball and body movement offense this season. In my mind things are looking up.

GO LAKERS!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject:

Lakers should be about championships and not being also-rans in the playoffs.
We all know the current core without the 2 max is not winning any championships any time in the forseeable future.
That is the championship attitude brought in by Magic.

They have now masterfully manuevered the team into a position to get 2 max, whereas the previous FO hemmed the team into years of mediocrity.
In fact, the only way the previous regime's mistakes resulted in jeopardizing losing key 1st round picks during the tank.

Will they be able to turn the cap space into 2 max?
No one knows except LBJ and PG.
They are the only ones who know.

Is the FO able to push the cap space into 2019 for another try.
Yes, they can.
That is what you can ask for from a FO - vision, attitude and skill.

Whether they get 2 max in 2018/2019, lets hope so.
But I have seen enough to realize that we are in good hands whether it is 2 max, 1 max, or even 0 max.


Last edited by cal1piggy on Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject:

On paper, Magic and Pelinka make a great team.
Magic for his basketball knowledge and Pelinka for his knowledge of the NBA system and his tenacity.
Magic is the guy who says lets reach for the stars and Pelinka is a guy that says lets develop a rocket ship first.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
Done a great job creating max flexibility and cap space. Plus retaining their best talent.


Bingo.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Falling - not failing - marks for the most recent transaction.

Folks have fallen in love with a get rich quick scheme, the "add two max" or "add one max" player. I feel the the prospect of actually acquiring Paul George - let alone a second worthy max player - sucks in the near term. It's the strategy I have a problem with, because what I see likely in 2008-2009 is carrying two overpaid one year guys again who don't improve the club much. Painful stagnancy.

I had bought into the patience theme with each of the past two seasons because I felt that last week's young core was moving along an achievable path to success (i.e., development of high chemistry).

Now, that's gone.

It's funny when I hear this narrative, because it makes it sound like teams can go out and pick up All-Star players like picking up groceries. It takes careful planning and timing to put your team in that position in the first place, which is no easy task. This is not trading 2 first for a broken Steve Nash (which was the right move at the time since we were in contention) or trading 4 firsts for an again KG and Pierce (worst robbery in history).

We are getting the best of both worlds in keeping the best of our core (BI/Jules/Zo/Kuz/Hart) while getting short term replacement in production for JC and Nance (IT and Frye), while still having the best cap situation in the league, getting a pick back in a deep draft, and people think we are blowing up our core? It's really more an emotional plea of losing some role players who we got to see grow, but to get to the next level tough decisions have to be made, and every single one of these so far were the right ones.


Yes, it's funny when people call these guys "young core" like they're embiid or giannis or something. When the lakers lost 9 in a row, everyone wanted the guys dealt. Lakers have cheaper and better players in Hart and Kuzma filling in for Nance and Clarkson, give them and Randle more minutes. DLo is nothing special either and that deal was a good one for LA.

At the end of the day the Lakers are 23-32 and the 11th seed int he west. the core was going nowhere except the bottom rung of the playoff ladder next year.

It's like people forgot what this organization is about. Yes, you need to acquire some young cheap talent and go through the painful seasons to put yourself in the right position to potentially land free agents. They have and retained their highest ceiling, most productive young talent and traded back into the first round this year. Anyone complaining must be happy with mediocrity.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

Incomplete. I'll decide more next season, but I can definitely say they set themselves up to do what they originally stated as their goals.

I miss DLO and Nance, and Clarkson to a lesser extent, and Lou Williams to a much lesser extent, but the drafting has been exceptional, and to get Kuzma, Hart and TBryant, Brewer for backup, plus a mid 20's number one pick this year, plus the temporary services of Brook, KCP, IT and Frye, while in the process shedding Mozgov's albatross contract and allowing room to pick up about 1.9 Max free agents, most cap room in the NBA, and being smart enough to stick with Ball as the prime draft prospect, taken as a whole that's pretty effective. No matter what happens I can't give them an F at this stage.

The big question is whether their confidence in pulling in Max players is justified. And whether or not we keep Randle. If we whiff LMA style, don't keep Randle, struggle to make .500 next year, I'd give them a D, maybe C-.

If we do get PG13 or somebody just about as good, and we're a playoff team because of it, they go up to B.

2 Max and Lakers becoming a multiple playoff round team next year then obviously A.

Title contention in the next couple years then A+ no matter who we pick up.

Summa (bleep) Laude and Rhodes Scholar if they create the next sustainable Laker dynasty.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
trablos wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Falling - not failing - marks for the most recent transaction.

Folks have fallen in love with a get rich quick scheme, the "add two max" or "add one max" player. I feel the the prospect of actually acquiring Paul George - let alone a second worthy max player - sucks in the near term. It's the strategy I have a problem with, because what I see likely in 2008-2009 is carrying two overpaid one year guys again who don't improve the club much. Painful stagnancy.

I had bought into the patience theme with each of the past two seasons because I felt that last week's young core was moving along an achievable path to success (i.e., development of high chemistry).

Now, that's gone.

It's funny when I hear this narrative, because it makes it sound like teams can go out and pick up All-Star players like picking up groceries. It takes careful planning and timing to put your team in that position in the first place, which is no easy task. This is not trading 2 first for a broken Steve Nash (which was the right move at the time since we were in contention) or trading 4 firsts for an again KG and Pierce (worst robbery in history).

We are getting the best of both worlds in keeping the best of our core (BI/Jules/Zo/Kuz/Hart) while getting short term replacement in production for JC and Nance (IT and Frye), while still having the best cap situation in the league, getting a pick back in a deep draft, and people think we are blowing up our core? It's really more an emotional plea of losing some role players who we got to see grow, but to get to the next level tough decisions have to be made, and every single one of these so far were the right ones.


Yes, it's funny when people call these guys "young core" like they're embiid or giannis or something. When the lakers lost 9 in a row, everyone wanted the guys dealt. Lakers have cheaper and better players in Hart and Kuzma filling in for Nance and Clarkson, give them and Randle more minutes. DLo is nothing special either and that deal was a good one for LA.

At the end of the day the Lakers are 23-32 and the 11th seed int he west. the core was going nowhere except the bottom rung of the playoff ladder next year.

It's like people forgot what this organization is about. Yes, you need to acquire some young cheap talent and go through the painful seasons to put yourself in the right position to potentially land free agents. They have and retained their highest ceiling, most productive young talent and traded back into the first round this year. Anyone complaining must be happy with mediocrity.


when they were losing 9 in a row, some of us were emphasizing patience.

it is easy to complain, but it is far more difficult to say what they could have done better.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject:

Eh. How many threads and posts have we seen that basically recap what Magic has done and declare him to be either a success or a failure? Nothing new here. One group of people think that the mere creation of cap space is a success, and another group of people think that the creation of cap space is worthless unless you use it correctly. The difference between those viewpoints is smaller than it appears at first glance. It's a question of whether you give credit for creating an opportunity or whether you reserve credit until the opportunity is realized.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Eh. How many threads and posts have we seen that basically recap what Magic has done and declare him to be either a success or a failure? Nothing new here. One group of people think that the mere creation of cap space is a success, and another group of people think that the creation of cap space is worthless unless you use it correctly. The difference between those viewpoints is smaller than it appears at first glance. It's a question of whether you give credit for creating an opportunity or whether you reserve credit until the opportunity is realized.


Absolutely agree that perspective drives opinion.

But in this case it is similar to a degenerate gambler going all-in on a hand. Then discarding his two 10's because he knows in his heart that he will be drawing two Aces.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
trablos wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Falling - not failing - marks for the most recent transaction.

Folks have fallen in love with a get rich quick scheme, the "add two max" or "add one max" player. I feel the the prospect of actually acquiring Paul George - let alone a second worthy max player - sucks in the near term. It's the strategy I have a problem with, because what I see likely in 2008-2009 is carrying two overpaid one year guys again who don't improve the club much. Painful stagnancy.

I had bought into the patience theme with each of the past two seasons because I felt that last week's young core was moving along an achievable path to success (i.e., development of high chemistry).

Now, that's gone.

It's funny when I hear this narrative, because it makes it sound like teams can go out and pick up All-Star players like picking up groceries. It takes careful planning and timing to put your team in that position in the first place, which is no easy task. This is not trading 2 first for a broken Steve Nash (which was the right move at the time since we were in contention) or trading 4 firsts for an again KG and Pierce (worst robbery in history).

We are getting the best of both worlds in keeping the best of our core (BI/Jules/Zo/Kuz/Hart) while getting short term replacement in production for JC and Nance (IT and Frye), while still having the best cap situation in the league, getting a pick back in a deep draft, and people think we are blowing up our core? It's really more an emotional plea of losing some role players who we got to see grow, but to get to the next level tough decisions have to be made, and every single one of these so far were the right ones.


Yes, it's funny when people call these guys "young core" like they're embiid or giannis or something. When the lakers lost 9 in a row, everyone wanted the guys dealt. Lakers have cheaper and better players in Hart and Kuzma filling in for Nance and Clarkson, give them and Randle more minutes. DLo is nothing special either and that deal was a good one for LA.

At the end of the day the Lakers are 23-32 and the 11th seed int he west. the core was going nowhere except the bottom rung of the playoff ladder next year.

It's like people forgot what this organization is about. Yes, you need to acquire some young cheap talent and go through the painful seasons to put yourself in the right position to potentially land free agents. They have and retained their highest ceiling, most productive young talent and traded back into the first round this year. Anyone complaining must be happy with mediocrity.


Actually, I haven't forgotten what this organization was all about, but the current owners and managers may have lost their own way in finding the path back into the playoffs, into playoff relevance, into championship contention. The club is and has been stuck on reaching even palatable .500 ball and that my friend, is what this organization has been all about for five years or more.

That's just this fan's perception. There is no longer the Laker franchise that had Jerry West, Jerry Buss or a powerful version of Kobe Bryant. What we have here is just another NBA club, one which thinks it knows its way back to prominence. Until they prove they do, they don't.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

so far...going down the same path that they laid out from the beginning.

we'll see how the results turn out
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject:

Well positioned - B so far
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Absolutely agree that perspective drives opinion.

But in this case it is similar to a degenerate gambler going all-in on a hand. Then discarding his two 10's because he knows in his heart that he will be drawing two Aces.


I play a lot of poker. Explain how go all in and then discard two 10's? Do you mean they went all in and then folded there hand? Also if you think they through away two 10's describe what they had with the two 10's?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Eh. How many threads and posts have we seen that basically recap what Magic has done and declare him to be either a success or a failure? Nothing new here. One group of people think that the mere creation of cap space is a success, and another group of people think that the creation of cap space is worthless unless you use it correctly. The difference between those viewpoints is smaller than it appears at first glance. It's a question of whether you give credit for creating an opportunity or whether you reserve credit until the opportunity is realized.


Absolutely agree that perspective drives opinion.

But in this case it is similar to a degenerate gambler going all-in on a hand. Then discarding his two 10's because he knows in his heart that he will be drawing two Aces.


Like you, I consider the two max free agent strategy to be a poor gamble. However, if Magic pulls it off, I'll tip my cap to him.
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