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| How do you rate their first year? |
| Complete success. Mission accomplished. |
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22% |
[ 11 ] |
| Disaster. Mission failed. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| To be determined, need to wait until summer but more on the POSITIVE side. |
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71% |
[ 35 ] |
| To be determined, need to wait until summer but more on the NEGATIVE side. |
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6% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 49 |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: 1 Year Anniversary of Magic/Pelinka Front Office |
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Today is the 1 year anniversary of their ascent to the FO.
Notably, they did the following so far:
1. traded Lou for a 1st rounder
2. traded DLO/Moz for Brook Lopez/1st rounder.
3. 2017 draft: Kuzma, Hart, Bryant
4. let Nwaba go
5. signed KCP
6. traded JC/Nance for IT/Frye/Cavs 1st.
How do you rate their first full year so far?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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I voted TBD, but on the positive side.
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I voted TBD, but on the positive side. |
Me too.
If they strike out on even one max (PG most likely) then definitely a failure. Russell and Nance would have died for nothing. Don't care much for JC.
Edit: This reads wrong, sorry guys. If we get two maxes, success. One max, success. Zero max, failure.
Last edited by PRLakeShow on Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I voted TBD, but on the positive side. |
Me too.
If they strike out on even one max (PG most likely) then definitely a failure. Russell and Nance would have died for nothing. Don't care much for JC. |
I've moved on from DLO, so getting PG13 would be a mission accomplished summer, even if we paid a high price.
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eureca
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Joined: 18 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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You can't really rate them until we at least see what happens in the 2018 free agency. Their 2 biggest moves were dependent on that.
You can look at their 2017 draft selections. Even that is still early as it has only been slightly over half a season. Kuz/Hart definitely seem like steals. Lonzo has a lot of talent. Donovan Mitchell and Tatum were taken after so we will see how that works out.
We will also see if they hit something with Thomas Bryant. He was a 2nd rounder though. If they didn't hit with Thomas Bryant I wouldn't consider that a negative as most 2nd rounders probably won't be in the league for very long. |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22311
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Depends if we can or can't sign 2 max FAs |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| To be determined, need to wait until summer but more on the POSITIVE side |
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CabinCreek44
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 3855
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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TBD, neither positive nor negative. The Clarkson/Nance deal was good, but if we don’t sign at least one top notch FA this summer, and/or keep Isaiah Thomas, then that was just another cap space move that doesn’t advance the ball and guarantees another dismal campaign in 2018-19.
This summer remains huge. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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This is probably one of the more impactful summers in a while bc we have a new FO putting so much stake in it.
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Arbitrary
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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As long as we get PG while retaining Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Hart and (maybe) Randle, then I'll say it's a success. As it is right now, it's TBD (+) for me.
Now, if they can somehow trade Deng to get another max player...   |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I voted TBD, but on the positive side. |
Me too.
If they strike out on even one max (PG most likely) then definitely a failure. Russell and Nance would have died for nothing. Don't care much for JC. |
Yeah I agree withthis... but even then it's a slight TBD b/c they've gotten a lot more 2019 flexibility as well. But I'd shift from TBD/lean positive to TBD/lean negative if they got one max.
Zero maxes would be pretty negative. Two maxes would be strong positive, obviously. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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0 max = failure.
1 max = success, but mission not accomplished.
2 max = success.
That's the simple way I look at it.
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Arbitrary
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 0 max = failure.
1 max = success, but mission not accomplished.
2 max = success.
That's the simple way I look at it. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| TBD for me...I still can’t decide if more on positive side or negative side. It’s just TBD for me. |
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 0 max = failure.
1 max = success, but mission not accomplished.
2 max = success.
That's the simple way I look at it. |
I agree. My original response read like I meant that 1 max would be a failure. Whoops. |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I will state that I sometimes fear we are going after the wrong free agents class, thereby forcing us to drop cheap and talented young players to create cap space. I think 2020 is more important as far as FA classes go. Moreover, by that point, we'll be much more sure with what we have on our hands as far as young talent goes, the bad contracts would have expired, and while some of our guys are going to be gearing up for extensions, the cap space would be there and the team could make a firm decision then as to what the central pieces are/should be. |
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | I will state that I sometimes fear we are going after the wrong free agents class, thereby forcing us to drop cheap and talented young players to create cap space. I think 2020 is more important as far as FA classes go. Moreover, by that point, we'll be much more sure with what we have on our hands as far as young talent goes, the bad contracts would have expired, and while some of our guys are going to be gearing up for extensions, the cap space would be there and the team could make a firm decision then as to what the central pieces are/should be. |
Every year people say the same thing. The next free agent class is better. Guys sign extensions, get traded, injured, opt-in, and the such and poof, free agent class looks weak. Heck, look at this year. It was LeBron, PG, CP3, Westbrook, and Cousins. Now, it's just two of those guys. |
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Blackhart217
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Posts: 171
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Just TBD until summer, pretty much rides on the George sweepstakes. |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| PRLakeShow wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | I will state that I sometimes fear we are going after the wrong free agents class, thereby forcing us to drop cheap and talented young players to create cap space. I think 2020 is more important as far as FA classes go. Moreover, by that point, we'll be much more sure with what we have on our hands as far as young talent goes, the bad contracts would have expired, and while some of our guys are going to be gearing up for extensions, the cap space would be there and the team could make a firm decision then as to what the central pieces are/should be. |
Every year people say the same thing. The next free agent class is better. Guys sign extensions, get traded, injured, opt-in, and the such and poof, free agent class looks weak. Heck, look at this year. It was LeBron, PG, CP3, Westbrook, and Cousins. Now, it's just two of those guys. |
Sure, but realize that two of our targets this summer are guys with player options. We are entirely dependent on them deciding that they'd rather eschew a year of guaranteed money + one big fat contract next summer for one big fat contract now. Paul George had a career threatening injury just two seasons ago. How sure are you he wants to give up on 18 million now and then another 18 million for 5 years to...what, sign for 90 million now with a team worse than what he has now? LeBron? We're going to trust him? Really? Even if he comes, it won't be on a multi-year deal, meaning we are left to either cater to a player on the backend of their career (LOVE how that worked out with KB) or lose him and about half of our win total. Is PG happy then? Whose to say he won't sign a one-year flyer like LBJ, bank on the fact that he can keep healthy, and see if this is a team worth playing with, and then leaving if it is not. There's a lot of variables and my point is that I think it is dangerous to pursue less than a sure thing when that pursuit requires you to drop valuable assets now. Some patience and we enter 2020 with virtually all of the young talent we've lost (JC/Nance/DLO) and Moz/Deng still off the books.
The FO has made strong moves, received picks, cleared cap space and that's all well and good but it's come at the expense of talented young players and in pursuit of two older players in far superior situations than ours currently. 2020 and 21 have guys equally as talented as those two that will actually be younger.
It's a high risk/high reward strategy, and maybe you trust the team to get it done, but I don't trust Paul George and LBJ at all and, frankly, that is who we are banking on this summer. Not our FO. Not the rest of the team. We are pinning all our hopes on those two deciding to drop their options and come here...why? Because a dude whose missed half the season can make some fancy reads? Because better-Brian-Cook is, uhm, young? Because our 6'9" power forward is really good at scoring . . . in the post? Because of luke? Why are they coming? No one has actually made a convincing argument that LA is where they should be. Waiting until 2020 allows you to build that argument. |
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Arbitrary
Star Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 5788
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | I will state that I sometimes fear we are going after the wrong free agents class, thereby forcing us to drop cheap and talented young players to create cap space. I think 2020 is more important as far as FA classes go. Moreover, by that point, we'll be much more sure with what we have on our hands as far as young talent goes, the bad contracts would have expired, and while some of our guys are going to be gearing up for extensions, the cap space would be there and the team could make a firm decision then as to what the central pieces are/should be. |
Every year people say the same thing. The next free agent class is better. Guys sign extensions, get traded, injured, opt-in, and the such and poof, free agent class looks weak. Heck, look at this year. It was LeBron, PG, CP3, Westbrook, and Cousins. Now, it's just two of those guys. |
Sure, but realize that two of our targets this summer are guys with player options. We are entirely dependent on them deciding that they'd rather eschew a year of guaranteed money + one big fat contract next summer for one big fat contract now. Paul George had a career threatening injury just two seasons ago. How sure are you he wants to give up on 18 million now and then another 18 million for 5 years to...what, sign for 90 million now with a team worse than what he has now? LeBron? We're going to trust him? Really? Even if he comes, it won't be on a multi-year deal, meaning we are left to either cater to a player on the backend of their career (LOVE how that worked out with KB) or lose him and about half of our win total. Is PG happy then? Whose to say he won't sign a one-year flyer like LBJ, bank on the fact that he can keep healthy, and see if this is a team worth playing with, and then leaving if it is not. There's a lot of variables and my point is that I think it is dangerous to pursue less than a sure thing when that pursuit requires you to drop valuable assets now. Some patience and we enter 2020 with virtually all of the young talent we've lost (JC/Nance/DLO) and Moz/Deng still off the books.
The FO has made strong moves, received picks, cleared cap space and that's all well and good but it's come at the expense of talented young players and in pursuit of two older players in far superior situations than ours currently. 2020 and 21 have guys equally as talented as those two that will actually be younger.
It's a high risk/high reward strategy, and maybe you trust the team to get it done, but I don't trust Paul George and LBJ at all and, frankly, that is who we are banking on this summer. Not our FO. Not the rest of the team. We are pinning all our hopes on those two deciding to drop their options and come here...why? Because a dude whose missed half the season can make some fancy reads? Because better-Brian-Cook is, uhm, young? Because our 6'9" power forward is really good at scoring . . . in the post? Because of luke? Why are they coming? No one has actually made a convincing argument that LA is where they should be. Waiting until 2020 allows you to build that argument. |
If James and George agrees to a 1+1 P.O. deal with us, then wouldn't that still be good for us as it sets us up for 2019? |
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Cutheon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 12161
Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Arbitrary wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | I will state that I sometimes fear we are going after the wrong free agents class, thereby forcing us to drop cheap and talented young players to create cap space. I think 2020 is more important as far as FA classes go. Moreover, by that point, we'll be much more sure with what we have on our hands as far as young talent goes, the bad contracts would have expired, and while some of our guys are going to be gearing up for extensions, the cap space would be there and the team could make a firm decision then as to what the central pieces are/should be. |
Every year people say the same thing. The next free agent class is better. Guys sign extensions, get traded, injured, opt-in, and the such and poof, free agent class looks weak. Heck, look at this year. It was LeBron, PG, CP3, Westbrook, and Cousins. Now, it's just two of those guys. |
Sure, but realize that two of our targets this summer are guys with player options. We are entirely dependent on them deciding that they'd rather eschew a year of guaranteed money + one big fat contract next summer for one big fat contract now. Paul George had a career threatening injury just two seasons ago. How sure are you he wants to give up on 18 million now and then another 18 million for 5 years to...what, sign for 90 million now with a team worse than what he has now? LeBron? We're going to trust him? Really? Even if he comes, it won't be on a multi-year deal, meaning we are left to either cater to a player on the backend of their career (LOVE how that worked out with KB) or lose him and about half of our win total. Is PG happy then? Whose to say he won't sign a one-year flyer like LBJ, bank on the fact that he can keep healthy, and see if this is a team worth playing with, and then leaving if it is not. There's a lot of variables and my point is that I think it is dangerous to pursue less than a sure thing when that pursuit requires you to drop valuable assets now. Some patience and we enter 2020 with virtually all of the young talent we've lost (JC/Nance/DLO) and Moz/Deng still off the books.
The FO has made strong moves, received picks, cleared cap space and that's all well and good but it's come at the expense of talented young players and in pursuit of two older players in far superior situations than ours currently. 2020 and 21 have guys equally as talented as those two that will actually be younger.
It's a high risk/high reward strategy, and maybe you trust the team to get it done, but I don't trust Paul George and LBJ at all and, frankly, that is who we are banking on this summer. Not our FO. Not the rest of the team. We are pinning all our hopes on those two deciding to drop their options and come here...why? Because a dude whose missed half the season can make some fancy reads? Because better-Brian-Cook is, uhm, young? Because our 6'9" power forward is really good at scoring . . . in the post? Because of luke? Why are they coming? No one has actually made a convincing argument that LA is where they should be. Waiting until 2020 allows you to build that argument. |
If James and George agrees to a 1+1 P.O. deal with us, then wouldn't that still be good for us as it sets us up for 2019? |
Depending on numbers/Randle's contract, I presume so, yes. The FO could certainly sign LBJ/George to some smart deals like that to set themselves up for upcoming FA classes. But, depending on the money they get and the money our young talent is receiving at that point, it may get dicey. We have club options on Zo, Hart, and Kuz through 21. They are pretty cheap combined; same with BI. So it all sort of depends on the size and length of the deals, moving Deng, etc. Lot of moving parts to execute. (And, I didn't say this in my prior post, but part of my concern is that we are prepping a team to ultimately lose the Warriors; however, 2020 and on, i think it's pretty much an open field at that point.) |
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22311
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 0 max = failure.
1 max = success, but mission not accomplished.
2 max = success.
That's the simple way I look at it. |
I agree. |
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PRLakeShow
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | PRLakeShow wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | I will state that I sometimes fear we are going after the wrong free agents class, thereby forcing us to drop cheap and talented young players to create cap space. I think 2020 is more important as far as FA classes go. Moreover, by that point, we'll be much more sure with what we have on our hands as far as young talent goes, the bad contracts would have expired, and while some of our guys are going to be gearing up for extensions, the cap space would be there and the team could make a firm decision then as to what the central pieces are/should be. |
Every year people say the same thing. The next free agent class is better. Guys sign extensions, get traded, injured, opt-in, and the such and poof, free agent class looks weak. Heck, look at this year. It was LeBron, PG, CP3, Westbrook, and Cousins. Now, it's just two of those guys. |
Sure, but realize that two of our targets this summer are guys with player options. We are entirely dependent on them deciding that they'd rather eschew a year of guaranteed money + one big fat contract next summer for one big fat contract now. Paul George had a career threatening injury just two seasons ago. How sure are you he wants to give up on 18 million now and then another 18 million for 5 years to...what, sign for 90 million now with a team worse than what he has now? LeBron? We're going to trust him? Really? Even if he comes, it won't be on a multi-year deal, meaning we are left to either cater to a player on the backend of their career (LOVE how that worked out with KB) or lose him and about half of our win total. Is PG happy then? Whose to say he won't sign a one-year flyer like LBJ, bank on the fact that he can keep healthy, and see if this is a team worth playing with, and then leaving if it is not. There's a lot of variables and my point is that I think it is dangerous to pursue less than a sure thing when that pursuit requires you to drop valuable assets now. Some patience and we enter 2020 with virtually all of the young talent we've lost (JC/Nance/DLO) and Moz/Deng still off the books.
The FO has made strong moves, received picks, cleared cap space and that's all well and good but it's come at the expense of talented young players and in pursuit of two older players in far superior situations than ours currently. 2020 and 21 have guys equally as talented as those two that will actually be younger.
It's a high risk/high reward strategy, and maybe you trust the team to get it done, but I don't trust Paul George and LBJ at all and, frankly, that is who we are banking on this summer. Not our FO. Not the rest of the team. We are pinning all our hopes on those two deciding to drop their options and come here...why? Because a dude whose missed half the season can make some fancy reads? Because better-Brian-Cook is, uhm, young? Because our 6'9" power forward is really good at scoring . . . in the post? Because of luke? Why are they coming? No one has actually made a convincing argument that LA is where they should be. Waiting until 2020 allows you to build that argument. |
PG is signing long term. Even if he'll opt out in 2020, he'd resign with us. Just cashing in on the 10-year max.
If you have a problem with our FO finally giving a damn about winning then so be it. Live in the frantic MJST bubble. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 0 max = failure.
1 max = success, but mission not accomplished.
2 max = success.
That's the simple way I look at it. |
I can’t look at it so simply. It depends too much on the identity of the max FAs. For example, if we give max deals to PG and DAJ, I won’t be impressed. We would be a likely playoff team, but not a contender and not likely to grow into a contender. |
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PRLakeShow
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Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 10460
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 0 max = failure.
1 max = success, but mission not accomplished.
2 max = success.
That's the simple way I look at it. |
I can’t look at it so simply. It depends too much on the identity of the max FAs. For example, if we give max deals to PG and DAJ, I won’t be impressed. We would be a likely playoff team, but not a contender and not likely to grow into a contender. |
That kinda goes without saying. We could theoretically max Avery Bradley.  |
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