Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^The whole thread is predicated on a modern NBA player (Joel Embiid) being surprised by Wilt's level of athleticism.
Shrug.
Wilt was the best athlete of his era. He'd be a great athlete today too but he wouldn't be the dominating force he was back then today.
How do you define dominating force?
Can you imagine Wilt as a more vertically explosive Shaq? That's who he was.
My issue with these arguments isn't the numbers. That's difficult to compare across eras. It MOST DEFINITELY is the argument in terms of height/athleticism/general skill set. Like, Wilt was more skilled than DeAndre Jordan and Andre Drummond, and actually taller than both.
People keep changing the argument to numbers, as if he wouldn't dominate in this league. I think that's absurd, and not only ignores just how far ahead Wilt was an athlete then, but also how directly translatable his touch in the paint, passing skills, size, and athleticism translate to the modern NBA now.
"League full of milkmen". Please. He put up massive numbers against the NBA's HOFs every game. Seeing Wilt as just a 20/15 guy today, I find unfathomable. Seeing Wilt as a guy that could stop Embiid defensively? Fathomable. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
and, he shot this a lot. It was not like Embid shooting 1 3ptr a game.
Listen to the guy in that video saying "in 1967 Wilt made 35 consecutive shots without a miss - and they weren't all dunks or finger rolls."
I'm old enough to have seen Wilt play. He could score from almost anywhere on the court. Except for FT's for some reason, and considering how good a shot he really was, I think that was a mental block. _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:07 pm Post subject:
P.K. wrote:
For those saying Wilt couldn't shoot
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway
and, he shot this a lot. It was not like Embid shooting 1 3ptr a game.
Listen to the guy in that video saying "in 1967 Wilt made 35 consecutive shots without a miss - and they weren't all dunks or finger rolls."
I'm old enough to have seen Wilt play. He could score from almost anywhere on the court. Except for FT's for some reason, and considering how good a shot he really was, I think that was a mental block.
You know, I understand it when some people think much more fondly of players of decades ago. But Wilt? He's the exception. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
and, he shot this a lot. It was not like Embid shooting 1 3ptr a game.
Listen to the guy in that video saying "in 1967 Wilt made 35 consecutive shots without a miss - and they weren't all dunks or finger rolls."
I'm old enough to have seen Wilt play. He could score from almost anywhere on the court. Except for FT's for some reason, and considering how good a shot he really was, I think that was a mental block.
This modern shot is why Wilt would be great even in today’s game.Now add in how today’s big men are allowed to dislodge their defender from their defensive position in the post and you have a huge problem guarding Wilt.His defense translates into any era.Way way ahead of his time
Considering Wilt could play 48 MPG without complaining about getting tired, and do it for an entire season. I'd say that he'd outlast the majority of centers nowadays that gas after a 10 minute spell.
Consider Wilt's defense, his rebounding, and his natural touch around the basket, passing and scoring ability. He'd have dominated this era of centers.
It'd be interesting to see how any "small ball 'team could have dealt with Wilt, completely taking the paint away and them HAVING to resort to throwing the ball around the perimeter for threes but being unable to open up the paint. Their pace suddenly slows down just because of Wilt.
It doesn't have to slow down. Just make him the most elite PnR roll-man of all type, capable of kicking out to corner shooters if help defenses arrive early.
It's a pretty scary thought.
Pretty much.
Consider this just as a college prospect descripotion
7 Foot 1
275-290 Pounds
7'8 Wingspan
Elite PnR defender
Elite passer
Elite on closeouts
Can switch on point guards
44"inch + vertical leap
Explosive 2nd jump
Can Run a Sub-11 100 yard dash
Amazing touch around the basket
Elite shot blocker and great timing
Unstoppable scorer down low
Unstoppable turnaround jumper from the post
Only weakness is free throws
Just that description alone, you'd take him Number 1 in THIS COMING draft and probably the last 10. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
The people here trying to downplay Wilt really shows their lack of basketball knowledge.
Wilt would be the biggest athletic freak in TODAY’s NBA, let alone his era. Even without modern training, supplements, etc. Today’s small ball centers trying to guard THAT while not even being able to keep up with his speed which is NFL RB level as well? He wouldn’t need to score as many points as he did. His presence on the court would make opposing defenders scramble like headless chicken every time he sets a screen.
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3077 Location: The Left Coast
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject:
Some of your guys' views on Wilt are utterly ridiculous. You have to remember what he did against his level of competition. Wilt destroyed them. No player in any era dominated the opposition like Wilt did. That being said, Wilt was way ahead of his time. He would man handle any era of the NBA.
Wilt would destroy all the modern Cs. He would own Shaq in more ways than Hakeem did as he was more agile than prime Shaq and was built like a tank. _________________ Showtime 2.0
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:38 am Post subject:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Some of your guys' views on Wilt are utterly ridiculous. You have to remember what he did against his level of competition. Wilt destroyed them. No player in any era dominated the opposition like Wilt did. That being said, Wilt was way ahead of his time. He would man handle any era of the NBA.
He dominated bad teams and players. The real true competition he had constantly got the upper hand on him. You don't dominate an era by letting somebody who plays your position get six times your ring count. Wilt won two rings in a crap era, Demarcus cousins would have over ten playing back then. So would guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Anthony Davis and the list goes on.
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:41 am Post subject:
saetarubia wrote:
Wilt would destroy all the modern Cs. He would own Shaq in more ways than Hakeem did as he was more agile than prime Shaq and was built like a tank.
Disagree, Shaq would be dunking straight through Wilt and he'd be ducking for cover. Wilt played so soft compared to Shaq, Shaq would have been tearing those goals to shreds. It's laughable to compare the two. Look at any play of Wilt dunking and compare it to the pure ferocity and brute power that Shaq used. Shaq was also light years ahead of Wilt handling the basketball and had much better footwork in the post.
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 6339 Location: Virginia
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:45 am Post subject:
Megaton wrote:
The people here trying to downplay Wilt really shows their lack of basketball knowledge.
Wilt would be the biggest athletic freak in TODAY’s NBA, let alone his era. Even without modern training, supplements, etc. Today’s small ball centers trying to guard THAT while not even being able to keep up with his speed which is NFL RB level as well? He wouldn’t need to score as many points as he did. His presence on the court would make opposing defenders scramble like headless chicken every time he sets a screen.
Combined with his once league leading passing ability? Can you imagine A Lonzo led offense with prime Wilt here?
Meh show me footage of Wilt running at real 4.4. His passing wasn't even near the level of Shaq, nor was his ball handling. The fact that he can't shoot means on pick and rolls you don't have to worry about him popping out for a shot. Guys like DeAndre Jordan can still make a living that way, but Wilt would just be a lesser version of it.
^The whole thread is predicated on a modern NBA player (Joel Embiid) being surprised by Wilt's level of athleticism.
Shrug.
Wilt was the best athlete of his era. He'd be a great athlete today too but he wouldn't be the dominating force he was back then today.
How do you define dominating force?
Can you imagine Wilt as a more vertically explosive Shaq? That's who he was.
My issue with these arguments isn't the numbers. That's difficult to compare across eras. It MOST DEFINITELY is the argument in terms of height/athleticism/general skill set. Like, Wilt was more skilled than DeAndre Jordan and Andre Drummond, and actually taller than both.
People keep changing the argument to numbers, as if he wouldn't dominate in this league. I think that's absurd, and not only ignores just how far ahead Wilt was an athlete then, but also how directly translatable his touch in the paint, passing skills, size, and athleticism translate to the modern NBA now.
"League full of milkmen". Please. He put up massive numbers against the NBA's HOFs every game. Seeing Wilt as just a 20/15 guy today, I find unfathomable. Seeing Wilt as a guy that could stop Embiid defensively? Fathomable.
anyone saying wilt would not destroy all bigs in this league are being silly. lol.
Any uber athletic extremely mobile center with great hands and a desire to play defense and offense would put up huge numbers in today's nba. What centers are going to stop or slow him? NON. what PF's are going to give him a hard time? Non.
The best defensive bigs that come to mind are not that great at man defense. they are very good at helpside defense. Capella, DJ, those types.
DJ was getting schooled by a guy with two bad knees that went by the name of andrew bynum. this current era only knows a handful of guys that has any post moves, let alone someone with that kind of strength like wilt had, the size, and the pure athleticism.
He would dominate easily. Even in the perimeter oriented nba. people think just because everyone is chucking 3's now it means the post is dead. thats a lie. the post is only dead because only recently with a few current newer centers have we had guys that wanted to get their back to the basket games tight. cousins, embid, a couple of others out there.
shoot wilt wouldnt even have to post up. he could be Deandre jordan and would be better at it then DJ because he's even stronger, and bigger and more athletic, with larger hands.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:03 am Post subject:
MJST wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
MJST wrote:
Considering Wilt could play 48 MPG without complaining about getting tired, and do it for an entire season. I'd say that he'd outlast the majority of centers nowadays that gas after a 10 minute spell.
Consider Wilt's defense, his rebounding, and his natural touch around the basket, passing and scoring ability. He'd have dominated this era of centers.
It'd be interesting to see how any "small ball 'team could have dealt with Wilt, completely taking the paint away and them HAVING to resort to throwing the ball around the perimeter for threes but being unable to open up the paint. Their pace suddenly slows down just because of Wilt.
It doesn't have to slow down. Just make him the most elite PnR roll-man of all type, capable of kicking out to corner shooters if help defenses arrive early.
It's a pretty scary thought.
Pretty much.
Consider this just as a college prospect descripotion
7 Foot 1
275-290 Pounds
7'8 Wingspan
Elite PnR defender
Elite passer
Elite on closeouts
Can switch on point guards
44"inch + vertical leap
Explosive 2nd jump
Can Run a Sub-11 100 yard dash
Amazing touch around the basket
Elite shot blocker and great timing
Unstoppable scorer down low
Unstoppable turnaround jumper from the post
Only weakness is free throws
Just that description alone, you'd take him Number 1 in THIS COMING draft and probably the last 10.
If we compared to DeAndre Ayton, he's every bit as big, just as long. He doesn't have the twitch of a younger Wilt. He doesn't swat/protect the rim anywhere like Wilt. Definitely doesn't have the speed of Wilt. I think he has better perimeter feet (I mean, he switches well for NCAA comp on defense real well). Unstoppable in the paint. Range to 18'.
Projected Top 3.
It's like the difference between Shaq and Alonzo Mourning.
Wilt's worst rebounding year at the NBA level was 18.4 _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3077 Location: The Left Coast
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:26 am Post subject:
kobeandgary wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
Some of your guys' views on Wilt are utterly ridiculous. You have to remember what he did against his level of competition. Wilt destroyed them. No player in any era dominated the opposition like Wilt did. That being said, Wilt was way ahead of his time. He would man handle any era of the NBA.
He dominated bad teams and players. The real true competition he had constantly got the upper hand on him. You don't dominate an era by letting somebody who plays your position get six times your ring count. Wilt won two rings in a crap era, Demarcus cousins would have over ten playing back then. So would guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Anthony Davis and the list goes on.
Although I understand your take, I disagree. Any modern athlete would dominate in eras of the past. The athlete today has a lot more access to things like trainers, supplements, medical knowledge, learning from those who played before, etc. Would Kobe play like Kobe if he never saw MJ play? That's interesting to think about. There's a reason why Bob Cousy would look inept now with his handles compared to Kyrie Irving, but in his era he was the best. That's why I have a hard time judging players against each other in different eras.
Interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger about Wilt Chamberlain's incredible strength from the time they worked together on Conan the Destroyer
Remember, that movie was filmed in 1983 when Arnold was still lifting and competing _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Considering Wilt could play 48 MPG without complaining about getting tired, and do it for an entire season. I'd say that he'd outlast the majority of centers nowadays that gas after a 10 minute spell.
Consider Wilt's defense, his rebounding, and his natural touch around the basket, passing and scoring ability. He'd have dominated this era of centers.
It'd be interesting to see how any "small ball 'team could have dealt with Wilt, completely taking the paint away and them HAVING to resort to throwing the ball around the perimeter for threes but being unable to open up the paint. Their pace suddenly slows down just because of Wilt.
It doesn't have to slow down. Just make him the most elite PnR roll-man of all type, capable of kicking out to corner shooters if help defenses arrive early.
It's a pretty scary thought.
Pretty much.
Consider this just as a college prospect descripotion
7 Foot 1
275-290 Pounds
7'8 Wingspan
Elite PnR defender
Elite passer
Elite on closeouts
Can switch on point guards
44"inch + vertical leap
Explosive 2nd jump
Can Run a Sub-11 100 yard dash
Amazing touch around the basket
Elite shot blocker and great timing
Unstoppable scorer down low
Unstoppable turnaround jumper from the post
Only weakness is free throws
Just that description alone, you'd take him Number 1 in THIS COMING draft and probably the last 10.
If we compared to DeAndre Ayton, he's every bit as big, just as long. He doesn't have the twitch of a younger Wilt. He doesn't swat/protect the rim anywhere like Wilt. Definitely doesn't have the speed of Wilt. I think he has better perimeter feet (I mean, he switches well for NCAA comp on defense real well). Unstoppable in the paint. Range to 18'.
Projected Top 3.
It's like the difference between Shaq and Alonzo Mourning.
Wilt's worst rebounding year at the NBA level was 18.4
When Lebron first came into the NBA, my first thought was that he looked & played like a shorter version of Wilt.
We're talking LBJ's first 5 years in the league, when he was a gazelle fast 6'8" 260lb Small Forward that was destroying the other SF's in the game with his strength, athleticism, and skill. (before LBJ got more finesse obsessed)
yeah, LBJ can do things Wilt couldn't do - same way Wilt could do things LBJ only dreams about.
But, you add 4" and 50lbs to LBJ and keep his same (younger) speed/power and athleticism - and that was what Wilt looked like _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject:
^I've been watching LeBron since he was 15. I mean, it was obvious that dude was going to start off in the NBA real fast and not be a project.
Then he started his rookie year as a PG and was fairly seamless anyway.
If anything, it's frustrating that his ability to change direction before and mid-drive has actually regressed since HS and early NBA career. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
And people like you like to severely underrate it.
Again, this is a description of Wilt, think of any player with this description instead of lying to yourself about athletes of today being SO FAR AHEAD of yesteryear.
7 Foot 1
275-290 Pounds
7'8 Wingspan
Elite PnR defender
Elite passer
Elite on closeouts
Can switch on point guards
44"inch + vertical leap
Explosive 2nd jump
Can Run a Sub-11 100 yard dash
Amazing touch around the basket
Elite shot blocker and great timing
Unstoppable scorer down low
Unstoppable turnaround jumper from the post
Only weakness is free throws
Now any college prospect you read that you say they go Number 1 the last 5-10 drafts.
That + Wilts ability to score inside and mid and had an unstoppable turnaround
So instead of accusing people of romanticizing the past, perhaps acknowledge you may be severely underrating it, because it's the past.
And people like you like to severely underrate it.
Again, this is a description of Wilt, think of any player with this description instead of lying to yourself about athletes of today being SO FAR AHEAD of yesteryear.
7 Foot 1
275-290 Pounds
7'8 Wingspan
Elite PnR defender
Elite passer
Elite on closeouts
Can switch on point guards
44"inch + vertical leap
Explosive 2nd jump
Can Run a Sub-11 100 yard dash
Amazing touch around the basket
Elite shot blocker and great timing
Unstoppable scorer down low
Unstoppable turnaround jumper from the post
Only weakness is free throws
Now any college prospect you read that you say they go Number 1 the last 5-10 drafts.
That + Wilts ability to score inside and mid and had an unstoppable turnaround
So instead of accusing people of romanticizing the past, perhaps acknowledge you may be severely underrating it, because it's the past.
Also check out this video:
It may offer further insight.
Don't forget they changed the free throw rule because of him since he'd dunk from the line every time down. _________________
"Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."
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