Official “ IT piss and moan fest “ Thread
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject:

L4L4K3RS wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
The overreaction on a game to game basis from this fan base is truly something special. The whole team decided to play no defense at all - as evidenced by the 58 points while IT was on the bench - but it's all the new guys fault.

Cleveland has blown out everyone they've played since the trade and we haven't held a team to less than 130 points.

#firemaglinka


If the other team scored 130 points but only 58 of those points were scored while he was on the bench, it seems to me that a vast majority of the scoring was done while he was on the court which is due to the fact that a minion is playing in the NBA, he has limited upside on offense compared to other players who play the same position and a huge (bleep) problem on Defense because he cannot guard anyone. He makes the Lakers a 4 player team when he is on the court. He is the opposite of Kwame Brown who also made the Lakers a 4 player team when he was on the court but Kwame was terrible at offense and okay on defense. Same problem, just on opposite sides of the ball.


Wait, you're saying that the other team scored more points in the 31 minutes he was on the court then they did in the 17 minutes he was on the bench? Fascinating.

Look, he ain't good at defense. Not now, not ever. The team he was on last year figured it out. Maybe give him more than 31 minutes before we declare that he's unfit to wear an NBA uniform.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
L4L4K3RS wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
The overreaction on a game to game basis from this fan base is truly something special. The whole team decided to play no defense at all - as evidenced by the 58 points while IT was on the bench - but it's all the new guys fault.

Cleveland has blown out everyone they've played since the trade and we haven't held a team to less than 130 points.

#firemaglinka


If the other team scored 130 points but only 58 of those points were scored while he was on the bench, it seems to me that a vast majority of the scoring was done while he was on the court which is due to the fact that a minion is playing in the NBA, he has limited upside on offense compared to other players who play the same position and a huge (bleep) problem on Defense because he cannot guard anyone. He makes the Lakers a 4 player team when he is on the court. He is the opposite of Kwame Brown who also made the Lakers a 4 player team when he was on the court but Kwame was terrible at offense and okay on defense. Same problem, just on opposite sides of the ball.


Wait, you're saying that the other team scored more points in the 31 minutes he was on the court then they did in the 17 minutes he was on the bench? Fascinating.

Look, he ain't good at defense. Not now, not ever. The team he was on last year figured it out. Maybe give him more than 31 minutes before we declare that he's unfit to wear an NBA uniform.


"Look, he ain't good at defense. Not now, not ever." I think that's what everyone is saying. Odds are Brad is better than Luke in terms of figuring it out. So you can project from there. Hope they figure it out. But it isn't unreasonable for folks to not hold their breaths.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject:

cooleggs wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
L4L4K3RS wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
The overreaction on a game to game basis from this fan base is truly something special. The whole team decided to play no defense at all - as evidenced by the 58 points while IT was on the bench - but it's all the new guys fault.

Cleveland has blown out everyone they've played since the trade and we haven't held a team to less than 130 points.

#firemaglinka


If the other team scored 130 points but only 58 of those points were scored while he was on the bench, it seems to me that a vast majority of the scoring was done while he was on the court which is due to the fact that a minion is playing in the NBA, he has limited upside on offense compared to other players who play the same position and a huge (bleep) problem on Defense because he cannot guard anyone. He makes the Lakers a 4 player team when he is on the court. He is the opposite of Kwame Brown who also made the Lakers a 4 player team when he was on the court but Kwame was terrible at offense and okay on defense. Same problem, just on opposite sides of the ball.


Wait, you're saying that the other team scored more points in the 31 minutes he was on the court then they did in the 17 minutes he was on the bench? Fascinating.

Look, he ain't good at defense. Not now, not ever. The team he was on last year figured it out. Maybe give him more than 31 minutes before we declare that he's unfit to wear an NBA uniform.


"Look, he ain't good at defense. Not now, not ever." I think that's what everyone is saying. Odds are Brad is better than Luke in terms of figuring it out. So you can project from there. Hope they figure it out. But it isn't unreasonable for folks to not hold their breaths.


No. Some people are saying that, which is a reasonable response. Other people are acting like we just traded gold for a bag of rocks. I'm just suggesting that we take a deep breath. If we woulda won the game 131-130 this thread probably wouldn't exist.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject:

It’s one deserved loss, but a necessary one. Luke needed to know the capability of his new player against real competition. He needed to see if IT could hit both wide open and contested shots. If he could facilitate offensively, and just how our players reacted to ITs presence,on defense. It’s a useful game to read tape for the coaching staff. We will have given IT a confidence boost, and have guidance on feedback from the last game. Yes, the sky is not falling.
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cooleggs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Well - if some are going as far as comparing IT to a bag of rocks -- it ain't because of his O -- it's because of his D.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:16 pm    Post subject:

cooleggs wrote:
Well - if some are going as far as comparing IT to a bag of rocks -- it ain't because of his O -- it's because of his D.


The gentleman or lady that I quoted included the statement, "he has limited upside on offense compared to other players who play the same position".

Anywho my two cents weren't directed at you and those posters similar. You seem to be rational about your discussion. I just think that it's entertaining when the vocal minority has us going from the 8 seed to ruining our future in the span of 24 hours.
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cooleggs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject:

Touche

I think I do share some of the disappointment of those folks you speak of in so far as seeing the hard ceiling of IT, contrasted with the open excitement of what could our young guys have become. IT is what he is - and that's not good enough, sans the right coach and supporting cast. It's just not as interesting as, "Will JC improve his decision making and defense and become a better player" or "who will be the next victim of the LN poster making machine?"

IT is going to score, but we know that. That may or may not lead to more wins. We'll see. But it sure feels like we lost something in the trade.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject:

What do y’all really expect with this PnM? We all saw IT still not back to his explosive self in Cleveland, we know he small but we all saw him in Boston being unstoppable in the 4th under pressure. At worst, we got the expiring $ FO wanted (feel better now cause they all in) and at best , this not yet 30 yr old recover 100% and we got ourselves an MVP candidate that takes pressure off the young bucks. And to top it all, this guy, like Zubac, born a Laker. Give IT a chance fellas
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject:

^^^^prefer he be like Zubac, and stay on the bench
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject:

Some of you are doubting Luke's acumen on figuring out how to hide Thomas on D... At 29 years old, wouldn't Thomas know what needs to be done as a team to best utilize him?

Maybe Luke should just ask Isaiah?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject:

or maybe... just maybe... IT doesn't know his teammates, the plays, the defense, etc.... and his teammates don't know him, his tendencies, etc.

You make it seem like the Cavs run the same plays with the same type of personnel as the Lakers.

This isn't a video game.

Everyone was putrid defensively in this game. It wasn't much better when he was out of the game.

And to get even more specific... the team was +0. Even. When IT was in there. That obviously doesn't tell the whole story. But it does say that the team wasn't outscored when he was on the floor.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject:

oaktown_dimond wrote:
Some of you are doubting Luke's acumen on figuring out how to hide Thomas on D... At 29 years old, wouldn't Thomas know what needs to be done as a team to best utilize him?

Maybe Luke should just ask Isaiah?


This!! Anyone doubting him go watch all of his post game interview from yesterday. He sounds like he is interested in our communicating and trusting each other on D. He also has a fire in him....like Kobe did which I think will be good for us as Luke is more laid back.

"That is my job: to come to this team and bring that spirit, that fire, that killer's mentality and just understand that we can take advantage of this opportunity that we have [the rest of] the season. It's about winning, and it is about winning right now."

He already sees Lopez gets down on himself sometimes and he's telling him "to keep pushing man, you're a big part of this team and we need you".

The Lakers wanted a vocal leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5mjff2at3Q
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject:

No. Some people are saying that, which is a reasonable response. Other people are acting like we just traded gold for a bag of rocks. I'm just suggesting that we take a deep breath. If we woulda won the game 131-130 this thread probably wouldn't exist.[/quote]

The active imagination of some is that we will land two All-Stars with all this cap space that was created by moving JC and Nance for an expiring contract and piss poor defender IT and a bag of Fryes. So for this trade to be a good thing, we absolutely need to land two players in thier prime who are worth Max Contracts. It is a gamble that the front office decided was worth losing two players that have both shown upsides this year. When Ball went out, I would say JC did a very solid job of helping the Lakers secure wins and his game play has improved even over last year. Nance has a higher ceiling as well but we won't know because we traded him for IT and a mid-range First rounder which we don't need. WE ABSOLUTELY don't need more draft picks because we have a solid core already and once you bring in vets (not those Max Pay players but solid vets) this team has a hell of a lot more promise than throwing two players to the Cavs which vastly improved that team because they got rid of (bleep) IT. They improved immediately. So if the Cavs look better, that also makes LeBronze happier so the chances of us getting him just went away. So the idea we get some super elite players for next season seems a bit of a pipe dream. So then we wait another year and hope....and then another and another or we waste that cap on ancient players like Carmelo or Wade hoping they have tread left. Having Cap Space doens't matter anymore, you need to have teamates that play extremely well together and you need to have something that draws elites to your team or you end up looking like the Knicks who have tried to do the EXACT same thing and look what they ended up with.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject:

kobe_luver wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
Some of you are doubting Luke's acumen on figuring out how to hide Thomas on D... At 29 years old, wouldn't Thomas know what needs to be done as a team to best utilize him?

Maybe Luke should just ask Isaiah?


This!! Anyone doubting him go watch all of his post game interview from yesterday. He sounds like he is interested in our communicating and trusting each other on D. He also has a fire in him....like Kobe did which I think will be good for us as Luke is more laid back.

"That is my job: to come to this team and bring that spirit, that fire, that killer's mentality and just understand that we can take advantage of this opportunity that we have [the rest of] the season. It's about winning, and it is about winning right now."

He already sees Lopez gets down on himself sometimes and he's telling him "to keep pushing man, you're a big part of this team and we need you".

The Lakers wanted a vocal leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5mjff2at3Q


do you own timeshares?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
^^^^prefer he be like Zubac, and stay on the bench

If u talking about the mags game, I agree, Hart would’ve been better but integrating IT/new player will include this type of growing pain. We not competing for championship so why not find out what we got, Hart not going anywhere
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject:

kobe_luver wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
Some of you are doubting Luke's acumen on figuring out how to hide Thomas on D... At 29 years old, wouldn't Thomas know what needs to be done as a team to best utilize him?

Maybe Luke should just ask Isaiah?


This!! Anyone doubting him go watch all of his post game interview from yesterday. He sounds like he is interested in our communicating and trusting each other on D. He also has a fire in him....like Kobe did which I think will be good for us as Luke is more laid back.

"That is my job: to come to this team and bring that spirit, that fire, that killer's mentality and just understand that we can take advantage of this opportunity that we have [the rest of] the season. It's about winning, and it is about winning right now."

He already sees Lopez gets down on himself sometimes and he's telling him "to keep pushing man, you're a big part of this team and we need you".

The Lakers wanted a vocal leader.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5mjff2at3Q


Man, I watched the same video and all I saw was a guy making excuses and that thing about Lopez getting down on himself sounded more like locker room cancer than it did some holy mission he decided to take upon himself. He sounds depressed, he sounds like a spoiled child who expected to have a Bronze sculpture of himself out front of Staples already. The idea that he can bring that killer spirit that Fight that blah blah blah....he festered in Cleavland and he will fester here. Give him a couple more games and that will start to pour out of him. Take away his minutes and he will throw Luke under the bus. I know what Kobe looked like after a loss and this guy looks like he took a few Xanax with a bottle of wine. Kobe would look pissed off at the world, he would only bring in the names of someone else if he felt it was needed. I guarentee you he would never have brought up Lopez getting down on himself. Some may think this is just one game but you have to look at what he did in Cav's land and you start to see a pattern. He won't fix the Lakers because the one thing that FIXED the CAV's was trading him for JC and Nance. The only way we fix the Lakers is to get him out of LA and ship him to a team that we really hate because he is a serious team bomb.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject:

Great video thank you for sharing


I really want IT to do good, I love the underdog Story. If he can come and help us make the playoffs it's a win for him and win for us
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject:

I piss and moaned about IT yesterday after the tough loss. However, with the benefit of a night's sleep and some perspective I think the trade is still a win for us no matter what happens. There are like 3 possibilities

1) Its 20 odd games. If we get Lebron, IT won't be here 100% because (a) Lebron and him don't get along and (b) there wouldn't be enough money for him anyway.

OR

2) If we don't get out max FAs, he'll be useful as a salary cap placeholder for the 2019 plan since he would do a KCP and take a one year balloon payment. He has to - since he hasn't been paid through his career - and this is really needed to showcase himself for the max contract that he admittedly earned for his play in Boston. but 'lost' due to being injured and then traded to Cleveland.

OR

3) We figure out how to best utilize his talents while hiding his deficiencies a la Boston and he fully recovers from his hip injury. And he becomes a MVP candidate for us and we got our max player through trade. Frankly watching the game yesterday, it was nice to actually see someone in the purple and gold whose shot was almost automatic.

So whatever happens, I think we come out on top. Its going to be ugly for the last 20 odd games because the team has to learn how to play together again but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
I piss and moaned about IT yesterday after the tough loss. However, with the benefit of a night's sleep and some perspective I think the trade is still a win for us no matter what happens. There are like 3 possibilities

1) Its 20 odd games. If we get Lebron, IT won't be here 100% because (a) Lebron and him don't get along and (b) there wouldn't be enough money for him anyway.

OR

2) If we don't get out max FAs, he'll be useful as a salary cap placeholder for the 2019 plan since he would do a KCP and take a one year balloon payment. He has to - since he hasn't been paid through his career - and this is really needed to showcase himself for the max contract that he admittedly earned for his play in Boston. but 'lost' due to being injured and then traded to Cleveland.

OR

3) We figure out how to best utilize his talents while hiding his deficiencies a la Boston and he fully recovers from his hip injury. And he becomes a MVP candidate for us and we got our max player through trade. Frankly watching the game yesterday, it was nice to actually see someone in the purple and gold whose shot was almost automatic.

So whatever happens, I think we come out on top. Its going to be ugly for the last 20 odd games because the team has to learn how to play together again but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.


4) we won't sign a top end FA so we are forced to resign IT so we have to deal with his ego, his poor defense and his ability to make elite players say HELL NO I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH IT" and decide to avoid the Lakers altogether. We end up losing another year, playing at a level that makes the other young talent on the team decide to leave for better teams and we look like SAC for the next 3-4 years.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject:

L4L4K3RS wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
I piss and moaned about IT yesterday after the tough loss. However, with the benefit of a night's sleep and some perspective I think the trade is still a win for us no matter what happens. There are like 3 possibilities

1) Its 20 odd games. If we get Lebron, IT won't be here 100% because (a) Lebron and him don't get along and (b) there wouldn't be enough money for him anyway.

OR

2) If we don't get out max FAs, he'll be useful as a salary cap placeholder for the 2019 plan since he would do a KCP and take a one year balloon payment. He has to - since he hasn't been paid through his career - and this is really needed to showcase himself for the max contract that he admittedly earned for his play in Boston. but 'lost' due to being injured and then traded to Cleveland.

OR

3) We figure out how to best utilize his talents while hiding his deficiencies a la Boston and he fully recovers from his hip injury. And he becomes a MVP candidate for us and we got our max player through trade. Frankly watching the game yesterday, it was nice to actually see someone in the purple and gold whose shot was almost automatic.

So whatever happens, I think we come out on top. Its going to be ugly for the last 20 odd games because the team has to learn how to play together again but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.


4) we won't sign a top end FA so we are forced to resign IT so we have to deal with his ego, his poor defense and his ability to make elite players say HELL NO I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH IT" and decide to avoid the Lakers altogether. We end up losing another year, playing at a level that makes the other young talent on the team decide to leave for better teams and we look like SAC for the next 3-4 years.


I highly doubt that. Our young core was not touched in the trade. Clarkson and Nance are nice, but they're role players and their skillsets can be replaced on the FA market. If IT doesn't work out he gives us a salary placeholder for next year, since it isn't that easy to actually get players to agree to 1 year deals. Here we get gift wrapped, a player who would almost have to accept such a deal, since its the only way IT can get paid in future.

Also it is in IT's interest to be on his best behaviour if he resigns a one year contract with us. He has never been paid, and he would surely kill any prospect of getting paid if he acts like a malcontent.

Lastly, if he does cause problems, then we just do a Deng, and sit him for the season. His primary worth would be as a 1 year salary placeholder. We have to spend the money anyways since there is a minimum team salary requirement.We then roll with our intact core and develop our players from there, getting FAs as they become available. Easy

ETA: the young talent can't really leave unless we let them. The way the salary structure is made, we can always match their first FA contract. So players like ingram ball etc, have to play for us for at least 6 years anyways if we're willing to pay market price for them.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject:

It's crazy how much better Clarkson and Nance have gotten in the last 72 hours
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
It's crazy how much better Clarkson and Nance have gotten in the last 72 hours


Helps if you're playing next to a HOF
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
It's crazy how much better Clarkson and Nance have gotten in the last 72 hours


Helps if you're playing next to a HOF


Ha I was referring more to the perception around here. They went from a run of the mill sixth man and a highly athletic albeit offensively challenged bench 4 to significant building blocks that we gave away for no apparent reason.

I'm happy for them both and I'll miss the Larry posters…but wow.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
Vanquish wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
It's crazy how much better Clarkson and Nance have gotten in the last 72 hours


Helps if you're playing next to a HOF


Ha I was referring more to the perception around here. They went from a run of the mill sixth man and a highly athletic albeit offensively challenged bench 4 to significant building blocks that we gave away for no apparent reason.

I'm happy for them both and I'll miss the Larry posters…but wow.


True, we can't win with a team of superstars, cough payton malone kobe shaq season. We need the role players who would be willing to unglamorous dirty work.

We needed guys like fisher, fox , harper, shaw , horry as much as we needed shaq and kobe during the 3 peat.

Larry and Clarkson were stand up guys who did the dirty work to help our team and we're seeing how much we actually depended on their dirty work now. Going to miss them.
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