How can the Lakers hide IT on defense?
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MIMLaker
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject:

No way to know just yet. In theory, with both of them healthy, Lonzo's Spider-sense of passing lanes, weak-side rotation blocks, and nose-for-the-ball rebounds could compensate for IT's lack of height and defensive wingspan.

A lineup of those two plus Ingram (length), Randle (strength and switches) and Lopez (size, backstop) could be effective against against most teams. But we'd have to avoid putting in KCP or Hart at the 3 when IT is out there, because we simply can't afford 2 height mismatches at once. Randle at C can negate some of that due to brute strength, but Hart and KCP don't have that kind of power at the 3 spot.

To make it work, though, IT would have to pressure the opposing point early in the clock, and fight over the inevitable screens to stick with his man and avoid switches. He'd have to be more of a gnat-like disruptor and try to throw off an opposing team's rhythm, kind of like a DB bumping a WR hard right at the line of scrimmage on timing patterns.

I swear, though, seeing him on the court with Randle is like watching a Kevin hart-Dwayne Johnson buddy movie on a basketball court. Takes some getting used to.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

MIMLaker wrote:
No way to know just yet. In theory, with both of them healthy, Lonzo's Spider-sense of passing lanes, weak-side rotation blocks, and nose-for-the-ball rebounds could compensate for IT's lack of height and defensive wingspan.

A lineup of those two plus Ingram (length), Randle (strength and switches) and Lopez (size, backstop) could be effective against against most teams. But we'd have to avoid putting in KCP or Hart at the 3 when IT is out there, because we simply can't afford 2 height mismatches at once. Randle at C can negate some of that due to brute strength, but Hart and KCP don't have that kind of power at the 3 spot.

To make it work, though, IT would have to pressure the opposing point early in the clock, and fight over the inevitable screens to stick with his man and avoid switches. He'd have to be more of a gnat-like disruptor and try to throw off an opposing team's rhythm, kind of like a DB bumping a WR hard right at the line of scrimmage on timing patterns.

I swear, though, seeing him on the court with Randle is like watching a Kevin hart-Dwayne Johnson buddy movie on a basketball court. Takes some getting used to.


I've never watched IT much with his previous teams, but the matchups against Dirk were borderline cartoonish.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:21 am    Post subject:

I know I got real mad when they called Randle for a offensive foul. He was going up and used his off hand.

But the very next play A big went up on IT and used his off hand and they called IT with the foul.

Some shady calls that swung the momentum on the end
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

KCP can't guard bigger players either. They shouldn't be playing together. Hart and Lonzo can guard up.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.


It's true we replaced the 77th worst DRPM (Clarkson) with the 95th DRPM but you forgot to mention that Isaiah was the 4th best in ORPM last season while Clarkson was 39th... and 26th this season.

I call that at minimum a push... and if you can find a system that works with a team starved for scoring, creating, 3 pt shooting, and ft. shooting... you find a way to make it work... especially if he can agree to platoon or be a 6th man again.

Do you think genius Popovich gets rid of Patty Mills who is 94th in DRPM or that Rick Carlisle gets rid of Dennis Smith Jr. who is 93rd?

There is a reason that talented offensive players get a pass... and I remember even reading that some wanted Jameer Nelson who is 90th and of course we won't even mention those who cried about DLO at 89th.

Isaiah scores better than any of those... yet I find it hard to believe most of you wouldn't welcome back DLO and take DSJ.

We need to find a defensive solution yes... but throwing the offensive baby out with the bathwater isn't always the answer.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Looking at the stats looks like our FT was the only difference

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400975576
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:
ESPN just posted a stat that the Mavs shot 44% when IT was in the game last night, 73% when he was on the bench. So yeah, there are lot of unjustified hot takes in this thread. R-E-L-A-X, relax...


How many FT's did the Mavs shoot when IT was on the floor? Does that account for all the fouls the Lakers committed because of the damn mismatches that IT being on the floor presented? Lakers were scrambing big time trying to help that midget
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Lakers 4 eva wrote:
TheBlackMamba wrote:
ESPN just posted a stat that the Mavs shot 44% when IT was in the game last night, 73% when he was on the bench. So yeah, there are lot of unjustified hot takes in this thread. R-E-L-A-X, relax...


How many FT's did the Mavs shoot when IT was on the floor? Does that account for all the fouls the Lakers committed because of the damn mismatches that IT being on the floor presented? Lakers were scrambing big time trying to help that midget


Randle compared to other bigs is a midget..

We got out rebounded and had to foul because we had no rim protection..

Walton should have had lopez in at the end of the game.. Thats why we lost.

Not because of IT
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.


It's true we replaced the 77th worst DRPM (Clarkson) with the 95th DRPM but you forgot to mention that Isaiah was the 4th best in ORPM last season while Clarkson was 39th... and 26th this season.

I call that at minimum a push... and if you can find a system that works with a team starved for scoring, creating, 3 pt shooting, and ft. shooting... you find a way to make it work... especially if he can agree to platoon or be a 6th man again.

Do you think genius Popovich gets rid of Patty Mills who is 94th in DRPM or that Rick Carlisle gets rid of Dennis Smith Jr. who is 93rd?

There is a reason that talented offensive players get a pass... and I remember even reading that some wanted Jameer Nelson who is 90th and of course we won't even mention those who cried about DLO at 89th.

Isaiah scores better than any of those... yet I find it hard to believe most of you wouldn't welcome back DLO and take DSJ.

We need to find a defensive solution yes... but throwing the offensive baby out with the bathwater isn't always the answer.


Sure, but that's not what I was responding to. There is no magical way to hide his abysmal defense. The Celtics sure didn't find a way to do it.

But sure, I agree with you that he may be a net positive. Last year, IT had an ORPM of +5.72, which trailed only Curry, Westbrook, and Harden. He had a DRPM of -3.89, which was last in the league by a sizable margin. The net was +1.83. So as much as he sucked on defense, he made himself useful on offense. If he can produce enough on offense for us, he could be a net benefit.

This wouldn't matter so much if he was just another player. There are a lot of PGs who can't post a net +1.83. But IT briefly brushed with superstar status, and people have different expectations for IT than they have for, say, Ennis.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.


It's true we replaced the 77th worst DRPM (Clarkson) with the 95th DRPM but you forgot to mention that Isaiah was the 4th best in ORPM last season while Clarkson was 39th... and 26th this season.

I call that at minimum a push... and if you can find a system that works with a team starved for scoring, creating, 3 pt shooting, and ft. shooting... you find a way to make it work... especially if he can agree to platoon or be a 6th man again.

Do you think genius Popovich gets rid of Patty Mills who is 94th in DRPM or that Rick Carlisle gets rid of Dennis Smith Jr. who is 93rd?

There is a reason that talented offensive players get a pass... and I remember even reading that some wanted Jameer Nelson who is 90th and of course we won't even mention those who cried about DLO at 89th.

Isaiah scores better than any of those... yet I find it hard to believe most of you wouldn't welcome back DLO and take DSJ.

We need to find a defensive solution yes... but throwing the offensive baby out with the bathwater isn't always the answer.


Sure, but that's not what I was responding to. There is no magical way to hide his abysmal defense. The Celtics sure didn't find a way to do it.

But sure, I agree with you that he may be a net positive. Last year, IT had an ORPM of +5.72, which trailed only Curry, Westbrook, and Harden. He had a DRPM of -3.89, which was last in the league by a sizable margin. The net was +1.83. So as much as he sucked on defense, he made himself useful on offense. If he can produce enough on offense for us, he could be a net benefit.

This wouldn't matter so much if he was just another player. There are a lot of PGs who can't post a net +1.83. But IT briefly brushed with superstar status, and people have different expectations for IT than they have for, say, Ennis.


That's all I was saying... He fills three needs... shot creation, outside shooting, backup point guard at an elite level while only slightly injuring us on defense. We didn't trade Lonzo for him... we traded Clarkson... yet people here are acting like the sky is falling.

If we sign George and LeBron... fine we don't need him... but I rather have him than these journeyman names I keep seeing thrown around here.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject:

^^^^

Sure. But for all of his defensive problems, he's going to command more money and years than we are likely to offer. He's also going to want a lot more playing time than we can offer. Ball is going to be getting 30+ minutes at the point.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:56 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
You need to surround Isaiah with four good defenders with length, preferably with at least one ball pressure guard. Boston had three in Smart, Bradley and Rozier. They also had length in Crowder and Brown while Horford was one of the best defensive bigs in the league.

Once Zo is back I think we will have the defenders with length part, though Lopez will have to work hard to do his best Horford impersonation. We also lack the pressure guard (wish Pope was the defensive guard his rep suggested). Ironically Nance would have been a good fit for what we need.


You left out Amir Johnson who was the Celtics best baseline defender. He's an FA next year. If Thomas Bryant doesn't figure out how to defend by the end of this season, Amir might be a good 2nd unit candidate to fill in the defensive hole left by Nance's departure.

Maybe the veteran's minimum to come home to L.A.?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject:

I'm genuinely curious, can someone tell me what makes Stevens one of the best coaches in the league? What does he do different than everyone else?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
I'm genuinely curious, can someone tell me what makes Stevens one of the best coaches in the league? What does he do different than everyone else?


I don't know, let's ask him, after that trounching the Cavs just gave them.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
I'm genuinely curious, can someone tell me what makes Stevens one of the best coaches in the league? What does he do different than everyone else?


He seems to be a really good communicator and motivator. Players seem to like playing for him. He has a system, and he gets guys to buy into it. He is like Popovich in that respect. However, it remains to be seen whether this will translate into high level success. There have been guys like Adelman who could never get over the hump.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Best way to hide him is to trade him to SAC or PHX and let those teams wither and die. He makes every team 4 vs 5 when he is on the court and nothing can stop that from happening.

Enjoy the payday you got in CAV and LAL, cause it will be ending soon you over rated Height Challenged fool.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject:

Last year in Boston:

Defensive Rating with Isaiah Thomas on court - 112.0
Defensive Rating with Isaiah Thomas off court - 102.3

Boston was very bad on defense with IT on the court.....but the gap between on and off was even bigger this year in Cleveland. He single handedly kills his teams defense when he is on the court.

There is no comparison to Clarkson. This season we were slightly better on defense when Clarkson was on the court compared to when he was off the court.

Defensive Rating with Clarkson on court - 107.7
Defensive Rating with Clarkson off court - 108.1
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Last year in Boston:

Defensive Rating with Isaiah Thomas on court - 112.0
Defensive Rating with Isaiah Thomas off court - 102.3

Boston was very bad on defense with IT on the court.....but the gap between on and off was even bigger this year in Cleveland. He single handedly kills his teams defense when he is on the court.

There is no comparison to Clarkson. This season we were slightly better on defense when Clarkson was on the court compared to when he was off the court.

Defensive Rating with Clarkson on court - 107.7
Defensive Rating with Clarkson off court - 108.1


Clarkson ranks 77th in DRPM among point guards... No one's arguing that IT isn't a liability on defense... my point was that if you factor in his offensive productivity, combined with a rim protector you might be able to find a gain in some of our other pending needs.

And no one still has addressed my question as to why they would want DSJ who is ranked 93rd in DRPM or DLO who is ranked 89th... yet somehow IT who was ranked 4th in ORPM is too much of a liability at 95th

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/1
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Last year in Boston:

Defensive Rating with Isaiah Thomas on court - 112.0
Defensive Rating with Isaiah Thomas off court - 102.3

Boston was very bad on defense with IT on the court.....but the gap between on and off was even bigger this year in Cleveland. He single handedly kills his teams defense when he is on the court.

There is no comparison to Clarkson. This season we were slightly better on defense when Clarkson was on the court compared to when he was off the court.

Defensive Rating with Clarkson on court - 107.7
Defensive Rating with Clarkson off court - 108.1


Clarkson ranks 77th in DRPM among point guards... No one's arguing that IT isn't a liability on defense... my point was that if you factor in his offensive productivity, combined with a rim protector you might be able to find a gain in some of our other pending needs.

And no one still has addressed my question as to why they would want DSJ who is ranked 93rd in DRPM or DLO who is ranked 89th... yet somehow IT who was ranked 4th in ORPM is too much of a liability at 95th

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/1


my opinion has and will be DRPM is a garbage number....I think on/off is imperfect but a much better indicator of how a player effects his teams defense.....DRPM never has meant anything to me.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.


This isn't football, where you have defensive players playing defense and offensive players playing offense. Bball is a 2 way game. You just can't take a player's defensive stats without looking at what he does on the other end of the floor.

"Hiding" is the wrong word to describe what the Celtics was doing with IT's defense. It's more appropriate to say they "overcame" his deficiencies. To a large part, IT himself was responsible for neutraling his own shortcomings.

From 82 games:

2016-2017 Boston Points Allowed per 100 possessions
113.0 PTS W/ IT
103.5 PTS W/O IT
9.6 PTS more points given up with IT on the floor

2016-2017 Boston Points Scored per 100 possessions
117.5 PTS W/ IT
103.3 PTS W/O IT
14.1 PTS more points scored with IT on the floor

It's pretty obvious that his ability to make it rain buckets offset his defensive shortcomings and there are winning scenarios associated with his floor time.

There are 2 other point guards who probably have a similar impact to their respective team's offensive and defensive numbers: James Harden and Damion Lillard. Both guys are crap defenders, but not to the extent of the undersized IT, but their teams are better off defensively, but way worse offensively if they're sitting.

Just thinking out loud here...

To me, it comes down to this: A championship team needs 2-3 guys who can singlehandly take over a game and destroy the opposition with a flurry of points on a night in, night out basis, and who can't be stopped when they're on fire. There's only a handful of guys who can do this. Off the top of my head:

Harden
Paul
LBJ
KD
Curry
Kyrie
AD
Westbrook

Klay
DeRozan
Wall
Beale
Lilliard
McCollum
Butler
Kahwi

Lou Will
Booker
Donovan Mitchell?

I probably left out few, but the point is they don't grow on trees. Nobody should forget that IT was in that top echelon before he got hurt.

It's obvious the deal was to dump salary. The fact that IT was included was a gift. The Lakers haven't had anyone like this since pre-archilles tear Kobe. It's incumbent on the FO and Luke to see what IT can do for this team.

2 incoming stars + IT coming off the bench on a bargain contract? That's certainly worth a look.

Keep in mind also, if you re-sign IT on a low budget one year deal and he plays back into form, he could be worth a first round pick at the trade deadline.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:39 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
I heard he fits inside the valuables safe that they have in the lockers. That's probably it.



Sounds like a plan...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject:

misterioso wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Practice wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Can’t.

The Celtics seemingly did a pretty good job at it.


Let's kill that myth.

2017 Celtics with IT: DRtg of 108.4 (13th of 30)
2018 Celtics w/o IT: DRtg of 102.4 (1st of 30)

I'm not saying that unloading IT accounts for all of that difference. I'm saying that they did not succeed in hiding him on defense. I remember watching games last year in which you could see how the need to protect IT left wide open gaps down the middle of the defense.

IT was so bad on defense that Kyrie Irving seems like a good defender by comparison. Make no mistake -- Kyrie Irving is still a lousy defender. He ranks 67th out of 97 in DRPM at the PG position. But Brad Stevens' system can function with Irving in ways that it could never function with IT. At times, Stevens' system actually makes Irving look like a good defender. He isn't.

Luke has done a fantastic job of getting guys to play defense. He even has Kuzma playing a little bit of defense, though not enough to compensate for the loss of Nance. But I don't think Luke can do anything with IT.


This isn't football, where you have defensive players playing defense and offensive players playing offense. Bball is a 2 way game. You just can't take a player's defensive stats without looking at what he does on the other end of the floor.

"Hiding" is the wrong word to describe what the Celtics was doing with IT's defense. It's more appropriate to say they "overcame" his deficiencies. To a large part, IT himself was responsible for neutraling his own shortcomings.

From 82 games:

2016-2017 Boston Points Allowed per 100 possessions
113.0 PTS W/ IT
103.5 PTS W/O IT
9.6 PTS more points given up with IT on the floor

2016-2017 Boston Points Scored per 100 possessions
117.5 PTS W/ IT
103.3 PTS W/O IT
14.1 PTS more points scored with IT on the floor

It's pretty obvious that his ability to make it rain buckets offset his defensive shortcomings and there are winning scenarios associated with his floor time.

There are 2 other point guards who probably have a similar impact to their respective team's offensive and defensive numbers: James Harden and Damion Lillard. Both guys are crap defenders, but not to the extent of the undersized IT, but their teams are better off defensively, but way worse offensively if they're sitting.

Just thinking out loud here...

To me, it comes down to this: A championship team needs 2-3 guys who can singlehandly take over a game and destroy the opposition with a flurry of points on a night in, night out basis, and who can't be stopped when they're on fire. There's only a handful of guys who can do this. Off the top of my head:

Harden
Paul
LBJ
KD
Curry
Kyrie
AD
Westbrook

Klay
DeRozan
Wall
Beale
Lilliard
McCollum
Butler
Kahwi

Lou Will
Booker
Donovan Mitchell?

I probably left out few, but the point is they don't grow on trees. Nobody should forget that IT was in that top echelon before he got hurt.

It's obvious the deal was to dump salary. The fact that IT was included was a gift. The Lakers haven't had anyone like this since pre-archilles tear Kobe. It's incumbent on the FO and Luke to see what IT can do for this team.

2 incoming stars + IT coming off the bench on a bargain contract? That's certainly worth a look.

Keep in mind also, if you re-sign IT on a low budget one year deal and he plays back into form, he could be worth a first round pick at the trade deadline.


Well said, and yet to be intelligently refuted by most who keep repeating stats about IT's defense without any accounting of what he offers in other categories. It's like if someone continuously pointed out Roberson or Rodman's scoring while complete ignoring what they offered on defense or rebounding.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject:

misterioso wrote:
Keep in mind also, if you re-sign IT on a low budget one year deal and he plays back into form, he could be worth a first round pick at the trade deadline.


what form? The IT that we saw last night was pretty close to Thomas at his best? Look at his per 36 numbers from last night and Boston....he actually shot the ball much more efficiently last night than he did in Boston....had more assists last night. I am not sure what you plan on getting when he "returns to form"?


Last edited by adkindo on Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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