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BizLA Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017 Posts: 2368
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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BizLA Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017 Posts: 2368
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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I would really like to see a GT breakdown of how the Celtics overcame Isaiah’s terrible defense and still won 52 games or whatever it was. |
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mookielala Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Posts: 3026
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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BizLA wrote: | I would really like to see a GT breakdown of how the Celtics overcame Isaiah’s terrible defense and still won 52 games or whatever it was. |
+ 1 |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm. How about they had more than 1 game to figure it all out? _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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BizLA Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017 Posts: 2368
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Hmm. How about they had more than 1 game to figure it all out? |
True but you have to admit, from what I saw from him in Cleveland and his 1 game here, he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities I’ve ever witnessed |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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BizLA wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hmm. How about they had more than 1 game to figure it all out? |
True but you have to admit, from what I saw from him in Cleveland and his 1 game here, he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities I’ve ever witnessed |
Sure but he also lit the league up last year. I’d wait more than 1 game to write him off this year. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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BizLA Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017 Posts: 2368
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | BizLA wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hmm. How about they had more than 1 game to figure it all out? |
True but you have to admit, from what I saw from him in Cleveland and his 1 game here, he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities I’ve ever witnessed |
Sure but he also lit the league up last year. I’d wait more than 1 game to write him off this year. |
I think it’s about the 16th |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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BizLA wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BizLA wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hmm. How about they had more than 1 game to figure it all out? |
True but you have to admit, from what I saw from him in Cleveland and his 1 game here, he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities I’ve ever witnessed |
Sure but he also lit the league up last year. I’d wait more than 1 game to write him off this year. |
I think it’s about the 16th |
16 games with the Lakers? He just riffed his way to 22 points tonight, 16 at the half. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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dao Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2013 Posts: 5572
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Play him only with the second unit. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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defense wrote: | He's so small
Should be easy |
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BizLA Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017 Posts: 2368
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | BizLA wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | BizLA wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Hmm. How about they had more than 1 game to figure it all out? |
True but you have to admit, from what I saw from him in Cleveland and his 1 game here, he is one of the biggest defensive liabilities I’ve ever witnessed |
Sure but he also lit the league up last year. I’d wait more than 1 game to write him off this year. |
I think it’s about the 16th |
16 games with the Lakers? He just riffed his way to 22 points tonight, 16 at the half. |
I know he’s a good scorer it’s just painful watching the Mavs abuse him on defense with guys I never even heard of. Who’s the guy that got the flagrant foul after he posted up Thomas? Thomas made him look like a 6’7” Hakeem |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Luke’s switch everything plan can’t work with IT. Adjust. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Utilize him the same as we utilized JC. He was there for offense, not his defense. But he was a role player, not a key cog. Same with IT. I don't think we're deep enough right now to hide him all game. Instant offense when we need it, but don't rely on him to close games if we have a lead and a solid defense will win it instead. |
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BizLA Star Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2017 Posts: 2368
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Utilize him the same as we utilized JC. He was there for offense, not his defense. But he was a role player, not a key cog. Same with IT. I don't think we're deep enough right now to hide him all game. Instant offense when we need it, but don't rely on him to close games if we have a lead and a solid defense will win it instead. |
Hard to utilize him the same when Clarkson’s almost a foot taller and no where near the same defensive breakdown waiting to happen |
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Daphanabe Star Player
Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Posts: 2768
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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SocalDevin wrote: | DancingBarry wrote: | It will be tough.
You can't switch with him. That's a last resort.
You have to have a big plugging the paint so that you can give up the midrange or protect the rim. So if that's Lopez, then you hope Lopez isn't going up against a guy like Dirk who is a knock down three shooter at the C spot when he's out there.
If you don't have Lopez out there, then you should probably be more aggressive trapping off the screens. Or you hope you can find players that allow IT to go under screens.
Ice the screens whenever you can. IT was expecting that a couple times tonight and we weren't, so those were straight line drives.
You've got to always stick him on the small guys out there or any non-threat players.
If he's not tagging the roll man, then sit him.
Occasional zone to mix things up and get teams out of their comfort zone. Especially off deadballs/timeouts. Got to be more unpredictable.
Bring in DFish to teach him how to fall down and draw charges. He should have picked this up from Marcus Smart.
Voodoo.
I'm tapped... |
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Brilliant! Spot on as always. I was so frustrated Luke couldn’t comprehend your first point. Classic Luke stubbornness, he kept on switching since that’s his ‘plan’ even though it clearly wasn’t working. |
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RusselDoeee01 Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 1072
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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This is getting blown out of proportion.
Celtics were able to go to the eastern conference finals with Thomas playing 40 minutes a game.
If we would have got 2 calls to go our ways in the last 3 min we would have won and nobody would be talking about his defense right now.
Clarkson was terrible on defense too.. the bugger factor this game was probably not having nance to rebound and protect the rim. |
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TheBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2007 Posts: 9057
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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Tonight was an example of how correlation isn't necessarily causation. He's bad, yes. But we were horrific as a team tonight. Not one player pulled their weight on defense, which made it all the more worse when IT was in the game. Move on to the next one. Just like if IT went off and scored 30+ tonight, I'm not going to draw any major conclusions off of one game that he didn't even get to practice for. |
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misterioso Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 Posts: 616
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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We need some positive thoughts here.
Having IT on the floor will improve the Lakers defense... eventually. What better way is there to get better at defending than by playing 4 on 5 basketball in real game conditions because that's what they will be doing.
The help defense will get better, the call outs on switches will get better, weakside rotations will get better. All the guys on the floor with IT will have to step up their defensive games in order to protect him.
It's going to be something like pulling out a bad tooth without anesthesia. It's gonna hurt, but it will be much better later...
Yeah, it's going to be ugly at the beginning, but the youngsters will have no choice but to get better at defense in order to integrate IT into the game plan.
What IT did in Boston can't be duplicated here, at least not yet. He was playing alongside Bradley, Smart, Crowder, and Amir Johnson, 4 strong defenders who were able to cover his deficiencies. IMO, that was a perfect storm for him. Unless he has that type of personnel around him, he is not a starter, he is instead a 6th man when you need a guy who can get you a lead. But in crunch time defensive possessions, his butt needs to be on the bench.
IMO, the sooner he figures out that he's 6th man, the longer and more productive his career will be. Guys like Vinnie Johnson, Van Exel, Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford, and Lou Williams had great careers by coming off the bench and lighting up the scoreboard. But these were also guys who didn't or don't play defense, guys who got pulled out of close games because their coaches didn't want them giving up easy buckets and that's exactly what needs to happen with IT.
Luke is doing right by not starting him. Luke's next step is to start pulling him when stops are required.
In tonight's game, Hart should have been on the floor instead of IT when the Lakers were within 2 points. Apparently Like forgot his mantra "Defense wins games." |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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BizLA wrote: | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Utilize him the same as we utilized JC. He was there for offense, not his defense. But he was a role player, not a key cog. Same with IT. I don't think we're deep enough right now to hide him all game. Instant offense when we need it, but don't rely on him to close games if we have a lead and a solid defense will win it instead. |
Hard to utilize him the same when Clarkson’s almost a foot taller and no where near the same defensive breakdown waiting to happen |
Clarkson's defense was lacking as well. His role was offense off the bench. I'm not saying he's the same as Clarkson, I'm saying the role Clarkson played off the bench is the one best suited for IT, if we're going to have any chance of hiding his tiny stature on defense.
Can't have him switching off on starting bigs at winning time. Against a tall team I'd just as soon see Lopez/Randle/Ingram/Hart/Ball to close games. Smaller team, shift Randle to center, insert KCP, or if we need offense then we consider Kuz or IT depending on the matchups and who's performing. But don't expect IT to grow a foot taller and defend wings or big men. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like any matador getting significant minutes. He's worse than Lou Williams on D. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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misterioso wrote: | We need some positive thoughts here.
Having IT on the floor will improve the Lakers defense... eventually. What better way is there to get better at defending than by playing 4 on 5 basketball in real game conditions because that's what they will be doing.
The help defense will get better, the call outs on switches will get better, weakside rotations will get better. All the guys on the floor with IT will have to step up their defensive games in order to protect him.
It's going to be something like pulling out a bad tooth without anesthesia. It's gonna hurt, but it will be much better later...
Yeah, it's going to be ugly at the beginning, but the youngsters will have no choice but to get better at defense in order to integrate IT into the game plan.
What IT did in Boston can't be duplicated here, at least not yet. He was playing alongside Bradley, Smart, Crowder, and Amir Johnson, 4 strong defenders who were able to cover his deficiencies. IMO, that was a perfect storm for him. Unless he has that type of personnel around him, he is not a starter, he is instead a 6th man when you need a guy who can get you a lead. But in crunch time defensive possessions, his butt needs to be on the bench.
IMO, the sooner he figures out that he's 6th man, the longer and more productive his career will be. Guys like Vinnie Johnson, Van Exel, Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford, and Lou Williams had great careers by coming off the bench and lighting up the scoreboard. But these were also guys who didn't or don't play defense, guys who got pulled out of close games because their coaches didn't want them giving up easy buckets and that's exactly what needs to happen with IT.
Luke is doing right by not starting him. Luke's next step is to start pulling him when stops are required.
In tonight's game, Hart should have been on the floor instead of IT when the Lakers were within 2 points. Apparently Like forgot his mantra "Defense wins games." |
I agree on all counts. |
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Nnamdi21 Star Player
Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 3715
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Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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Carlisle is one of the best coaches who will milk any mismatches. Hopefully not many are stubborn as him in exposing IT. Boston did okay last year so there is some hope. |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:00 am Post subject: |
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mookielala wrote: | BizLA wrote: | I would really like to see a GT breakdown of how the Celtics overcame Isaiah’s terrible defense and still won 52 games or whatever it was. |
+ 1 |
Guys like Avery Bradley, Marcus smart, and Jae Crowder to begin with. Most of their players were solid or better defenders, so they could get away with one guy being not so good. |
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DrDent Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jun 2016 Posts: 12975
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:03 am Post subject: |
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TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | BizLA wrote: | TooMuchMajicBuss wrote: | Utilize him the same as we utilized JC. He was there for offense, not his defense. But he was a role player, not a key cog. Same with IT. I don't think we're deep enough right now to hide him all game. Instant offense when we need it, but don't rely on him to close games if we have a lead and a solid defense will win it instead. |
Hard to utilize him the same when Clarkson’s almost a foot taller and no where near the same defensive breakdown waiting to happen |
Clarkson's defense was lacking as well. His role was offense off the bench. I'm not saying he's the same as Clarkson, I'm saying the role Clarkson played off the bench is the one best suited for IT, if we're going to have any chance of hiding his tiny stature on defense.
Can't have him switching off on starting bigs at winning time. Against a tall team I'd just as soon see Lopez/Randle/Ingram/Hart/Ball to close games. Smaller team, shift Randle to center, insert KCP, or if we need offense then we consider Kuz or IT depending on the matchups and who's performing. But don't expect IT to grow a foot taller and defend wings or big men. |
Agreed. I like ITs offense and dude at least hits his FTs (mostly). But you have to be smart with his usage. If the other team is just not cooling off you probably need guys out there who can help with that...and IT isn't that guy. |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:06 am Post subject: |
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misterioso wrote: | We need some positive thoughts here.
Having IT on the floor will improve the Lakers defense... eventually. What better way is there to get better at defending than by playing 4 on 5 basketball in real game conditions because that's what they will be doing.
The help defense will get better, the call outs on switches will get better, weakside rotations will get better. All the guys on the floor with IT will have to step up their defensive games in order to protect him.
It's going to be something like pulling out a bad tooth without anesthesia. It's gonna hurt, but it will be much better later...
Yeah, it's going to be ugly at the beginning, but the youngsters will have no choice but to get better at defense in order to integrate IT into the game plan.
What IT did in Boston can't be duplicated here, at least not yet. He was playing alongside Bradley, Smart, Crowder, and Amir Johnson, 4 strong defenders who were able to cover his deficiencies. IMO, that was a perfect storm for him. Unless he has that type of personnel around him, he is not a starter, he is instead a 6th man when you need a guy who can get you a lead. But in crunch time defensive possessions, his butt needs to be on the bench.
IMO, the sooner he figures out that he's 6th man, the longer and more productive his career will be. Guys like Vinnie Johnson, Van Exel, Jason Terry, Jamal Crawford, and Lou Williams had great careers by coming off the bench and lighting up the scoreboard. But these were also guys who didn't or don't play defense, guys who got pulled out of close games because their coaches didn't want them giving up easy buckets and that's exactly what needs to happen with IT.
Luke is doing right by not starting him. Luke's next step is to start pulling him when stops are required.
In tonight's game, Hart should have been on the floor instead of IT when the Lakers were within 2 points. Apparently Like forgot his mantra "Defense wins games." |
Good post.. |
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