Joel Embiid marveled at Wilt Chamberlain's athleticism during the ASG - I put together a vid of what he was on about
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Wino
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Was Wilt more athletic than Shaq?


Come on guys, by a long shot!! He was NOT more dominant, per se, but he was way more athletic. Way more in shape.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject:

Jellojigglin wrote:
Wilt said Kareem was the all time greatest NBA player.


As great an athlete as Wilt was, I think he was right.

The reason that I give it to Kareem is because of all the rings, MVP's, length of career and the scoring record.

If Wilt would have stuck around as long as Kareem did, put up his same numbers and won at least a couple more rings, then he would be the GOAT. He retired a bit early for all that by my estimation.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
So much exaggeration and hyperbole when it comes to Wilt. I don't trust any of the athletic feat #s associate with Wilt unless it was an official time at a sanctioned event. No anecdotes.

I'd still take Shaq over Wilt for most dominant player through eras.



So, did you actually ever watch him play for a season? So, anything that anyone says about him, is simply an exaggeration and hyperbole to you??

Dude, if that is the case, butt out of the conversation, you have nothing to add because you don't know anything.

To me, the reason Wilt does NOT get all the accolades is simply because he only won two rings. He often could NOT get past Russell, even when he was often times the better player, his team lost.

I have much appreciation for Shaq, but he was NOT bigger or stronger than Wilt, but he would give Wilt problems. I have no doubt about that, but Wilt would give Shaq fits as well. That would have been a fun game to watch, too bad it never happened.

But as a fan who watched Wilt play for a number of years, before he came to the Lakers until he retired, you need to either believe it, or simply admit you got nothing.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
So much exaggeration and hyperbole when it comes to Wilt. I don't trust any of the athletic feat #s associate with Wilt unless it was an official time at a sanctioned event. No anecdotes.

I'd still take Shaq over Wilt for most dominant player through eras.


50 PPG and over 25 RPG averages for a whole season in the officially sanctioned NBA enough for you? Did Snaq ever average over 14 rpg? Did he ever average over 30 PPG? Wilt would destroy him.


Shaq would put up 70 and 50 in that era




I don’t think Shaq could make a play like that. Wilt was so physically gifted.




Shaq's prime highlights are against the GOAT lineup of centers including Hakeem, Mourning, Robinson, Ewing, etc. Not vs milkmen and meat butchers who play NBA ball part time like Wilt


This is the biggest crock of poop that you kids continually try to put out there.

Wilt went against a ton of really good centers.

Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Kareem, Unseld, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Bill Russell. There are a number of others who came on late in Wilt's career too. Not going to name them all, these are just the guys that I can pull out of my hat.

If you wanted to make the argument that there were a couple of more elite centers during Shaq's career, you might have an argument. But there some solid, very good, centers during Wilt's career.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
jjangx27 wrote:
So what were the weaknesses in Wilt's game??


His FT% was bad. So I guess he can't shoot from outside despite them making it seem like he had easy 3P range in the vid.


Yeah Wilt shooting 3's made me laugh. Worst FT shooter of all time. He only had one memorable game where he made his FT's. LOL
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject:

LandsbergerRules wrote:
Anyone have a theory why Wilt's scoring average dropped off so significantly in the playoffs, unlike pretty much any other all-time great (Kareem, Magic, Bird, MJ, Kobe, etc.)?


Yeah, trying to balance the team.

The thing was, Wilt dominated but they could not beat the better TEAMS, who had balance in scoring. When he came to the Lakers, he agreed to concentrating on defense, rebounds and playmaking. He only averaged around 15 per game when we finally won our first ring.

The thing is, the NBA is a team sport and I really believe that NO SINGLE man, despite his greatness can single handedly win a championship. I think Wilt knew this too. When he had enough guys around him that could score, he would back off, when he didn't, he tried to be the hero. Kind of like Kobe.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Anyone have a theory why Wilt's scoring average dropped off so significantly in the playoffs, unlike pretty much any other all-time great (Kareem, Magic, Bird, MJ, Kobe, etc.)?


Yeah, trying to balance the team.

The thing was, Wilt dominated but they could not beat the better TEAMS, who had balance in scoring. When he came to the Lakers, he agreed to concentrating on defense, rebounds and playmaking. He only averaged around 15 per game when we finally won our first ring.

The thing is, the NBA is a team sport and I really believe that NO SINGLE man, despite his greatness can single handedly win a championship. I think Wilt knew this too. When he had enough guys around him that could score, he would back off, when he didn't, he tried to be the hero. Kind of like Kobe.


He had repeated dominant games against Russell, but those Celtic teams were ridiculously stacked.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject:

It’s the GM’s fault Wilt won 2 rings and not more.Wilt was such a unique player he needed specific types of players around him.When his GM got it right we got two teams that set the single season record in wins and a still record 33 game winning streak
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Wino wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
Anyone have a theory why Wilt's scoring average dropped off so significantly in the playoffs, unlike pretty much any other all-time great (Kareem, Magic, Bird, MJ, Kobe, etc.)?


Yeah, trying to balance the team.

The thing was, Wilt dominated but they could not beat the better TEAMS, who had balance in scoring. When he came to the Lakers, he agreed to concentrating on defense, rebounds and playmaking. He only averaged around 15 per game when we finally won our first ring.

The thing is, the NBA is a team sport and I really believe that NO SINGLE man, despite his greatness can single handedly win a championship. I think Wilt knew this too. When he had enough guys around him that could score, he would back off, when he didn't, he tried to be the hero. Kind of like Kobe.


He had repeated dominant games against Russell, but those Celtic teams were ridiculously stacked.


Yep.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
So much exaggeration and hyperbole when it comes to Wilt. I don't trust any of the athletic feat #s associate with Wilt unless it was an official time at a sanctioned event. No anecdotes.

I'd still take Shaq over Wilt for most dominant player through eras.


50 PPG and over 25 RPG averages for a whole season in the officially sanctioned NBA enough for you? Did Snaq ever average over 14 rpg? Did he ever average over 30 PPG? Wilt would destroy him.


Shaq would put up 70 and 50 in that era




I don’t think Shaq could make a play like that. Wilt was so physically gifted.




Shaq's prime highlights are against the GOAT lineup of centers including Hakeem, Mourning, Robinson, Ewing, etc. Not vs milkmen and meat butchers who play NBA ball part time like Wilt


This is the biggest crock of poop that you kids continually try to put out there.

Wilt went against a ton of really good centers.

Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Kareem, Unseld, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Bill Russell. There are a number of others who came on late in Wilt's career too. Not going to name them all, these are just the guys that I can pull out of my hat.

If you wanted to make the argument that there were a couple of more elite centers during Shaq's career, you might have an argument. But there some solid, very good, centers during Wilt's career.


Yes Wilt went against
Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Kareem, Unseld, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Bill Russell.

Shaq went against a past his prime Dikembe Mutumbo, David Robinson and a past his prime Vlade Divac.

And when he went up against someone at the level like a Hakeem, he got schooled.

So that may be something to think about for people that want to try to toot the "Wilt didn't play against any competitive centers" argument if they actually try to bring Shaq into it

In my personal opinion Wilt was as strong as if not stronger than Shaq and more athletic. Most importantly he stayed at that kind of level longer than that 3 year span we all remember Shaq for. Wilt did that consistently and stayed in shape. Shaq wouldn't have been able to overpower Wilt, and Shaq wouldn't have been able to defend Wilt's offense in the post, nor his jump shot outside of it.

Rodman frustrated the heck out of Shaq and Hakeem schooled him. Wilt would have done far worse. But let's not get into THAT discussion


IF you were to ask me right now, who I'd rather start a franchise with at center, and I had to pick between Wilt and Shaq, I'd choose Wilt 10 out of 10 times tbh. Not a slight to Shaq, but Wilt was a more complete player than Shaq, in addition to the fact you could count on Wilt to stay in shape year round, and that was WITHOUT the advantages that Shaq had in the way of trainers/scheduling.

Imagine if Wilt had all the technology that Shaq was privy to(and didn't take advantage of), considering Wilt's work ethic.

Imagine if that was WILT on the Lakers with Kobe and BOTH of them with their insane work ethic were the 1-2 punch of the Lakers.... Would you pick a Wilt/Kobe Lakers team to defeat the Shaq/Kobe Lakers team?

It's quite a discussion to have tbh.


Just a few things to consider though.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject:

Wilt would probably be the best center in todays game but he wouldn't be the best player. Wilt may be one of the most overrated player of all time, players back then overall didn't have the same talent as todays players, no way he puts up the same numbers.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:40 am    Post subject:

Anthony Davis is averaging 27/11 with 2.2 Blocks Per Game this year.

What do you think Wilt would do? He's taller, bigger, longer, stronger, and more athletic than Davis.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:24 am    Post subject:

Forgot about The Big E... the man who stopped Kareem's winning streak in college

Another great who played against both Kareem and Wilt.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Wino wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
So much exaggeration and hyperbole when it comes to Wilt. I don't trust any of the athletic feat #s associate with Wilt unless it was an official time at a sanctioned event. No anecdotes.

I'd still take Shaq over Wilt for most dominant player through eras.


50 PPG and over 25 RPG averages for a whole season in the officially sanctioned NBA enough for you? Did Snaq ever average over 14 rpg? Did he ever average over 30 PPG? Wilt would destroy him.


Shaq would put up 70 and 50 in that era




I don’t think Shaq could make a play like that. Wilt was so physically gifted.




Shaq's prime highlights are against the GOAT lineup of centers including Hakeem, Mourning, Robinson, Ewing, etc. Not vs milkmen and meat butchers who play NBA ball part time like Wilt


This is the biggest crock of poop that you kids continually try to put out there.

Wilt went against a ton of really good centers.

Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Kareem, Unseld, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Bill Russell. There are a number of others who came on late in Wilt's career too. Not going to name them all, these are just the guys that I can pull out of my hat.

If you wanted to make the argument that there were a couple of more elite centers during Shaq's career, you might have an argument. But there some solid, very good, centers during Wilt's career.


Yes Wilt went against
Willis Reed, Elvin Hayes, Kareem, Unseld, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Bob Lanier, Bill Russell.

Shaq went against a past his prime Dikembe Mutumbo, David Robinson and a past his prime Vlade Divac.

And when he went up against someone at the level like a Hakeem, he got schooled.

So that may be something to think about for people that want to try to toot the "Wilt didn't play against any competitive centers" argument if they actually try to bring Shaq into it

In my personal opinion Wilt was as strong as if not stronger than Shaq and more athletic. Most importantly he stayed at that kind of level longer than that 3 year span we all remember Shaq for. Wilt did that consistently and stayed in shape. Shaq wouldn't have been able to overpower Wilt, and Shaq wouldn't have been able to defend Wilt's offense in the post, nor his jump shot outside of it.

Rodman frustrated the heck out of Shaq and Hakeem schooled him. Wilt would have done far worse. But let's not get into THAT discussion


IF you were to ask me right now, who I'd rather start a franchise with at center, and I had to pick between Wilt and Shaq, I'd choose Wilt 10 out of 10 times tbh. Not a slight to Shaq, but Wilt was a more complete player than Shaq, in addition to the fact you could count on Wilt to stay in shape year round, and that was WITHOUT the advantages that Shaq had in the way of trainers/scheduling.

Imagine if Wilt had all the technology that Shaq was privy to(and didn't take advantage of), considering Wilt's work ethic.

Imagine if that was WILT on the Lakers with Kobe and BOTH of them with their insane work ethic were the 1-2 punch of the Lakers.... Would you pick a Wilt/Kobe Lakers team to defeat the Shaq/Kobe Lakers team?

It's quite a discussion to have tbh.


Just a few things to consider though.


Shaq won 4 rings in a much, much tougher era. Wilt only winning two rings in his career is a testament to how inflated his numbers were, and how inflated opinions are about how meaningful his stats were.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:10 am    Post subject:

I guess the man with a history of being the best at evaluating talent knows nothing about what Wilt would do to modern NBA players

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/wilt-chamberlain-todays-centers-jerry-west/
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Quote:


Shaq won 4 rings in a much, much tougher era.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/861bacddcede7f561637a73e742b537d/tenor.gif?itemid=10264855

False. Why do you think Wilt only got 2 rings?

The Celtics with what, 5-6 HOFs won 1959-1966 then 1968 and 1969.

My eyes can't roll far enough man.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Anthony Davis is averaging 27/11 with 2.2 Blocks Per Game this year.

What do you think Wilt would do? He's taller, bigger, longer, stronger, and more athletic than Davis.


26/15/3/1/3
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

Here is a recent evaluation of Wilt by the author of Thinking Basketball:

http://www.backpicks.com/2017/12/04/backpicks-goat-9-wilt-chamberlain/

I got tired of the occasional Wilt debates a couple years ago. There is so much mythology about Wilt that it distracts from a rational discussion of his career.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject:

PurpleAndGOAT wrote:
Wilt would probably be the best center in todays game but he wouldn't be the best player. Wilt may be one of the most overrated player of all time, players back then overall didn't have the same talent as todays players, no way he puts up the same numbers.


What did Wilt not do that wouldn’t make him the best player today? FT shooting is all I can think of. He could score, rebound, defend, and assist for his teammates.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:30 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
PurpleAndGOAT wrote:
Wilt would probably be the best center in todays game but he wouldn't be the best player. Wilt may be one of the most overrated player of all time, players back then overall didn't have the same talent as todays players, no way he puts up the same numbers.


What did Wilt not do that wouldn’t make him the best player today? FT shooting is all I can think of. He could score, rebound, defend, and assist for his teammates.


Shoot like Anthony Davis.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
PurpleAndGOAT wrote:
Wilt would probably be the best center in todays game but he wouldn't be the best player. Wilt may be one of the most overrated player of all time, players back then overall didn't have the same talent as todays players, no way he puts up the same numbers.


What did Wilt not do that wouldn’t make him the best player today? FT shooting is all I can think of. He could score, rebound, defend, and assist for his teammates.


Shoot like Anthony Davis.


I think the fact that he had a solid jump shot is enough.

The only thing Wilt wouldn't have is a three point shot.

But he could hit from mid, and he did throughout his career consistently.

So when it comes down to it With his size, speed, athleticism, and all around game to score from mid and the paint, coupled with his defense, strength and length. You'd be hard pressed to find someone better.

ESPECIALLY in today's NBA where offenses are essentially drawn up to prioritize either scoring in the paint or shooting the three, and have gone backwards from the mid range.

Wilt would force teams to have to change their entire game plan because he'd take away the paint. So they'd either need to constantly swing it around the perimeter without utilizing the paint because Wilt is going to swat it away, or they'd need to take more mid range shots.

Either way, Wilt changes a lot of team's strategies simply by being on the other team.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject:

10' is very different from a real jumpshot outside of the paint (mid), let alone 3.

I've yet to see a midrange shot from Wilt, and when I say mid, I mean outside of the FT-like painted area.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject:

Everyone is of course free for their own opinions but if I could add a bit of clarification to the very recent posts pertaining to his shooting range / ability based on the available footage:

* Wilt did shoot face-up style jump shots, from mid range, even out slightly past the free throw line, and took these fairly often, from the college game and lower (like, HS). This applied to triple threat areas as well. It wasn't close to 3 point range, but it was much further out than his NBA range.

* All footage of Wilt once he reached the NBA shows him only shooting fall away style jump shots, from the low-block, to as far out as mid-post. His "fall away" movement is so dramatic that sometimes it makes it look like he shoots it from farther away because he sails way out sometimes nearly out of bounds but his feet at least STARTED with low post position right on the edge of where the 16 foot lane is - the fundamentally good low post spot, that was his favorite spot and he could get it every time due to his size and strength.


And if anyone wants my two cents on this fwiw, I believe Wilt disciplined himself to be a low-post specialist as per coaching influences and just his own rationale based on the rules of the NBA at the time because he was a smart player, he knew his physical advantages as he packed on size. He became so massive after college, and it's a "2 point" only era (unless you get fouled), so he learned to just plop right down there and establish in the post, and do ALL his offensive work from there. Yeah, I bet he could still have shot some of those free throw line extended jumpers and polished them up even better than he displayed in college if he'd stuck with developing his aptitude for them. But I bet he deliberately chose not to develop or even choose to shoot those shots anymore, and did what the rules of that era were clearly calling on him to develop. That deep inside game. I think he'd be open to developing slightly differently today if he saw other areas his skill could be used in these modern different sets of rules, assuming you picked him up at that college age.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:57 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:


Shaq won 4 rings in a much, much tougher era.


https://media1.tenor.com/images/861bacddcede7f561637a73e742b537d/tenor.gif?itemid=10264855

False. Why do you think Wilt only got 2 rings?

The Celtics with what, 5-6 HOFs won 1959-1966 then 1968 and 1969.

My eyes can't roll far enough man.

In that era, the Celts were more stacked top-to-bottom then the Warriors are today.
youngsters on this board are always talking about how GSW have dominated for the last 4 years and will probably dominate for the next 2-3 until salary cap issues or age force them apart.
well, that was those Celtics teams in Wilts era....x2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject:

When people say Wilt is stronger, bigger, blah blah than someone like AD my first question is always "who did Wilt play against that was anywhere near the player AD is?" The answer is no one. Who did Wilt play against that was anywhere near the player Shaq was? No one. Then go and list all the great bigs in Shaq's era and compare it to Wilts, it's pathetic.

It's not a slight against Wilt to bring that up but when you're watching him dominate players who wouldn't even make the NBA today it's not that impressive. Even the list of like Reed, Heyes, Bellamy, etc...honestly I don't think those guys would make the league today. Were they good for their era? Yeah but that doesn't mean really anything.

We KNOW what AD can do today against an entire league of players more athletic than anything Wilt played against and we KNOW what Shaq did to some of the best centers to ever play. If I go to the local Y and dominate a pickup game that doesn't mean I can play in the NBA it just means I'm playing against a bunch of random scrubs which is what the NBA - on average, was back then on average.

Kwame Brown would have been one of the best bigs in history if he played in the 60's / 70's.
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