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pjiddy
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 Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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No PG/LeBron at least has a terrific Plan B in being able to bring back Randle and having the spending power to either a) chase a couple RFAs (highly doubtful the Lakers do this) b) scoop up some UFAs at bargain prices (Hezonja, Barton) and/or C) rent their cap space out for additional assets. Striking out means another full year of seeing what we have in these guys. I'm not confident we'd keep all of them if LBJ/PG are on the roster.
If PG comes here solo, that's terrific, but I think unlikely. So...I guess I actually consider striking out a best case scenario? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| RhodyRay wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that  And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." That is the Laker way. Sometime it works (Shaq, Kobe) sometimes it doesn't (Nash). The Lakers should NEVER stop trying to go all in. I don't care if the Lakers don't get any FAs this summer as long as I know they are TRYING.
The Lakers could have kept all our players Nance, Clarkson, DLo (and be still stuck with Moz), but what does all that get us now or down the road? Back in the day the Lakers had some pretty good players but they had to move them to get guys like Shaq and Kobe. It was a lot easier then than today-but the concept was still the same, don't be afraid to go all in. The Lakers gambled than and they have been gambling ever since....16 banners and counting. |
The difference was that Shaq was coming, we just needed to outbid Orlando. Now, there is no calvary in February. The plan is a hope and a prayer. |
Not exactly. It was NOT a given that Shaq was coming. The Lakers had to move players just to be in the game to sign Shaq--just like they are doing now. They are shedding players' contracts in order to be in the game to sign a FA or two. Perhaps 2 this year or none. Or 1 this year and one next. Or 2 next year or none. They have options.
Almost NOTHING is guaranteed. It wasn't then and it is not now. One thing that is guaranteed--if you don't get in the game-you don't get to play!
There is never any hope without a vision. The plan is ALWAYS hope and prayer.
That is the LAKER way! |
We moved those players when we were negotiating with Shaq, not a year or half year earlier.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | No PG/LeBron at least has a terrific Plan B in being able to bring back Randle and having the spending power to either a) chase a couple RFAs (highly doubtful the Lakers do this) b) scoop up some UFAs at bargain prices (Hezonja, Barton) and/or C) rent their cap space out for additional assets. Striking out means another full year of seeing what we have in these guys. I'm not confident we'd keep all of them if LBJ/PG are on the roster.
If PG comes here solo, that's terrific, but I think unlikely. So...I guess I actually consider striking out a best case scenario? |
That is a solid plan B. People forget that we never could have traded for Pau if we hadn’t paid Kwame.
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golakersgo121
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | No PG/LeBron at least has a terrific Plan B in being able to bring back Randle and having the spending power to either a) chase a couple RFAs (highly doubtful the Lakers do this) b) scoop up some UFAs at bargain prices (Hezonja, Barton) and/or C) rent their cap space out for additional assets. Striking out means another full year of seeing what we have in these guys. I'm not confident we'd keep all of them if LBJ/PG are on the roster.
If PG comes here solo, that's terrific, but I think unlikely. So...I guess I actually consider striking out a best case scenario? |
That is a solid plan B. People forget that we never could have traded for Pau if we hadn’t paid Kwame. |
Likewise - some other people forget that we have not paid Kwame max years (at the time of signing) and have paid him what accounted for about 45%-50% of the max $$$, right?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly don’t remember
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Wino
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Joined: 07 Jun 2002
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Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." That is the Laker way. Sometime it works (Shaq, Kobe) sometimes it doesn't (Nash). The Lakers should NEVER stop trying to go all in. I don't care if the Lakers don't get any FAs this summer as long as I know they are TRYING.
The Lakers could have kept all our players Nance, Clarkson, DLo (and be still stuck with Moz), but what does all that get us now or down the road? Back in the day the Lakers had some pretty good players but they had to move them to get guys like Shaq and Kobe. It was a lot easier then than today-but the concept was still the same, don't be afraid to go all in. The Lakers gambled than and they have been gambling ever since....16 banners and counting. |
Yep, if you read about Jerry West, he wrote that it drove him pretty crazy when recruiting Shaq. He had to gut our team first with the hope that Shaq would sign here. There were no guarantees. You do your best to put yourself in position to get the team you want. Swing for the fences, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But I can tell you one thing, if you don't take the risk, you will never win. Period.
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Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain |
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Stumpy25
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Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Wino wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." That is the Laker way. Sometime it works (Shaq, Kobe) sometimes it doesn't (Nash). The Lakers should NEVER stop trying to go all in. I don't care if the Lakers don't get any FAs this summer as long as I know they are TRYING.
The Lakers could have kept all our players Nance, Clarkson, DLo (and be still stuck with Moz), but what does all that get us now or down the road? Back in the day the Lakers had some pretty good players but they had to move them to get guys like Shaq and Kobe. It was a lot easier then than today-but the concept was still the same, don't be afraid to go all in. The Lakers gambled than and they have been gambling ever since....16 banners and counting. |
Yep, if you read about Jerry West, he wrote that it drove him pretty crazy when recruiting Shaq. He had to gut our team first with the hope that Shaq would sign here. There were no guarantees. You do your best to put yourself in position to get the team you want. Swing for the fences, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But I can tell you one thing, if you don't take the risk, you will never win. Period. |
Different era and it was Jerry West who had a great reputation of building championship teams. Now it's Magic who really is work in progress as far as executive manager, but I guess you have to give it your best shot. Personally I don't believe LeBron nor PG13 will come but I hope I'm totally wrong. |
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CHAMP24
Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Feb 2015
Posts: 329
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." That is the Laker way. Sometime it works (Shaq, Kobe) sometimes it doesn't (Nash). The Lakers should NEVER stop trying to go all in. I don't care if the Lakers don't get any FAs this summer as long as I know they are TRYING.
The Lakers could have kept all our players Nance, Clarkson, DLo (and be still stuck with Moz), but what does all that get us now or down the road? Back in the day the Lakers had some pretty good players but they had to move them to get guys like Shaq and Kobe. It was a lot easier then than today-but the concept was still the same, don't be afraid to go all in. The Lakers gambled than and they have been gambling ever since....16 banners and counting. |
Yep, if you read about Jerry West, he wrote that it drove him pretty crazy when recruiting Shaq. He had to gut our team first with the hope that Shaq would sign here. There were no guarantees. You do your best to put yourself in position to get the team you want. Swing for the fences, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But I can tell you one thing, if you don't take the risk, you will never win. Period. |
Different era and it was Jerry West who had a great reputation of building championship teams. Now it's Magic who really is work in progress as far as executive manager, but I guess you have to give it your best shot. Personally I don't believe LeBron nor PG13 will come but I hope I'm totally wrong. |
If they don't, (bleep) the both of them |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Stumpy25 wrote: | | Wino wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." That is the Laker way. Sometime it works (Shaq, Kobe) sometimes it doesn't (Nash). The Lakers should NEVER stop trying to go all in. I don't care if the Lakers don't get any FAs this summer as long as I know they are TRYING.
The Lakers could have kept all our players Nance, Clarkson, DLo (and be still stuck with Moz), but what does all that get us now or down the road? Back in the day the Lakers had some pretty good players but they had to move them to get guys like Shaq and Kobe. It was a lot easier then than today-but the concept was still the same, don't be afraid to go all in. The Lakers gambled than and they have been gambling ever since....16 banners and counting. |
Yep, if you read about Jerry West, he wrote that it drove him pretty crazy when recruiting Shaq. He had to gut our team first with the hope that Shaq would sign here. There were no guarantees. You do your best to put yourself in position to get the team you want. Swing for the fences, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But I can tell you one thing, if you don't take the risk, you will never win. Period. |
Different era and it was Jerry West who had a great reputation of building championship teams. Now it's Magic who really is work in progress as far as executive manager, but I guess you have to give it your best shot. Personally I don't believe LeBron nor PG13 will come but I hope I'm totally wrong. |
Plus Shaq was a FA who was in talks to come here. We didn’t begin to liquidate players in 1994-1995.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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RhodyRay
Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 5470
Location: A room with a view!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." |
Then you either don't know how Jerry Buss or Jerry West built teams or... you are just remembering a romanticized version.
The "swing for the fences" of 96 doesn't happen if we hadn't built and developed a young consistent playoff team over the 92-95 seasons.
Again, this 'romanticized version' of events is what's hurting the Lakers.
Some fans just don't understand that the Lakers had to build something that was not going to win a championship BUT was going to make them a consistent playoff team, and then when they were a consistent playoff team they were able to become players in free agency and that is why they even got the attention of Shaq.
THIS generation of Lakers fans seem to believe that the Lakers team was just a 30 win team going nowhere and then just magically landed Shaq in free agency and then it was off to the races!!
No, it wasn't that simple.
Understand we don't get Shaq if we didn't build a playoff team from 92-95 that was a consistent playoff team that peaked at the 2nd round. But it was because of building that team that we got the attention of Shaq.
This whole "LAKERS DON'T HAVE TO BUILD A TEAM THE RIGHT WAY!! ITS CHAMPIONSHIP OR BUST EVERY YEAR AND THEY HAVE TO SWING FOR THE FENCES FOR A QUICK TURNAROUND!"
is such bull[expletive] that never happened.
Believe it or not, there's a process to these things, and some Lakers fans just wanna rush to the Championship roster without trying to even realistically grasp that the Lakers have to build something first and it isn't gonna happen in a single off-season, or even two potentially.
But if the Lakers don't have that consistency, then they're building towards nowhere, and "well next off-season we'll get a max.." will just become another drug to tide them over while they have another failing season and continue to lose young assets for the sake of "cap space".
It's sad to see the franchise heading in that direction. It's even more sad to see fans after 5 off-seasons of failure still buy into that garbage of "SWING FOR THE FENCES!! IT'S THE LAKERS WAY!! NO POINT IN BUILDING A CONSISTENT TEAM IF IT CAN'T CONTEND FOR TITLES RIGHT THEN!!"
| RhodyRay wrote: | =
Not exactly. It was NOT a given that Shaq was coming. The Lakers had to move players just to be in the game to sign Shaq--just like they are doing now. They are shedding players' contracts in order to be in the game to sign a FA or two. Perhaps 2 this year or none. Or 1 this year and one next. Or 2 next year or none. They have options.
Almost NOTHING is guaranteed. It wasn't then and it is not now. One thing that is guaranteed--if you don't get in the game-you don't get to play!
There is never any hope without a vision. The plan is ALWAYS hope and prayer.
That is the LAKER way! |
And this is what I'm talking about. You are remembering it in a romanticized way.
Why do you think the Lakers even got Shaq's attention?
It's because they'd built a team that could consistently make the playoffs.
The team they had the previous year was just 4 wins removed from the same record as the Magic.
They'd established themselves as a consistent playoff team.
Those things are all a factor.
Yes the NVE and Eddie Jones Lakers weren't ever going to contend for a title, but it's because of that team and the success they DID have, that Shaq paid attention to them.
If you want to REALISTICALLY try to use Shaq as a comparison to a Paul George or LeBron James.
That would have to entail the Lakers making the playoffs for two seasons in a row and/or being within 4-5 wins of Cleveland or OKC.
If those things don't happen, you can't use Shaq as a comparison. Because his situation was based upon as much our winning and where we were headed as anything else.
If you think Shaq would have come here if the Lakers had missed the playoffs for 5 seasons in a row and had only mustered around 30ish wins that previous season, then I've got some bad news.
I also find it interesting how if one tries to create a roster for the Lakers going forward as a consistent playoff team, even with no superstar, that some fans get so wrapped up in the contracts and have a "Well if we do that we'll be stuck that way forever! We can't do that it's not the Lakers way! We'll never contend with that lineup!!"
But they always reach for Shaq and want to bring up how we shed salary in order to make the room to sign him.
But make a roster that's maybe 3-4M off signing a max in the off-season and those same fans lose their minds on it.
To each their own. But I'd personally rather build a team that can consistently make the playoffs for a couple of years as the youngsters continue to grow and then when they can keep making the playoffs THEN assume that we'll be a player in free agency and wait for a commitment from a max player and then shed salary as necessary. Because if the team is making the playoffs they have enough players playing at a high level, both young and veteran that they'd have enough value to shed some salary if necessary to make room for a max free agent that had ALREADY committed.
But you know.. that's just how Jerry would do it. And if social media was like it is now and some Lakers fans had the mentality they had now, they'd be bashing West, calling us a middle of the pack playoff team, and lambasting him for not creating a Championship roster 3 years after Magic's retirement going into the 95-96 off-season. |
No romancing of reality at all nor am I new generation Laker fan. My days of being a Laker fan go back to when West and Wilt roamed the court.
No disagreement that it does take time to build a team. I am not a fan that thinks you can build a team overnight. In fact I realize the Lakers may not be a championship caliber team for another 4-5 years. No problem there.
My point of the post is that the Lakers have ALWAYS swung for the fences. The same was true when the Lakers got Shaq. The Magic low-balled Shaq and that left the door open for West to steal him away. The Lakers got Shaq's attention because of the disrespect from Orlando's management and their dumb fans! Shaq wanted to be paid more than Alonzo Mourning's $100+ million contract and the Lakers stepped up to the plate. The Knicks, Pistons, Heat and Hawks were all in the Shaq sweepstakes at the time.
In 96 the Lakers sent out Vlade to obtain Kobe which added an extra 3.3 million in cap space to get Shaq. The Lakers risked their entire summer plans trying to position themselves to get Shaq. Guys like Jordan, Mourning, Mutombo, Reggie Miller, Payton, Rodman, and Dale Davis were all available. Dale Davis was the backup plan to Shaq but he couldn't wait on the Lakers and ended signing with the Pacers. I remember being at Kobe's first summer league game. It was the same day Davis signed with the Pacers. I talked with West that day and he showed NO concern whatsoever that his backup plan went up in smoke. He was confident Shaq was coming-no question! IF this strategy is NOT swinging for the fences, I don't know what is. In one summer the Lakers were able to trade away their starting center to get Kobe and later move other players to obtain enough cap space to sign Shaq.
West sold Shaq on the Laker brand, their history with dominate big men, their winning tradition and the quality of young players that would be around Shaq like Jones, Van Exel, Bryant, Ceballos. Sort of what the Lakers are trying to sell to today's FAs with young players like Ingram, Hart, Kuz, Randle, Ball, and Zubac.
Do the Lakers have to make the playoffs to lure a FA? Maybe, maybe not. It remains to be seen. The Lakers whole rebuild got KILLED when Stern killed the Chris Paul deal. We would have gotten Paul and Howard to team with Kobe and created another potential championship team. We certainly wouldn't have lost Howard for nothing if we also had Paul on deck. But I digress.
I believe in the "make haste slowly" philosophy. I hope the Lakers can add a PG13 to the mix this year and perhaps another FA next year. Or perhaps Boogie depending on how he is recovering. I don't want LeBron on this team. I like that the Lakers are always trying. I was all-in for the Nash trade-but it didn't work out. I can't blame the Lakers for trying. No apologies there. The Lakers might not get any FAs and I am still OK with the trades they made to at least be in the mix to get these players.
The Lakers went 12 years without winning a ring (from1989 until 2000) but then won 3 in a row and dominated for another 10 years. I am looking for the same thing to hopefully happen to them within the next 4-5 years. If it takes getting PG13 and Boogie to do that--it works for me! If we don't get any--I can wait. As long as the Lakers are trying-I am buying.
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RhodyRay
Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 5470
Location: A room with a view!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | MJST wrote: | Considering all the moves the Lakers have made which is basically banking on landing a max free agent this off-season, there's no backtracking off the original statement.
Considering all the moves the Lakers have made, and uneccesary moves they've made for sake of "Cap space" and getting "two max contracts"..
if the Lakers don't get a max contract guy this off-season(that means LeBron, George, Cousins)
Then the off-season is a failure and it's a bad start for the new FO.
If they willingly ignored the last 5 off-seasons where the same plan didn't work, and fired the previous FO when THEY realized that they had to go away from that plan and then they went back to it when the new FO was brought in..
Then IF THEY FAIL this off-season, if they whiff on free agency. Then the off-season is a failure and a lot of the seasonal decisions they made were for naught. And the FO deserves all the criticism it can handle for it.
Everyone that defended this FO kept saying "wait and see... Magic wouldn't do this unless he was sure! If the Lakers don't sign a max free agent then I'll agree it was a failure, but let's wait and see" had better be sticking to that And not backtracking off it now that it's becoming more and more apparent that it's less and less likely. |
And Plan B is?
If Jerry Buss was alive today he would do exactly what the Lakers are trying to do now..swing for the fences! The Lakers NEVER play it safe, they are always "ALL IN." That is the Laker way. Sometime it works (Shaq, Kobe) sometimes it doesn't (Nash). The Lakers should NEVER stop trying to go all in. I don't care if the Lakers don't get any FAs this summer as long as I know they are TRYING.
The Lakers could have kept all our players Nance, Clarkson, DLo (and be still stuck with Moz), but what does all that get us now or down the road? Back in the day the Lakers had some pretty good players but they had to move them to get guys like Shaq and Kobe. It was a lot easier then than today-but the concept was still the same, don't be afraid to go all in. The Lakers gambled than and they have been gambling ever since....16 banners and counting. |
The difference was that Shaq was coming, we just needed to outbid Orlando. Now, there is no calvary in February. The plan is a hope and a prayer. |
Not exactly. It was NOT a given that Shaq was coming. The Lakers had to move players just to be in the game to sign Shaq--just like they are doing now. They are shedding players' contracts in order to be in the game to sign a FA or two. Perhaps 2 this year or none. Or 1 this year and one next. Or 2 next year or none. They have options.
Almost NOTHING is guaranteed. It wasn't then and it is not now. One thing that is guaranteed--if you don't get in the game-you don't get to play!
There is never any hope without a vision. The plan is ALWAYS hope and prayer.
That is the LAKER way! |
We moved those players when we were negotiating with Shaq, not a year or half year earlier. |
VLF you are right, that was then this is now. Different times, different strategies but the overall philosophy remains the same--get in the game in order to swing for the fences to hit a home-run!
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Let them HATE so long as they FEAR! |
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laker50
Star Player
Joined: 07 Mar 2014
Posts: 2140
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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It seems like the Lakers are always running to second base without touching first base first.
Don't know why they are giving up valuable assets for cap space.
And not even having a playoff team but one of the WORSE teams
in the NBA and expect FAs to flock to LA.
You would think the first step is to build a playoff team with a big future. But giving up DLO, Nance, and Clarkson for cap space and a draft pick is not building up a base.
This has happened before with the previous FO, let they not be mentioned. But they did not get Melo, Aldridge, Howard, or not one of the FAs to even consider the Lakers. And this is with Kobe on board. Now they have not even Kobe, and they want to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Why would a superstar FA who is on a winning team in the playoffs and close to the finals want to come to a team in the cellar? And not even able to make the playoffs?
It is hard to pull out of the cellar and this would have been another great tank year except the pick goes to the Celtics.
The question would have for Magic and Pelinski is what is it
that would make a prime FA on a winning team come to a team that is a cellar dweller for past years?
Before trading Clarkson and Nance they had a winning trend.
Now it is reversed all for cap space again.
It seems like Magic and Pelinski are making the same mistakes as the previous FO and looking for fools gold. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Good post above RR. West did have a backup plan and I would guess this FO does as well.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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sonic the laker
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013
Posts: 2071
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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If free agents don't choose to sign in L.A., for the Lakers, then that's their prerogative. No one ever said the Lakers were entitled to superstars, more than anyone else. Just brace up, roll with the young squad, and go with the slow build.
In the words of Goodie Mob, "one monkey don't stop no show".
ZOOM!!!!!!!! |
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RhodyRay
Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 5470
Location: A room with a view!
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| laker50 wrote: | It seems like the Lakers are always running to second base without touching first base first.
Don't know why they are giving up valuable assets for cap space.
And not even having a playoff team but one of the WORSE teams
in the NBA and expect FAs to flock to LA.
You would think the first step is to build a playoff team with a big future. But giving up DLO, Nance, and Clarkson for cap space and a draft pick is not building up a base.
This has happened before with the previous FO, let they not be mentioned. But they did not get Melo, Aldridge, Howard, or not one of the FAs to even consider the Lakers. And this is with Kobe on board. Now they have not even Kobe, and they want to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Why would a superstar FA who is on a winning team in the playoffs and close to the finals want to come to a team in the cellar? And not even able to make the playoffs?
It is hard to pull out of the cellar and this would have been another great tank year except the pick goes to the Celtics.
The question would have for Magic and Pelinski is what is it
that would make a prime FA on a winning team come to a team that is a cellar dweller for past years?
Before trading Clarkson and Nance they had a winning trend.
Now it is reversed all for cap space again.
It seems like Magic and Pelinski are making the same mistakes as the previous FO and looking for fools gold. |
A FA must ask the right question. The right question is: how far away are the Lakers from making the playoffs and doing some damage? I think the Lakers can go places if they added a PG13 and Boogie (a healthy one) to a lineup of Ball, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, Hart, Zubac, and a 2018 1st round draft pick. It would probably take them 2-3 years but it is conceivable.
PG13 is going nowhere with OKC. They are not getting around GS and have no money to add anyone of significance. The Pelicans are going absolutely nowhere with Davis and Boogie. That experiment can't end soon enough. It is conceivable that both PG13 and Boogie would leave their respective teams. Or one this year and Klay Thompson next year. A team of Ball, DLo, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, Hart, Zubac and other young players could do some damage in 2-3 years as well but what team would you rather have:
Ball
Ingram
PG13
Kuz
Boogie
Hart
Zubac
Randle?
1st Round pick
or
Ball
DLo
Ingram
Kuz
Hart
Randle
Nance
Clarkson
Zubac
Moz
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Let them HATE so long as they FEAR! |
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Arbitrary
Star Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 5788
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| RhodyRay wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | It seems like the Lakers are always running to second base without touching first base first.
Don't know why they are giving up valuable assets for cap space.
And not even having a playoff team but one of the WORSE teams
in the NBA and expect FAs to flock to LA.
You would think the first step is to build a playoff team with a big future. But giving up DLO, Nance, and Clarkson for cap space and a draft pick is not building up a base.
This has happened before with the previous FO, let they not be mentioned. But they did not get Melo, Aldridge, Howard, or not one of the FAs to even consider the Lakers. And this is with Kobe on board. Now they have not even Kobe, and they want to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Why would a superstar FA who is on a winning team in the playoffs and close to the finals want to come to a team in the cellar? And not even able to make the playoffs?
It is hard to pull out of the cellar and this would have been another great tank year except the pick goes to the Celtics.
The question would have for Magic and Pelinski is what is it
that would make a prime FA on a winning team come to a team that is a cellar dweller for past years?
Before trading Clarkson and Nance they had a winning trend.
Now it is reversed all for cap space again.
It seems like Magic and Pelinski are making the same mistakes as the previous FO and looking for fools gold. |
A FA must ask the right question. The right question is: how far away are the Lakers from making the playoffs and doing some damage? I think the Lakers can go places if they added a PG13 and Boogie (a healthy one) to a lineup of Ball, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, Hart, Zubac, and a 2018 1st round draft pick. It would probably take them 2-3 years but it is conceivable.
PG13 is going nowhere with OKC. They are not getting around GS and have no money to add anyone of significance. The Pelicans are going absolutely nowhere with Davis and Boogie. That experiment can't end soon enough. It is conceivable that both PG13 and Boogie would leave their respective teams. Or one this year and Klay Thompson next year. A team of Ball, DLo, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, Hart, Zubac and other young players could do some damage in 2-3 years as well but what team would you rather have:
Ball
Ingram
PG13
Kuz
Boogie
Hart
Zubac
Randle?
1st Round pick
or
Ball
DLo
Ingram
Kuz
Hart
Randle
Nance
Clarkson
Zubac
Moz |
Just a minor point, I don't think we get Hart if we kept Ball. He won't go as low as where we picked Thomas Bryant. Kuzma, I am leaning to the possibility that he'll be there after the Nets' pick.
As with Cousins, he's 27(?) right now, and he will be coming off an achilles heel injury. How much faith do we give him to get back to his star/superstar form? I really wish he didn't get that injury. |
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LAkers 4 Life
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Good post above RR. West did have a backup plan and I would guess this FO does as well. |
We don't know what the backup plans are, which is a good thing because they shouldn't be stupid enough to just let everyone know what all of their plans were. The Lakers in 1996 had several backup plans just in case, ranging from Bison Dele, Dennis Rodman, Dale Davis and Reggie Miller. They were all huge drop-offs, but at least they were ready just in case it backfired. But like then, the front office now has to show they can close the deal on a superstar player. Not just for wins and losses, but as a message to the rest of the league that the Lakers they knew are back. |
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unleasHell
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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Cousins needs to be wiped off the Lakers potential targets list, unless it is just a one year contract, not sure if anyone posted the following, but here goes:
These Quotes are copied from "The Ringer":
"A 2013 research paper published in The American Journal of Sports Medicine found that of 18 NBA players who ruptured their Achilles over 23 seasons, only eight returned to play for longer than one season. A player of Cousins’s caliber is naturally likely to return to the court, but those that do make it back onto the court have mixed results. Players like Elton Brand and Wes Matthews were never the same after returning. Isiah Thomas suffered a ruptured Achilles at age 32, then retired. Dominique Wilkins also had the same injury at age 32, then played until he was 39 and was named to two more All-NBA teams."
"Interestingly, the study found that 29 years old was the average age a player ruptured their Achilles. Cousins is 27. Nonetheless, the study found that 17 of the 18 players saw their minutes decrease after returning. While the sample size for football is small, NFL players have seen a similar decline in both opportunity and production."
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“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Last edited by unleasHell on Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RhodyRay
Star Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 5470
Location: A room with a view!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Arbitrary wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | laker50 wrote: | It seems like the Lakers are always running to second base without touching first base first.
Don't know why they are giving up valuable assets for cap space.
And not even having a playoff team but one of the WORSE teams
in the NBA and expect FAs to flock to LA.
You would think the first step is to build a playoff team with a big future. But giving up DLO, Nance, and Clarkson for cap space and a draft pick is not building up a base.
This has happened before with the previous FO, let they not be mentioned. But they did not get Melo, Aldridge, Howard, or not one of the FAs to even consider the Lakers. And this is with Kobe on board. Now they have not even Kobe, and they want to do it with smoke and mirrors.
Why would a superstar FA who is on a winning team in the playoffs and close to the finals want to come to a team in the cellar? And not even able to make the playoffs?
It is hard to pull out of the cellar and this would have been another great tank year except the pick goes to the Celtics.
The question would have for Magic and Pelinski is what is it
that would make a prime FA on a winning team come to a team that is a cellar dweller for past years?
Before trading Clarkson and Nance they had a winning trend.
Now it is reversed all for cap space again.
It seems like Magic and Pelinski are making the same mistakes as the previous FO and looking for fools gold. |
A FA must ask the right question. The right question is: how far away are the Lakers from making the playoffs and doing some damage? I think the Lakers can go places if they added a PG13 and Boogie (a healthy one) to a lineup of Ball, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, Hart, Zubac, and a 2018 1st round draft pick. It would probably take them 2-3 years but it is conceivable.
PG13 is going nowhere with OKC. They are not getting around GS and have no money to add anyone of significance. The Pelicans are going absolutely nowhere with Davis and Boogie. That experiment can't end soon enough. It is conceivable that both PG13 and Boogie would leave their respective teams. Or one this year and Klay Thompson next year. A team of Ball, DLo, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, Hart, Zubac and other young players could do some damage in 2-3 years as well but what team would you rather have:
Ball
Ingram
PG13
Kuz
Boogie
Hart
Zubac
Randle?
1st Round pick
or
Ball
DLo
Ingram
Kuz
Hart
Randle
Nance
Clarkson
Zubac
Moz |
Just a minor point, I don't think we get Hart if we kept Ball. He won't go as low as where we picked Thomas Bryant. Kuzma, I am leaning to the possibility that he'll be there after the Nets' pick.
As with Cousins, he's 27(?) right now, and he will be coming off an achilles heel injury. How much faith do we give him to get back to his star/superstar form? I really wish he didn't get that injury. |
Lakers could give him a one-year deal? If he is fully healthy sign him long term. I don't know if this is possible but if it is-it might happen that way.
_________________
Let them HATE so long as they FEAR! |
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Threatt_Level
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| giordan0 wrote: | The inevitable pitchforks will be aimed at the FO.
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And they would deserve it. We could've traded our players to get a PG or a Jimmy Butler, and if nobody signs with us, then we traded them for nothing. |
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Arbitrary
Star Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 5788
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | Cousins needs to be wiped off the Lakers potential targets list, unless it is just a one year contract, not sure if anyone posted the following, but here goes:
These Quotes are copied from "The Ringer":
"A 2013 research paper published in The American Journal of Sports Medicine found that of 18 NBA players who ruptured their Achilles over 23 seasons, only eight returned to play for longer than one season. A player of Cousins’s caliber is naturally likely to return to the court, but those that do make it back onto the court have mixed results. Players like Elton Brand and Wes Matthews were never the same after returning. Isiah Thomas suffered a ruptured Achilles at age 32, then retired. Dominique Wilkins also had the same injury at age 32, then played until he was 39 and was named to two more All-NBA teams."
"Interestingly, the study found that 29 years old was the average age a player ruptured their Achilles. Cousins is 27. Nonetheless, the study found that 17 of the 18 players saw their minutes decrease after returning. While the sample size for football is small, NFL players have seen a similar decline in both opportunity and production." |
This has been my concern with Cousins. I don't know if he agrees to a one year deal. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Cousins will likely get a better offer from the Pelicans
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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€H£M£$TR¥
Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017
Posts: 3782
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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What if LeBron gets injured in the playoffs? Do we then sign and trade JR and the Cavs pick to the Spurs for a rental on Kawhi and max out PG?
The point is, anything can happen. We just have to have the means to adapt.
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DEAR BASKETBALL |
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wickedgenes
Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jun 2002
Posts: 46
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| going to be fun this summer watching it unfold. |
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Shaber
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
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| Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| dubaholic1 wrote: | | I would be extremely happy if Lebron doesn't come. He is not a Laker. He's an opportunist. |
Amen to that.
_________________
.
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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