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LakerLand247
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Joined: 26 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Sir Charles & TNT Gang Says There Are No Superstars On Our Team |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | Interesting assessment made during a recent broadcast but merits a discussion as the conclusions will be the foundation for future moves
Obviously we are talking about what our young core will be. Our young players playing with an elite team (JC and Jr) will thrive where they are the “Robins” to a “Batman.”
Note: Cavs and Celtics have proven what one strategic player can do - hence the requirement of getting two MAX Superstars is the only option
My POV
JC and Jr are great complimentary players but not superstars
Who could be our Superstar (not just an All-Star)
Randle - strong maybe
Ingram - strong possibility
Kuzma - strong possibility
Hart - strong maybe
Zubac - if so, could solve many problems
Bryant - if only he can come close to Embiid numbers, we would be set for years |
Wow.  How man rings will we win with a roster full of allstars/superstars? |
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Kirby Brian
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Joined: 31 May 2005
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Location: Chattanooga
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sir Charles & TNT Gang Says There Are No Superstars On Our Team |
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| CandyCanes wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | Interesting assessment made during a recent broadcast but merits a discussion as the conclusions will be the foundation for future moves
Obviously we are talking about what our young core will be. Our young players playing with an elite team (JC and Jr) will thrive where they are the “Robins” to a “Batman.”
Note: Cavs and Celtics have proven what one strategic player can do - hence the requirement of getting two MAX Superstars is the only option
My POV
JC and Jr are great complimentary players but not superstars
Who could be our Superstar (not just an All-Star)
Randle - strong maybe
Ingram - strong possibility
Kuzma - strong possibility
Hart - strong maybe
Zubac - if so, could solve many problems
Bryant - if only he can come close to Embiid numbers, we would be set for years |
What?! |
| LakerLand247 wrote: |
Wow. How man rings will we win with a roster full of allstars/superstars? |
not best starting 5...possibly best overall??? |
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Steve007
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Posts: 13227
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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How many superstars has the team had since Magic retired? 2? And this is from a franchise which won 5 championships during that time and made the finals 7 times.
I wish the OP would elaborate on why the team might have as many as 5 or 6 superstars. Even the Warriors only have 2. The Miami Heat with that super team didn’t have 5 superstars. |
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A Mad Chinaman
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Day wrote: | | Threatt_Level wrote: | | governator wrote: | | How many 2nd/3rd yr players are better than our 2nd/3rd (or even rookies)? |
I don't know about Lonzo, but the following are outdoing Ingram and Kuz so far: Simmons, KAT, Tatum, Mitchell, Porzingis, Booker, Brown, Murray, Turner, Sabonis, Portis, and Anunoby for starters. |
Simmons, KAT, Porzi are the only ones you can say definitely are and arguably Tatum but he's pretty one dimensional imo. The rest I would disagree with are outperforming BI. |
No doubt KAT and Porzingis are killing it, but they are also each 3rd year players. Simmons is less impressive than one might think. Also, keep in mind that both Ingram and Ball are 20 years old. I don't think Tatum will be in the same tier as Ball/Ingram when all is said and done, but included him below regardless.
2017-2018 Per 36 Min. Numbers:
KA. Towns (Age 22): 22.1 PPG (64.7 TS%), 12.0 RPG, 2.4 APG, 0.7 SPG, 1.5 BPG
K. Porzing (Age 22): 25.2 PPG (53.9 TS%), 10.1 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.2 SPG, 3.7 BPG
Simmons (Age 21): 16.9 PPG (54.2 TS%), 7.9 RPG, 7.5 APG, 1.9 SPG, 1.0 BPG
Ingram (Age 20): 17.0 PPG (52.9 TS%), 5.6 RPG, 3.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.7 BPG
Ball (Age 20): 10.8 PPG (43.6 TS%), 7.6 RPG, 7.5 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.9 NPG
Tatum (Age 19): 15.8 PPG (59.3 TS%), 6.0 RPG, 1.6 APG, 1.1 SPG, 0.9 BPG
Ironically, the only thing separating Ball and Simmons really (other than their height and positions) is shooting %. If Ball shot as well as Simmons, they'd be scoring at about the same level PPG. Give Ingram and Ball each another year or two, then lets see where they are at. The talking heads forget how young our guys are.
Oh, and here's Randle and Kuzma for good measure -
Kuzma (Age 22): 18.9 PPG (54.5 TS%), 7.2 RPG, 2.2 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.5 BPG
Randle (Age 23): 21.4 PPG (60.0 TS%), 10.9 RPG, 3.3 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.9 BPG |
Thanks for the stats
Hopefully the discussion will be centered on young players that have displayed the undeniable signs that they are SuperStars (albeit they need more experience, strengthening their bodies and proper teammates) that a team can use as a foundation for years to come.
It should be noted that Kobe needed a couple seasons before he started developing into The Black Mamba.
IMHO - only Embiid presently is the only young player (1-3 years) that is undeniable has SuperStar Talent because of his undeniable talent, even with his inability to prove (so far) to be an 82-Gamer (Isiah Thomas - the HOF - assessment) and he has a Max Contract
Other players mentioned throughout this thread are amazing athletes but haven't (yet) are there yet, The Unicorn in NYC, Davis, Greek Freak, KAT and others have shown that they need another player(s) to approach making the team they are on an elite contender.
All our remaining young core players (despite Sir Charles' views) have a chance to have the drive, passion and commitment to be great players - only time will tell since their sample size is way too small.
Randle, if he can display consistency in his effort beyond his contract year drive and display a legitimate outside shoot, can be a top player
Kuzma that fulfills his commitment to be a good to excellent defender will be amazing
Josh Hart has already shown to be a DFish-Horry hybrid, if he can be more - wow
Ingram with a stronger (not bigger) body with a continued growth to produce and adjust to how opponents are defending him can reach much higher heights
Bryant has the body and drive, how will he adapt to the grind and pressures of actual NBA games will be a telling barometer
Zubac need to develop his body and increase his foot speed OR make himself a force in the paint - ala Embiid.
IMHO - Lakers have a bright future and only 6 games behind from the 8th playoff spot (wow, glad to even mentioned the possibility of that reality!!!)
Side Bar
Cavs have recently shown what ONE key acquisition of a SuperStar can dramatically change a team's fortune. It doesn't have to be LeBron though I am unsure which FA would be a great fit. Given the NBA's current salary situation, maybe IT will comeback around 8M range (IT's presence on the court might prompt Luke to quicken the development of Bryant/Zubac to provide a rim presence to compensate for IT's defensive liabilities so that we can have his offensive magic on the other side of the court |
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Jellojigglin
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Location: Venice, California
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:55 am Post subject: |
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If you want to define a star personality you can judge that personality in three categories. This goes for any entertainment comics, chefs, actors, tabloid politicians or athletes.
Star Power
1. Popularity
2. Critical Reception by industry
3. Revenue
1. Popularity
In this category the Lakers have some of the highest records in attendance in all of sports. People are not idiots and they have favorite star players on the Laker team. People dont attend a Laker game and not know at least 1 player before or after a game. So Lakers are elite and the star players on the team in global popularity. Player fame and commercial endorsements are enormous for Laker players globally.
2. Critical Reception
Lakers are like pop music everyone has heard and critics hate it. Lakers are generally so mainstream and popular underground writers and critics hate the team. Critics get more attention attacking the storied franchise and going negative. The team has 16 championships which dwarfs the other achievements of smaller market teams hungry for attention and star attention. The Lakers are the Stars by default in the league.
3. Revenue
Lakers earnings in the NBA are elite without critical reception. Look at Laker earnings vs a market like Phoenix.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/193704/revenue-of-national-basketball-association-teams-in-2010/
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Threatt_Level
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Day wrote: | | Threatt_Level wrote: | | governator wrote: | | How many 2nd/3rd yr players are better than our 2nd/3rd (or even rookies)? |
I don't know about Lonzo, but the following are outdoing Ingram and Kuz so far: Simmons, KAT, Tatum, Mitchell, Porzingis, Booker, Brown, Murray, Turner, Sabonis, Portis, and Anunoby for starters. |
Simmons, KAT, Porzi are the only ones you can say definitely are and arguably Tatum but he's pretty one dimensional imo. The rest I would disagree with are outperforming BI. |
You're tripping if you think BI is outperforming Donovan Mitchell, Devin Booker, Myles Turner, or Jaylen Brown.
Booker, Turner, and Mitchell are all + BPM players and Jaylen Brown is almost neutral at -.2, while Ingram is -1.7 BPM. He's also got the worst TS% of the 5 of them. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo is out of the picture with a mysterious knee injury.
BI I think is nicely showing signs, but a superstar, still not sure.
Kuz I don't think is a superstar though he will be a pivotal piece of the rotation IMO.
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Big Game James
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Sir Charles & TNT Gang Says There Are No Superstars On Our Team |
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| A Mad Chinaman wrote: | Randle - strong maybe
Ingram - strong possibility
Kuzma - strong possibility
Hart - strong maybe
Zubac - if so, could solve many problems
Bryant - if only he can come close to Embiid numbers, we would be set for years |
Seriously! Lay off the kool aid!
Maybe your idea of "superstar" is different than my idea of a "superstar." I would posit that there are less than a dozen superstars in the NBA. And here you are saying that Randle, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart (and I would assume Lonzo if you had remembered to include him) all have a strong chance of becoming a superstar???
Here's my list of ALL the superstars in the NBA:
- James Harden
- Steph Curry
- Kevin Durant
- LeBron James
- Anthony Davis
- Giannis Antetokounmpo
- Russell Westbrook
Honorable mention: Kawhi Leonard
I hope we end up having ONE from our group of young players. That one superstar that has the best chance is probably Lonzo, ironically the one guy you left off your list. 
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Let's be more "objective."
Next 2-3 seasons, I don't see anyone on the current roster making the all-star/all-NBA.
Career wise, too difficult to predict.
Lonzo: possible all-star, all-NBA
BI: possible all-star
Kuz: maybe possible all-star
Hart: starter level
Jules: possible all-star
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo - possible all-star
BI - possible all-star
Koozy - solid starter
Hart - solid starter
Julius - solid starter
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| I think Kuzma and Ingram are the only ones who may have a chance at becoming superstars. |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | I think Kuzma and Ingram are the only ones who may have a chance at becoming superstars. |
If Koozy were younger, maybe.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
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I think using "superstars" or "stars" is too subjective.
using all-star (part fan vote) and all-NBA (a bit more trustworthy) is probably easier IMO.
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:15 am Post subject: |
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I would be extremely surprised if anyone on our current roster ever makes all-NBA first team and surprised at second team all-NBA
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | I would be extremely surprised if anyone on our current roster ever makes all-NBA first team and surprised at second team all-NBA |
There are 3 all-NBA teams.
Could I see Lonzo/BI in the next 10 years sneaking in? Yes.
All stars, I could see Lonzo/BI/Kuz having a chance.
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: |
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Third team would be awesome
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Threatt_Level
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | I would be extremely surprised if anyone on our current roster ever makes all-NBA first team and surprised at second team all-NBA |
Honestly, if Lonzo doesn't, at the very least, make at least 3 second team All-NBA teams, I'll be disappointed. Jason Kidd was first team 5 times and second team once. |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I mean part of what makes it so tough in Lonzo's case is that there are so many good young PGs in the league right now.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think using "superstars" or "stars" is too subjective.
using all-star (part fan vote) and all-NBA (a bit more trustworthy) is probably easier IMO. |
When someone says "superstar," I think of a player who has won an MVP or consistently falls in the top 3-5 in the MVP voting. That seems to capture the players who everyone agrees are superstars, even if they use different criteria.
By that standard, there isn't anyone on our team who is now a superstar or who can realistically say has thus far shown superstar potential, because that's a very high bar. |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Sir Charles & TNT Gang Says There Are No Superstars On Our Team |
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| Kirby Brian wrote: | | CandyCanes wrote: | | A Mad Chinaman wrote: | Interesting assessment made during a recent broadcast but merits a discussion as the conclusions will be the foundation for future moves
Obviously we are talking about what our young core will be. Our young players playing with an elite team (JC and Jr) will thrive where they are the “Robins” to a “Batman.”
Note: Cavs and Celtics have proven what one strategic player can do - hence the requirement of getting two MAX Superstars is the only option
My POV
JC and Jr are great complimentary players but not superstars
Who could be our Superstar (not just an All-Star)
Randle - strong maybe
Ingram - strong possibility
Kuzma - strong possibility
Hart - strong maybe
Zubac - if so, could solve many problems
Bryant - if only he can come close to Embiid numbers, we would be set for years |
What?! |
| LakerLand247 wrote: |
Wow. How man rings will we win with a roster full of allstars/superstars? |
not best starting 5...possibly best overall??? |
I like how he said that JR and JC who were shipped out are just comp players but all the ones we kept have good possibilites to become stars / super stars |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | I mean part of what makes it so tough in Lonzo's case is that there are so many good young PGs in the league right now. |
Lonzo can't shoot, that is the first step in becoming a descent player, nevermind superstar |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: |
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there are proably about 5 to 8 superstars in the league today, it's an exclusive club 99% of players never reach. To me you're a superstar when you have a complete game and you are able to lead your team to a championship or close to it. Anything else to me is a star. Greek Freak to me is a star, not a super star for example.
Last edited by KobeDunk on Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| KobeDunk wrote: | | PHILosophize wrote: | | I mean part of what makes it so tough in Lonzo's case is that there are so many good young PGs in the league right now. |
Lonzo can't shoot, that is the first step in becoming a descent player, nevermind superstar |
very true
and even before that let's just hope he can get back on the court sometime this decade
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | KobeDunk wrote: | | I think Kuzma and Ingram are the only ones who may have a chance at becoming superstars. |
If Koozy were younger, maybe. |
younger? He's a rookie, he's young enough. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Sir Charles & TNT Gang Says There Are No Superstars On Our Team |
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| KobeDunk wrote: |
I like how he said that JR and JC who were shipped out are just comp players but all the ones we kept have good possibilites to become stars / super stars |
It's the quintessential homer post. If we had kept Clarkson, he would have been declared to have superstar potential. If we ever trade Kuz, Ingram, etc., they would lose their superstar potential the instance they changed jerseys. |
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