Vote: Who deserves MOST of the blame for the Lakers fall from glory?
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Who deserves MOST of the blame for the Lakers fall from Champion and or Championship Contender to Lottery Team and or .500 Ball Club?
Jerry Buss
15%
 15%  [ 18 ]
Jim Buss
2%
 2%  [ 3 ]
Mitch Kupchak
32%
 32%  [ 38 ]
Phil Jackson
7%
 7%  [ 9 ]
Kobe Bryant
5%
 5%  [ 6 ]
Shaquille O'Neal
36%
 36%  [ 42 ]
Total Votes : 116

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Philostrator
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject:

Since, the Lakers traded Shaq which is a big mistake, I would say the Lakers Organization. Just look at the team we got, full of dumb rookies.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject:

Yayyyyyy blame-game!

Yayyyyyy looking backwards!

Yayyyyyy whining!

Booooooo looking forward


:roll:
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Vote: Who deserves MOST of the blame for the Lakers fall from glory?

postandpivot wrote:
you are missing the winning choice. Their isn't a person to blame. Its WINNING 3 Rings in a row with a groupd of vets. thats what you blame this losing on. If we would've had younger players that would've won those 3 rings. we would still be winning rings to this day. but since that wasn't the case. we were bound to get caught in a tight situation

Look at Chicago Bulls. a bunch of vets winning rings.



If I recall correctly, Shaq was 30 years old and Kobe was 25 years old during the finals against Detroit. If that's old, we better win now because Kobe is already 27 years old and thirty is just around the corner.

You mention the Bulls. Great example of a team that spent money to put the players Phil wanted and needed around Jordan so they could win a championship every year Jordan was playing with the Bulls, while Phil was coaching Jordan. During those 6 titles, Jordan was in his late twenty to his early thirties.

Shaq and Kobe were not to old to keep winning titles. It came down to Jerry Buss and Shaq at a stand still over money. That is the reason the Lakers broke up a dynasty duo.

People might think Jerry Buss is tight with his money and doesn't like to spend luxury tax dollars. Buss approved the trade even though the Lakers were still going to be over the salary cap figure because of Grant's contract. Buss had no idea there would be a new amnesty clause that would save him money later.

Furthermore, the Lakers are making less revenue now with this team even though Shaq was getting paid $30 million before he was traded. If Buss knew he would not be getting as many prime time games or playoff revenue, he probably would have worked out a deal with Shaq.

Jerry Buss went all in and didn't have the better hand. Even Jerry knows when his bluff didn't work like he thought it would. Shaq got the conference finals, got his new contract and got his team reloaded around him. Shaq's headed back to the conference finals if not the championship finals. Buss's team became a lottery team. Now Buss's team has an overpaid coach, a .500 ball club roster and a frustrated fan base.
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Smel Counts
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:50 pm    Post subject:

To those people who want to blame the tandem of Shat AND Kobe.
That's like blaming Hitler AND FDR for not getting along. Both had a role but it was definitely not a 50/50 thing. More like 95/5. And if Colorado hadn't happened 100/0.
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eldrunko714
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:52 pm    Post subject:

Blame Jerry Buss for letting Jerry West walk.
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Neverland Ranch Survivor
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject:

I voted for Buss, I believe of West was still here, none of this crap ever happens. He decided to let him go and instead got a no personality having, untalented, not well respected by players general manager like kupchak who has no involvement with the players like west had.
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K8KillerInstinct
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject:

Lionel The Laker wrote:
Who voted for Kobe?


B-Scott of course
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venicebeach
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:29 am    Post subject:

Lakers organization
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K8KillerInstinct
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:36 am    Post subject:

I would definately say Buss for BREAKING A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM, but Mitch for making us look like (bleep)!!!

I understand that the dynamic duo was broken up (1st mistake), but we could still be a legit 2nd round playoff team. Damn Mitch.

Fire Mitch or else we will be worse than (bleep) pretty soon.
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AreaZeroOne
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject:

Laker_in_Tulsa wrote:
This is stupid. Every team falls from glory. There is no one to blame.

When a team loses one of the greatest players of all time, (Shaq) you can't expect the team to stay on top.

Get it through your heads. We didn't fall from glory because of team mistakes. We fell from glory because our team was old.

We are rebuilding. Get over it. Making quick fixes to make us a 5 seed instead of a 8 seed and ruining our chances of our solid future is stupid.
That's what stupid GM do. They just make quick fixes, and don't have the patience for the real deal.

Now I'm sure if something comes along that could really put us over the top, Mitch will do it. But those chances are slim that something will come up. But until then, lets be happy that we have a GM that has the balls to make a plan and stick to it.


Holy crap sir. You just made more sense than 98% of the topics started and replies on this board. I completely share your view on this.
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junebug
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject:

eldrunko714 wrote:
Blame Jerry Buss for letting Jerry West walk.

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Smel Counts
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject:

Read Lazenby. Phil is why West is gone.
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KA_2
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:30 am    Post subject:

Smel Counts wrote:
Read Lazenby. Phil is why West is gone.


I've read Lazenby and believe him to be credible, but my only problem with his claims about this is the lack of coorboration from anybody else. Additionally, I can't see why Buss would pick Phil over West unless he had a brainfart, which unfortunately may have indeed happened.

Anyway, Jerry Buss gets the blame obviously, he runs the Lakers organization and is therefore ultimately responsible for its performance. More specificially, blame the General Manager he hired; Kupchak.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:30 am    Post subject:

iml84myd8s wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
First, no argument with the order of your assessed blame. But second, just who did you envision playing with Shaq & Kobe. They proved in that final season that they still needed adequate role players. They could not get it done with Malone, Payton, and D Fish. Some argument can be made that Malone would have given it a shot at another season, but just that - one season. Giving Shaq that money means there was no way they could pickup any other player of consequence and this was just right after they proved they could not do it with a HOF roster.

I definitely agree that they would be a better team right now with with Shaq still around, but not contenders. Since 2003, we could see the cupboard getting bare and as soon as it came time to resign players they would lose them one by one and not be able to reload with any decent talent. So the 2005/2006 record would be better with Shaq, but the playoff outlook would be much the same. It's going to be extrememly surprising if Miami can come anywhere close to challenging Detroit in the eastern conference finals this season, and the coming seasons only sees' them getting farther away from the mark. This is the same situation that would have faced the Lakers, only with the added fact that Phil was done coaching Shaq and Kobe together, and Kobe would have been challenging for a championship in a Clipper uniform....


I don't want to get off the subject at hand. However, as long as the NBA has a soft salary cap, there are always players that the Lakers can add. The Lakers and Knicks make enough money they can afford to pay the luxury taxes and still made a fortune. Let's not forget the Lakers franchise is worth more than $500 million and they make money every year.

If the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe, they would not have any problems attracting free agents and they could afford to pay the luxury taxes to get those players. This applies with the current roster. If the Lakers wanted to put better players around Kobe so he can compete for championships and not just the 8th seed of the playoffs, the Lakers could add those players and pay the luxury taxes.

If a small market like the Pacers can do it, the f'n Lakers definitely can do it!


What isolated locality have you been living at? Do such names as Charles Oakley, and Kendall Gill (and I know there's a few others) ring a bell? During Shaq and Kobe's heyday many free agents choose the $$ over the Lakers. Your emphasis should be on SALARY CAP, and not SOFT salary cap.
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lakerfanNC
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject:

management...They are responsible... They should have done everything in their power to keep Jerry West.
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:44 am    Post subject:

eldrunko714 wrote:
Blame Jerry Buss for letting Jerry West walk.


Actually, you have a point. That was the first domino to fall. However, forced out might be more accurate than letting JW walk. If JB would have let JW do his job...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:05 am    Post subject:

Shaq, actually, because if he hadn't been such a jerk to kobe and hadn't had such a poor work ethic, we would have had 6+ straight championships, and Kobe would have wanted to keep playing with him, and the thought of trading him would never have entered any of their minds...
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:52 am    Post subject:

We should stop thinking of who to blame for this and start figuring out how to fix it, oh wait, sorry we don't own the team....
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:59 am    Post subject:

If Snaq was a true leader, he would have been a vocal leader and a leader by example by getting in shape, practicing his free throws, and deferring to Kobe more (the way he does to D-Wade). In fact if he was more conditioned the Lakers might have had a better shot against Duncan and David Robinson in that 02-03' championship.
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Mike@LG
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject:

It's all of their faults. Each one of their positions could've been a stop-gap to the bleeding.

At least Kupchak was trying with the trade for Horace Grant and the whole GP/Malone deal.

Jerry Buss elected to not pick up certain players or just waive certain players because of luxury tax.

Phil Jackson wasn't flexible in making both Bryant and Shaq stay on the same page.

We all know what Shaq did.

We all know what Bryant did.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:23 pm    Post subject:

Blame the CBA first of all. If Stern hadn't wanted to punish the Lakers and Wolves for giving Shaq and KG big contracts, the Lakers would have had more flexibility.

Then, you have to blame time and the circle of life.

Lastly, I would like to blame myself.
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