LA Lakers Should Add Kawhi Leonard to List of Superstar Targets
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scoobs
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject:

I think history shows that three elite defensive players gets it done. We would have that in James, Leonard and George. Hart seems to be on his way to being an elite defensive player and Ball is no slouch on the defensive end. I think the Lakers would include the Cavs pick to free up even more cap room and make the trade more even. Im not sure if I would want to part with Kuzma and I have concerns about Leonard's injury but if we could give up Deng in the process...its not a no brainer but something that the Lakers need to think about.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:

Eric, do you think it would be better for the Lakers to trade for Kahwii BEFORE or AFTER free agency? I would be concerned that George might not want to sign at that point because he would become the third banana to James and Leonard. On the other hand, we ensure that we get a star player and maybe we could use the George money for Klay in 2019?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:

The Lakers are in a good position now and should not make some foolish trades and decisions.
Leonard will be a FA inn 2019. Wait until then.
The Lakers should be in the playoffs next year with or without max players. Ingram, Lonzo will be stars. Kuzma when he learns defense. The young players are coming around fast and are a great future core. No sense messing things up now to create an old man team of max players who may not fit together.
The Lakers should try to keep certain players at reasonable contracts if they take them. Definitely Randle.
Try to keep KCP and IT at reasonable contract.
Lopez only if he takes what he is worth now and has gone down a lot.
And the main thing is don't give up first round draft picks to dump Deng. This is the most of stupidity.
The Lakers have made HUGE strides from last season.
Don't give it up by being too greedy and impatient.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
The Lakers are in a good position now and should not make some foolish trades and decisions.
Leonard will be a FA inn 2019. Wait until then.
The Lakers should be in the playoffs next year with or without max players. Ingram, Lonzo will be stars. Kuzma when he learns defense. The young players are coming around fast and are a great future core. No sense messing things up now to create an old man team of max players who may not fit together.
The Lakers should try to keep certain players at reasonable contracts if they take them. Definitely Randle.
Try to keep KCP and IT at reasonable contract.
Lopez only if he takes what he is worth now and has gone down a lot.
And the main thing is don't give up first round draft picks to dump Deng. This is the most of stupidity.
The Lakers have made HUGE strides from last season.
Don't give it up by being too greedy and impatient.
You have a great point. I dont really care if we trade Ingram, but I think Kuzma would be invaluable next to James and George. His ability to catch and shoot would be a great compliment with them. But the Lakers would really have to consider it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Let's not move the goalposts here; Oladipo was not supposed to be this good, and not even Indiana expected this. He wasn't considered to have as high of a ceiling as a guy like Ingram, and Oladipo was actually not even on his rookie deal anymore, like Ingram is. Sabonis probably had value commensurate with a late 1st round pick, as a decent young prospect, but certainly not an upper-level one.

In this case, you have another guy in Kawhi who, like PG, would be headed into the final year of his deal. Now, Kawhi is a tier up from PG, but I don't think they could reasonably ask for much more than one upper-tier young prospect in a deal. I think they could look for one such prospect and then another lesser young prospect, or, instead of another lesser prospect, perhaps another 1st round draft pick that isn't a premium pick.

Again, just my opinion, I think something like Ingram and the CLE pick (or the '19 pick, which could be traded after the draft) is fair. Ingram and Kuzma or Hart is about as far as I'd go if they wanted 2 young players. As Emplay suggests, if they would take Deng, I'd give up Kuzma and Ingram. If we could pull that off, we'd still have all our draft picks moving forward. That could be important in getting OKC to sign off on a trade for PG if he opts in, thus saving us almost $10MM this summer, which might enable us to keep Randle and still get LeBron too. Along with trading for Kawhi. I'm pretty sure all that could logistically work, if we go with Emplay's proposal involving Deng.

LeBron $35.35MM (full max)
PG $20.7MM
Kawhi $20.1MM
Randle $11MM (estimated year one salary of a 4-year deal)
Ball $7.5MM
Hart $1.7MM
Zubac $1.5MM
Bryant $1.4MM
4 min cap holds $3.3MM

This above team totals about $1.5MM too much. It's so close, though, that some minor modifications would make it work. Maybe one of Zubac or Bryant goes, likely involved in one of the trades. Maybe Randle's first-year salary is 500K to a million less. Maybe LeBron would take 500K less or something to make this happen. But this would be a sick team.

I also agree with Emplay that teams aren't going to be offering up two stud prospects for one year of Kawhi Leonard. Teams just don't do business like that anymore for rentals. And maybe the Lakers wouldn't have the best offer, that's possible. The Spurs certainly are under no obligation to move him to us if he's on the block, but if he really did indicate that he wants the Lakers, other teams might not offer much. As was mentioned in this thread, that seems to be what happened with PG, when teams simply didn't offer the farm for him.

I'll also state very clearly that I would not trade for Kawhi unless we did our due diligence (hopefully through back channel communication) on his injury. If there was doubt about the injury, particularly if his camp were to be tight-lipped about it, I wouldn't move forward with it.


we can trade our '19 pick before the draft since we have Cleveland's pick this year
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject:

i dont know the time when there will be a window for kawhi to be honest. this summer?we are supposed to go after lbj and pg. if we dont land them both ,we ll try for at least one and julius. in the mean while if things get out of control, san antonio will try to make a trade for kawhi but whats the price?ingram in a friendly and controlled contract for one year rental of kawhi? i think its risky.
And i dont think that many other teams will have the space and the will to give up assets. Trade deadline of winter 2019? for 3 months sale? i m not sure if a team will give a first round pick. So unless we are talking about summer 2019,
i dont think there is a market for such an all star player with one year or 3 months contract. I think the debate for kawhi , such as the debate for 2 max this summer is distracting everybody from our main focus who should be the development of our young core with smart moves.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject:

I like Kawhi as much as the next guy but the thought of losing BI, Kuzma, and probably JR for him hurts, especially without seeing to what extent he's recovered from his injury.

I doubt OKC does us any favors by agreeing to send George after he opts in which may allow us to keep JR through all this. And I doubt SA does us any favors either. Even with limited leverage, Pop isn't letting himself get pushed around on a deal, much like Pritchard didn't in a very similar situation.

And if we are to go by history, I'm glad we didn't end up sending JR for PG last summer, which was apparently on the table.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject:

greek laker wrote:
i dont know the time when there will be a window for kawhi to be honest. this summer?we are supposed to go after lbj and pg. if we dont land them both ,we ll try for at least one and julius. in the mean while if things get out of control, san antonio will try to make a trade for kawhi but whats the price?ingram in a friendly and controlled contract for one year rental of kawhi? i think its risky.
And i dont think that many other teams will have the space and the will to give up assets. Trade deadline of winter 2019? for 3 months sale? i m not sure if a team will give a first round pick. So unless we are talking about summer 2019,
i dont think there is a market for such an all star player with one year or 3 months contract. I think the debate for kawhi , such as the debate for 2 max this summer is distracting everybody from our main focus who should be the development of our young core with smart moves.
A huge plus out of this though is the fact that we would get to dump Deng and not have to pay him 7.4 million per year for the next 5 years to not even be on our roster. T
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject:

We are close to being a title team and on top of it adding LeBron/PG and Leonard? Iím guessing the NBA is feeling very scared... the league office is gonna have a lot of complaints to the league if we create a super mega team
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

[/quote]A huge plus out of this though is the fact that we would get to dump Deng and not have to pay him 7.4 million per year for the next 5 years to not even be on our roster. T[/quote]
at first i dont know where dos it come from, i mean that san antonio will
get deng in such a trade.but even if its true, even if we land george,kawhi and lbj, whats exactly is the point if we dont have at least 3 years contract with each one of them?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

greek laker wrote:
A huge plus out of this though is the fact that we would get to dump Deng and not have to pay him 7.4 million per year for the next 5 years to not even be on our roster. T[/quote]
at first i dont know where dos it come from, i mean that san antonio will
get deng in such a trade.but even if its true, even if we land george,kawhi and lbj, whats exactly is the point if we dont have at least 3 years contract with each one of them?[/quote]We would have a clean roster. No 7.4 million dead weight stretched player contract on it. James, George and Leonard will be under contract, for who knows how long or short, but we know James and George want to be here. Leonard probably does too. Imagine when we start winning? Plus, we would have their bird rights anyway. Just dumping Deng alone creates a lot of flexibility.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject:

1. Trade Deng, Ingram, Kuzma and Cavs pick to Spurs for Leonard and Paul.

2. Sign James for max contract starting at 35.3 million.

3. Renounce all free agents.

4. Trade Hart to Wolves for 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick.

5. Sign George for mac contract starting at 30.3 million.

6. Sign best players possible with minimum contracts, perhaps even Zubac and/or Bryant.

7. Sign best player possible with room exception, perhaps Lopez.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

scoobs wrote:
1. Trade Deng, Ingram, Kuzma and Cavs pick to Spurs for Leonard and Paul.

2. Sign James for max contract starting at 35.3 million.

3. Renounce all free agents.

4. Trade Hart to Wolves for 2019 lottery protected 1st round pick.

5. Sign George for mac contract starting at 30.3 million.

6. Sign best players possible with minimum contracts, perhaps even Zubac and/or Bryant.

7. Sign best player possible with room exception, perhaps Lopez.



Works for me!!

Ball
PG
Leonard
LBJ
Zubac/Vet big in the Zaza/Bogut mold

G Leaguers and gravy training vets for our bench
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject:

scoobs wrote:
greek laker wrote:
i dont know the time when there will be a window for kawhi to be honest. this summer?we are supposed to go after lbj and pg. if we dont land them both ,we ll try for at least one and julius. in the mean while if things get out of control, san antonio will try to make a trade for kawhi but whats the price?ingram in a friendly and controlled contract for one year rental of kawhi? i think its risky.
And i dont think that many other teams will have the space and the will to give up assets. Trade deadline of winter 2019? for 3 months sale? i m not sure if a team will give a first round pick. So unless we are talking about summer 2019,
i dont think there is a market for such an all star player with one year or 3 months contract. I think the debate for kawhi , such as the debate for 2 max this summer is distracting everybody from our main focus who should be the development of our young core with smart moves.
A huge plus out of this though is the fact that we would get to dump Deng and not have to pay him 7.4 million per year for the next 5 years to not even be on our roster. T


The Spurs arenít paying Deng, that is pure fantasy.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject:

I think BI is gonna be better than Dlo, and we will regret giving up on him a lot more- his shot is starting to drop.
This could just be KL's team playing hardball to ensure he gets the supermax.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
In this case, you have another guy in Kawhi who, like PG, would be headed into the final year of his deal. Now, Kawhi is a tier up from PG, but I don't think they could reasonably ask for much more than one upper-tier young prospect in a deal. I think they could look for one such prospect and then another lesser young prospect, or, instead of another lesser prospect, perhaps another 1st round draft pick that isn't a premium pick.


You aren't looking at it correctly. Eric is suggesting that the Spurs would take Ingram and Deng's contract for Leonard. They will get better offers than that. I expect that we would need to send them Ingram and Ball to compete.


I don't think they will get better offers than, necessarily, Ingram and a 1st or Ingram and a guy like Kuzma or Hart. I do not see teams offering up two talents like Lonzo and Ingram for a guy who has 1 year of team control left. Again, I'm not saying that another team couldn't outbid us. But Boston isn't going to have to offer up Tatum and Brown for one year of Kawhi, for example. For AD? Sure, maybe, because he has more than 1 year left. As Emplay says, teams no longer are willing to give up a crazy package for somebody who can reach free agency at the end of that season.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject:

This is how I hope it goes down and I will probably keep posting this on multiple threads till i "Speak it to Existence". I might even make it my signature:

With $47m in cap space this summer, Sign Paul George ($30m/yr), Seth Curry to about $22m for 3 years and Lopez for 1 more year ($8m).

Re-sign Randle to anywhere between $12-$15/yr, keep Deng for one more year and play him at spot minutes between the 3 and 4.

2018 Lakers
C - Zubac/Lopez/Bryant
F - Randle/Kuzma
F - Ingram/2018 Cavs 1st Round Pick/Deng (he's still better than Brewer)
G - PG13/J Hart/2nd round pick
G - Ball/Seth Curry (7-$8m/yr)/Carusso

Trade 2019 1st round pick and future 2nd round pick to offload Deng's final year. Sign Kawhi Leonard to the max (about $32m/yr)


2019 Lakers
C - Randle/Zubac/Bryant
F - Kawhi/Kuzma
F - Ingram/1st round pick, 2018/Wes Matthews (vet min)
G - PG13/J Hart/2nd Round pick
G - Ball/Curry/Carusso

2020 NBA Champs!


Last edited by Zubolo on Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:32 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Emplay, if Randle signs an offer sheet above his cap hold during the moratorium, does that impact the Lakers' cap space before matching? Or does it remain his cap hold?

In other words, could the Lakers use their cap space assuming no more than Randle's cap hold, at least for the 48 hour match period even though he's signed a bigger deal?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
In this case, you have another guy in Kawhi who, like PG, would be headed into the final year of his deal. Now, Kawhi is a tier up from PG, but I don't think they could reasonably ask for much more than one upper-tier young prospect in a deal. I think they could look for one such prospect and then another lesser young prospect, or, instead of another lesser prospect, perhaps another 1st round draft pick that isn't a premium pick.


You aren't looking at it correctly. Eric is suggesting that the Spurs would take Ingram and Deng's contract for Leonard. They will get better offers than that. I expect that we would need to send them Ingram and Ball to compete.


I don't think they will get better offers than, necessarily, Ingram and a 1st or Ingram and a guy like Kuzma or Hart. I do not see teams offering up two talents like Lonzo and Ingram for a guy who has 1 year of team control left. Again, I'm not saying that another team couldn't outbid us. But Boston isn't going to have to offer up Tatum and Brown for one year of Kawhi, for example. For AD? Sure, maybe, because he has more than 1 year left. As Emplay says, teams no longer are willing to give up a crazy package for somebody who can reach free agency at the end of that season.


You are ignoring my point. Eric's theory is that the Spurs would eat Deng's contract as part of the deal. I can imagine the Spurs making the deal for Ingram, but that isn't what Eric is talking about. When you factor in the Deng contract, the Spurs will get much better offers.

Scrubs like Kuzma and Hart will not move the needle in a deal like this. A first round pick won't move the needle, either, if we are expected to be a playoff team. Those sorts of pieces might be deal clenchers if we got really close, but we wouldn't be really close if the main course is Ingram + Deng's contract.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
Emplay, if Randle signs an offer sheet above his cap hold during the moratorium, does that impact the Lakers' cap space before matching? Or does it remain his cap hold?

In other words, could the Lakers use their cap space assuming no more than Randle's cap hold, at least for the 48 hour match period even though he's signed a bigger deal?


one other question Eric
what would our max cap space be if we stretched deng and just had randle's cap hold?
Could we sign two max guys around 30 and then take care of JR?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:12 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
You are ignoring my point. Eric's theory is that the Spurs would eat Deng's contract as part of the deal. I can imagine the Spurs making the deal for Ingram, but that isn't what Eric is talking about. When you factor in the Deng contract, the Spurs will get much better offers.

Scrubs like Kuzma and Hart will not move the needle in a deal like this. A first round pick won't move the needle, either, if we are expected to be a playoff team. Those sorts of pieces might be deal clenchers if we got really close, but we wouldn't be really close if the main course is Ingram + Deng's contract.


Calling them scrubs is a bit over the top. But I suppose if you mean to say they are just rotation quality that's fine. The point this misses though is that having players of that quality on cost controlled deals near the minimum is one of the highest values running, especially when player raises are outpacing inflation in the cap. For example, Brogden was talked about as a potential key piece in a Kyrie deal. Much of that was his performance to salary, not that he's a great player. Chandler Parsons was the same deal.

As for Kawhi, one can't forget that by the time he's trade eligible again he's an expiring. Offers will be set accordingly.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject:

i speculated that the spurs might consider deng if they're getting both kuz and ingram

I didn't suggest the lakers would do that - just pointed out that the math was possible

Randle takes up $12.4 mil of cap space - Lakers have until they officially match an offer - he takes up $12.4 mil after signing an offer sheet but on matching whatever his actual salary may be

Lakers don't have enough cap to keep randle and stretch deng and get lebron and george

math changes a bit if they go for a cheaper max player but best case they find a trade for deng w/picks if keeping randle is the goal

otherwise they have to probably let him go - assuming they get 2 stars
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject:

emplay wrote:
i speculated that the spurs might consider deng if they're getting both kuz and ingram

I didn't suggest the lakers would do that - just pointed out that the math was possible

Randle takes up $12.4 mil of cap space - Lakers have until they officially match an offer - he takes up $12.4 mil after signing an offer sheet but on matching whatever his actual salary may be

Lakers don't have enough cap to keep randle and stretch deng and get lebron and george

math changes a bit if they go for a cheaper max player but best case they find a trade for deng w/picks if keeping randle is the goal

otherwise they have to probably let him go - assuming they get 2 stars


That is assuming that Randle's doesn't first sign a deal with the Lakers for less than his cap-hold.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject:

emplay wrote:
i speculated that the spurs might consider deng if they're getting both kuz and ingram

I didn't suggest the lakers would do that - just pointed out that the math was possible

Randle takes up $12.4 mil of cap space - Lakers have until they officially match an offer - he takes up $12.4 mil after signing an offer sheet but on matching whatever his actual salary may be

Lakers don't have enough cap to keep randle and stretch deng and get lebron and george

math changes a bit if they go for a cheaper max player but best case they find a trade for deng w/picks if keeping randle is the goal

otherwise they have to probably let him go - assuming they get 2 stars


Right. And I think that the Spurs would probably rather just get Ingram plus something else and not take on Deng (in a theoretical Kawhi trade), since Deng's money would inhibit their chances of trying to retool on the fly, and I don't think they will just head into a tank/rebuild. I think we could still probably dump Deng onto a team like Atlanta, though, if we were willing to give up two 1st's. A team like that very clearly will not be contending for the next 2 seasons anyway, so the absorbing-cap-for-picks route makes sense for teams in that position.

And as to what AH was saying, I agree with the notion that the Spurs would need back a lot more compensation if Deng were included. But I think that an offer of, let's just say, Ingram and Kuzma or Hart for Kawhi is a pretty good get for the Spurs for one year of Kawhi. They'd have Ingram for 2 more years on a rookie deal, and Kuzma or Hart for 3 more. That's 5 years of cost-controlled young assets for one year of Kawhi, and, of course, they would have the right to control those players for even longer via the RFA process. They would also save money immediately on next year's cap, should they try to maneuver to make something happen to bring in a free agent or two.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject:

Randle sign early for less is funny to me, no offense
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