When people say Wilt is stronger, bigger, blah blah than someone like AD my first question is always "who did Wilt play against that was anywhere near the player AD is?" The answer is no one.
Wrong.
Kareem IN HIS PRIME is far and away a better player than Anthony Davis and arguable GOAT.
What center has Anthony Davis played against that is anywhere near the defender Bill Russell was or the player Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is?
Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 1715 Location: San Francisco, CA
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
Day wrote:
When people say Wilt is stronger, bigger, blah blah than someone like AD my first question is always "who did Wilt play against that was anywhere near the player AD is?" The answer is no one.
Wrong.
Kareem IN HIS PRIME is far and away a better player than Anthony Davis and arguable GOAT.
What center has Anthony Davis played against that is anywhere near the defender Bill Russell was or the player Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is?
THAT is when the answer is no one.
Wilt was way passed his prime when he played against Kareem, though. All of the Wilt records and dominance was not done against Kareem. It's kind of like saying Kobe played against MJ but MJ was way passed his prime and on his way out when Kobe came into his own. It's the same way with Kareem coming in after Wilt was already passed his prime.
And as great as Yao was in the post, I saw first hand how a good defensive coach that utilized the new defensive rules to his advantage could turn Houston's simple post-up offense centered a 7'6" skilled monster C (which would have been pretty much unstoppable in the 90's), into a dangerously TO-heavy/risky scheme (in which the best case was a FGA from <10ft, where Yao made a very high %, but the worst case was a TO and no FGA at all; a high-risk/low-reward offense, even with a great player).
Yao is a horrible comparison because he literally had negative footspeed. That's why fronting could neutralize him because he lacked mobility. He should never be compared to an athlete like Wilt. To do a proper comparison to how someone like Wilt would do in today's league, you need a modern day athlete to compare him to. Shaq came the closest, and even he doesn't compare to his combination of size, speed and agility.
Old school bigs that had post moves and great lateral quickness would still dominate in this era. Thr really aren't any bigs like that today and the ones who come close (Davis and The Process) can't stay healthy. But look at their production when they can actually play....
FYI, Capela is avg 15/11 on 66% shooting this year and he only plays 27 mpg. Almost all of his scoring comes from the P&R. He doesn't match Wilt as an athlete. Assuming the current rules discourage posting from guys with the skills to actually do it (lol), Wilt would still dominate off the P&R action alone.
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:09 pm Post subject:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
Cut his minutes. He still plays 32-36. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
In 1962, Wilt played 36 “back-to-backs” (12 times three-straight, once four-straight), 48 minutes in each, and this was prior to commercial breaks. Comical.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
The opposite is true. With modern medicine and training techniques he would be in even better shape. I mean he was wearing Chuck Taylors- have you ever put those on your feet? It is like walking on a hard piece of rubber. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
The opposite is true. With modern medicine and training techniques he would be in even better shape. I mean he was wearing Chuck Taylors- have you ever put those on your feet? It is like walking on a hard piece of rubber.
No the opposite is not true. The game is way more demanding now and Wilt's body would break down way faster if even tried to play 40 MPG let alone 48 MPG.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
The opposite is true. With modern medicine and training techniques he would be in even better shape. I mean he was wearing Chuck Taylors- have you ever put those on your feet? It is like walking on a hard piece of rubber.
No the opposite is not true. The game is way more demanding now and Wilt's body would break down way faster if even tried to play 40 MPG let alone 48 MPG.
" the 60's era in which Wilt played, was a more physical era. There were no sissy flagrant or hand-check fouls during that time. Refs allowed those physical tactics go unpunished because the owners and NBA management believe that blood and violence was what brought people to basketball games back then.
Superstar players like Wilt received no favorable treatment from refs and, in fact, refs often sided with the opposing team against Wilt because they feel that he is simply too dominating. The NBA enacted rules to stop Wilt somehow.
And what made it even more amazing is that he had 3-4 guys collapsing and getting rough on him whenever he touched the ball. Unless you're Bill Russell and feeling lucky, Wilt was NEVER played one on one.
What would it be like if a prime 7'1'' 300-pounder with a 55" vertical and a 500 bench press came into the league now? I think he'd expose the NBA for the sham it is today.
First, he'd definitely lead the NBA in rebounds. He'd average 18.
Second, he'd lead the league in blocks. He'd average six or seven.
Third, he'd lead the league in shooting percentage for guys over 15 points per game.
He'd average over 60 percent.
Fourth, he'd lead the league in free throws tried. 15-20 per game.
He would also lead in minutes played at 45 per game. No center could run with him.
He'd average well over 20 points and a fraction over seven assists, also. And his team, no matter which one he's put on, would contend immediately.
Since there's so few good centers now, and a bloated 30-team league where he only plays half of them twice, the regular season would be a cakewalk.
Then, they'd have to figure out how to pay him, easily the greatest player ever...
The NBA today is lucky he came along earlier.
Wilt was benching 465 when he was 59 years old! That was a mere four years before he passed away. He used to work out with Arnold the Terminator, and his bench press was over 500 when he was younger." _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
In 2015 Jerry West said Wilt would embarrass the centers of today.Im sure some of you know more than the logo about player assessment but I’m going with Jerry on this one
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:17 am Post subject:
1since71 wrote:
In 2015 Jerry West said Wilt would embarrass the centers of today.Im sure some of you know more than the logo about player assessment but I’m going with Jerry on this one
The closest guy to him to today is completely healthy Athony Davis. Wilt was a lot taller, longer and boucier than him though.
Shaq was a beast, but his conditioning let him down. Wilt was a fitness freak on the level of Kobe. He was the the combination that I always dreamed about being on the Lakers- Shaq's body with the work ethic of Kobe. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:21 am Post subject:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Wilt would not be able to play as many minutes today as he did back then. The game is way more grueling and demanding physically and mentally than it was back his days. His body would probably fall apart faster than it did then and even in that era his body only held up until he was like 29/30 then it started to break down.
m
Right, charter planes and luxury hotels are much more grueling than bus rides and dive hotels. And Wilt’s body never fell apart. You seem to lack clarity of that time period. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
There's a famous pic of him while he was a track star in college, showing him jumping straight up next to a high-jump bar. He was about 54 inches off the ground when the photo was taken (it won the photographer an award). Wilt wasn't sure if he was on the way up or on the way down. Even when he was playing volleyball, he'd often be photographed spiking the ball, and his waist would be over the net. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
There's a famous pic of him while he was a track star in college, showing him jumping straight up next to a high-jump bar. He was about 54 inches off the ground when the photo was taken (it won the photographer an award). Wilt wasn't sure if he was on the way up or on the way down. Even when he was playing volleyball, he'd often be photographed spiking the ball, and his waist would be over the net.
The pic in question is contained in this video. That high jump bar is supposedly just under 7'
along with footage of him blocking a shot near the top of the backboard
_________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
There's a famous pic of him while he was a track star in college, showing him jumping straight up next to a high-jump bar. He was about 54 inches off the ground when the photo was taken (it won the photographer an award). Wilt wasn't sure if he was on the way up or on the way down. Even when he was playing volleyball, he'd often be photographed spiking the ball, and his waist would be over the net.
The pic in question is contained in this video. That high jump bar is supposedly just under 7'
along with footage of him blocking a shot near the top of the backboard
The shot block is nowhere near the top of the backboard. We’ve discussed this in several prior threads. It is a product of the camera angle. In order to have a 55” vertical, Wilt’s feet would need to be nearly five feet off the ground. They aren’t. And he certainly was not high jumping at 300 pounds.
This is what I mean about mythology. It makes a rational discussion of Wilt’s career impossible.
There's a famous pic of him while he was a track star in college, showing him jumping straight up next to a high-jump bar. He was about 54 inches off the ground when the photo was taken (it won the photographer an award). Wilt wasn't sure if he was on the way up or on the way down. Even when he was playing volleyball, he'd often be photographed spiking the ball, and his waist would be over the net.
The pic in question is contained in this video. That high jump bar is supposedly just under 7'
along with footage of him blocking a shot near the top of the backboard
The shot block is nowhere near the top of the backboard. We’ve discussed this in several prior threads. It is a product of the camera angle. In order to have a 55” vertical, Wilt’s feet would need to be nearly five feet off the ground. They aren’t. And he certainly was not high jumping at 300 pounds.
This is what I mean about mythology. It makes a rational discussion of Wilt’s career impossible.
1. I didn't say he had a 55" vertical, someone else did. However, he is reported to have had a vertical in the 46-48" range.
2. if you look at some of the blocks Wilt did perform, his feet (legs extended) are at waist level of other players. I'm 6'6" tall in bare feet and wear 36" inseam pants. My beltline waist level is 46"-47" and I'm not as tall as some of the players Wilt was blocking shots on. There's a pretty good shot in that vid I copied in of Wilt doing a block where there are 2 guys in front of him and one guy behind, and Wilts feet are at or close to waist level on all of them - which eliminates the camera angle theory pretty quick, since 2 guys are in front and one in back.
if you have a standing reach of 9'6" and can jump 46", that gives you a jumping reach of about 13'4". The top of an NBA backboard is 13'
I'm not going to swear that Wilt could touch the top of an NBA backboard, since I've never seen it myself. However, other NBA players and coaches have said he could.
I said "near the top of the backboard" and even if you were to whack 8" off his supposed 46" vertical leap, that would give him a 38" vertical. Still high enough for a man with a 9'6" standing reach to touch 12'8" on a 13' high backboard. "Near" enough for me _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
Okay, but this is the problem. The other poster did say 55" (or at least it was in an article he quoted), and you're talking about whether he could touch the top of the backboard. We've had other threads that discussed whether he could really pick quarters off the top of the backboard, whether he dunked free throws, and whether he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. If you believe all of that stuff, that's fine. But this makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about him as a player, especially when he gets compared to modern players.
Okay, but this is the problem. The other poster did say 55" (or at least it was in an article he quoted), and you're talking about whether he could touch the top of the backboard. We've had other threads that discussed whether he could really pick quarters off the top of the backboard, whether he dunked free throws, and whether he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. If you believe all of that stuff, that's fine. But this makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about him as a player, especially when he gets compared to modern players.
You know, there is a root to every Wilt story out there. Just because a few fans might not understand his vertical leap or have enough data to speak on one particular facet to his athleticism doesn't make it all impossible to talk about.
What do you wish to see some source articles from? Let's start small, pick one facet of his athleticism and I can provide root information. Not stories repeated 2nd and 3rd hand 25+ years after he played - I mean I can provide you the first hand accounts. I've done the research for a few years now I've got it organized. Anything you think is hogwash that you'd wish to be cleared up a bit more?
Okay, but this is the problem. The other poster did say 55" (or at least it was in an article he quoted), and you're talking about whether he could touch the top of the backboard. We've had other threads that discussed whether he could really pick quarters off the top of the backboard, whether he dunked free throws, and whether he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. If you believe all of that stuff, that's fine. But this makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about him as a player, especially when he gets compared to modern players.
55" is ridiculous, and I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it on a certified vertical jump machine
Willie "The Goat" Manigault claimed he could take a quarter off the top of the backboard too. He was 6' tall, and that would have required a vertical leap of something like 62"
that was ridiculous too
BTW: for years, Shaq had the highest vertical reach at 12'5" - until Dwight Howard broke it at 12'6"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923942-watch-dwight-howard-break-shaqs-vertical-reach-record-for-sports-science
that means both Shaq and Howard were within 6-7" of touching the top of the 13' tall backboard. Which is pretty freaking "near" too
The idea that Wilt would be able to get closer doesn't require a stretch of imagination at all _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
You know, there is a root to every Wilt story out there. Just because a few fans might not understand his vertical leap or have enough data to speak on one particular facet to his athleticism doesn't make it all impossible to talk about.
What do you wish to see some source articles from? Let's start small, pick one facet of his athleticism and I can provide root information. Not stories repeated 2nd and 3rd hand 25+ years after he played - I mean I can provide you the first hand accounts. I've done the research for a few years now I've got it organized. Anything you think is hogwash that you'd wish to be cleared up a bit more?
We've been through this before. You have marinated yourself in the BS for so long that it has become obsessive. I'm surprised you haven't made a highlight video for the bobcat that Wilt killed with his bare hands.
Okay, but this is the problem. The other poster did say 55" (or at least it was in an article he quoted), and you're talking about whether he could touch the top of the backboard. We've had other threads that discussed whether he could really pick quarters off the top of the backboard, whether he dunked free throws, and whether he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. If you believe all of that stuff, that's fine. But this makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about him as a player, especially when he gets compared to modern players.
55" is ridiculous, and I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it on a certified vertical jump machine
Willie "The Goat" Manigault claimed he could take a quarter off the top of the backboard too. He was 6' tall, and that would have required a vertical leap of something like 62"
that was ridiculous too
BTW: for years, Shaq had the highest vertical reach at 12'5" - until Dwight Howard broke it at 12'6"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923942-watch-dwight-howard-break-shaqs-vertical-reach-record-for-sports-science
that means both Shaq and Howard were within 6-7" of touching the top of the 13' tall backboard. Which is pretty freaking "near" too
The idea that Wilt would be able to get closer doesn't require a stretch of imagination at all
Again, this is the point. You are trying to prove to me that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard. We've even had discussions about Manigault in these threads before. Discussions about Wilt always go off on these tangents.
Okay, but this is the problem. The other poster did say 55" (or at least it was in an article he quoted), and you're talking about whether he could touch the top of the backboard. We've had other threads that discussed whether he could really pick quarters off the top of the backboard, whether he dunked free throws, and whether he killed a bobcat with his bare hands. If you believe all of that stuff, that's fine. But this makes it impossible to have a rational discussion about him as a player, especially when he gets compared to modern players.
55" is ridiculous, and I wouldn't believe it unless I saw it on a certified vertical jump machine
Willie "The Goat" Manigault claimed he could take a quarter off the top of the backboard too. He was 6' tall, and that would have required a vertical leap of something like 62"
that was ridiculous too
BTW: for years, Shaq had the highest vertical reach at 12'5" - until Dwight Howard broke it at 12'6"
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/923942-watch-dwight-howard-break-shaqs-vertical-reach-record-for-sports-science
that means both Shaq and Howard were within 6-7" of touching the top of the 13' tall backboard. Which is pretty freaking "near" too
The idea that Wilt would be able to get closer doesn't require a stretch of imagination at all
Again, this is the point. You are trying to prove to me that Wilt could touch the top of the backboard. We've even had discussions about Manigault in these threads before. Discussions about Wilt always go off on these tangents.
Again, I never said he could touch the top of the backboard. As I pointed otu 2 posts ago, I wouldn't say that unless I saw it myself.
All I said was that Wilt was "NEAR" the top of the backboard. And then I also showed that Howard and Shaq were both measured at 12'6" (or 12'5") which is only 6" from the top of the backboard.
You are the one that keeps taking things off on a tangent by continually asserting that I've either said things I didn't say, or arguing points I specifically denied. _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
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No the opposite is not true. The game is way more demanding now and Wilt's body would break down way faster if even tried to play 40 MPG let alone 48 MPG.
