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King Nupe
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 Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:31 pm Post subject: Would the Lakers have made the playoffs... |
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| If Luke started Julius from day one? And if you believe that, should Luke be fired for costing us a winning season? |
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Day
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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It's really hard to say, there's a lot of variables that come into play and a lot of info that we're not entitled to know.
You could argue the fire Julius is playing with is because of him not starting and him understanding and accepting he has to play hard every night to earn and keep that spot.
I think when you look at how Byron would have done it and how Luke would have done it, their actions may have been the same but the way they go about doing it and the way they handle the player and talk to them is two worlds apart and that's what a lot of people were excited for with Luke coming in is that he would know how to keep the players happy and buying into the system even if he needed to show them some "tough love".
With Lonzo being injured as much as he is and the team having to adapt on the fly, and that huge loss streak, I don't think you can say the reason we don't make the playoff is because of Jules not starting early though. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt it and a second year with Luke and his staff is a big reason we have been more successful this season. Plus I won’t believe that not starting Julius was Luke’s choice.
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Too many factors tbh. We just don't know.
But this is not on Luke anyway. You would have to believe that it was 100% his decision to bring Randle off the bench and play him limited minutes. I do not believe that was Luke's decision. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Second guessing decisions with the benefit of hindsight seems like a great idea but is it productive?
I can just as easily second guess the decisions by the FO to not sign a legitimate vet PG and to undermine team chemistry with constant reminders that the main emphasis was next year and the two max plan. Basically it doesn’t really matter if you buy in and work your ass off. All are expendable!
At what point were the playoffs seriously a reality from a FO perspective anyways? Team is built to develop young players and prepare for next season’s free agency, not a playoff run. |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Nah.
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22
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Who knows but we certainly would have a better record rn IMO |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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No.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| If Randle had been playing at his current level all season, and if we had started him from day one, would we have won eight more games? No, that's not likely at all. We've been going through a relatively easy stretch of the schedule, and that probably contributes to the impression that the current team would make the playoffs. |
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DrumR
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I think we'd have at least 3 more wins. It was a bad decision imo and I said so here and on Twitter daily. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Additionally, despite what anyone says, Luke's #1 job is to develop the young players. Has Randle gotten better? Has Ingram gotten better? Has Ball gotten better? Yes to all of those. Heck, Kuzma is even playing some defense, even if his shooting has been awful. I'm sure we'll have plenty of Luke bashing threads, but I think he's done a pretty solid job. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Well, for the + on offense that Randle and Lopez have had lately..
Opponent 3pt% has been getting considerably worse...
And... do we even find out if Randle is a reliable switch defender against the NBA's elite if this happens? I don't really think so.
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LakergirlsFan710
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree.
Last edited by LakergirlsFan710 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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noahp45
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| If we had a closer then we would have Atleast be a 6 seed. We can still make the playoffs now. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree. |
Disagree. Zubac was coming off of a rough Vegas Pro League and didn't look like he was in shape. Hart was coming off of an injury and developing his 3pt. shot. I think the timing of Hart's and Zubac's emergence has been fine. It's not like Hart missed too much of the season. He was critical to wins in December.
Caruso and Ennis earned their backup PG PT from last season and from Vegas Pro League. I doubt Ingram was ready to play backup PG like he has been lately, starting from November/December. He had a few chances in December and never looked this good.
That just shows how much improvement the Lakers roster has gone through in the middle of the season. Rare quality.
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mookielala
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Day wrote: | It's really hard to say, there's a lot of variables that come into play and a lot of info that we're not entitled to know.
You could argue the fire Julius is playing with is because of him not starting and him understanding and accepting he has to play hard every night to earn and keep that spot.
I think when you look at how Byron would have done it and how Luke would have done it, their actions may have been the same but the way they go about doing it and the way they handle the player and talk to them is two worlds apart and that's what a lot of people were excited for with Luke coming in is that he would know how to keep the players happy and buying into the system even if he needed to show them some "tough love".
With Lonzo being injured as much as he is and the team having to adapt on the fly, and that huge loss streak, I don't think you can say the reason we don't make the playoff is because of Jules not starting early though. |
This is a pretty smart take. Of course, it's a hypothetical and impossible to tell, but I think JR learned something by earning his way into the start this year. |
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Beir32
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Luke is still learning how to be a head coach in this league much like his young players are learning how to be players in this league. Never understood why people said that he never really had to do anything while coaching Golden State while at the same time expecting him to come to LA and win a bunch of games with a bad/young team.
As for Randle I think Luke sees greatness in him. I'm not sure if him not starting Julius was so much bad coaching as much as it was making JR work for what he gets.
Last edited by Beir32 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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silkwilkes
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Kuzma was really killing it to start the season. Nance was playing great too before he got injured. So you can't tell at all.
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LakergirlsFan710
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree. |
Disagree. Zubac was coming off of a rough Vegas Pro League and didn't look like he was in shape. Hart was coming off of an injury and developing his 3pt. shot. I think the timing of Hart's and Zubac's emergence has been fine. It's not like Hart missed too much of the season. He was critical to wins in December.
Caruso and Ennis earned their backup PG PT from last season and from Vegas Pro League. I doubt Ingram was ready to play backup PG like he has been lately, starting from November/December. He had a few chances in December and never looked this good.
That just shows how much improvement the Lakers roster has gone through in the middle of the season. Rare quality. |
Caruso earned his minutes in summer league?? It was pretty obvious from the first few games he played that he had no business playing any minutes in the nba, and Ennis was starting games literally a couple weeks ago until somehow Walton finally realized he shouldn't get any minutes but garbage time either. |
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King Nupe
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree. |
And that's what I'm saying. If he had played Julius, Hart instead of Ennis, and Zubac instead of Bogut we would definitely have one more games |
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LakergirlsFan710
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| King Nupe wrote: | | LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree. |
And that's what I'm saying. If he had played Julius, Hart instead of Ennis, and Zubac instead of Bogut we would definitely have one more games |
The original question only mentioned Randle starting. If all the other changes are in effect from the start of the season, then yes Lakers would be in the playoff seeding now. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree. |
Disagree. Zubac was coming off of a rough Vegas Pro League and didn't look like he was in shape. Hart was coming off of an injury and developing his 3pt. shot. I think the timing of Hart's and Zubac's emergence has been fine. It's not like Hart missed too much of the season. He was critical to wins in December.
Caruso and Ennis earned their backup PG PT from last season and from Vegas Pro League. I doubt Ingram was ready to play backup PG like he has been lately, starting from November/December. He had a few chances in December and never looked this good.
That just shows how much improvement the Lakers roster has gone through in the middle of the season. Rare quality. |
Caruso earned his minutes in summer league?? It was pretty obvious from the first few games he played that he had no business playing any minutes in the nba, and Ennis was starting games literally a couple weeks ago until somehow Walton finally realized he shouldn't get any minutes but garbage time either. |
Yeah, he did. He showed well and actually earned his contract because of it.
As for the minutes in the NBA thing, he's coming from the G-League. Just because Brandon Ingram looked like a deer in headlights his first month at Duke, doesn't mean he didn't belong in the NBA.
The only reason why Ennis has been on the team is because he ended last season with surprisingly hot shooting. It didn't carry into this season, but that doesn't mean the Lakers should have dropped him right at the season start either.
This is a development team. I'd even argue that the entire roster 1-15 (including Nance and Clarkson) has had the most individual improvement compared to all other teams at the NBA level. Just because Lonzo shoots like garbage the first two months of the season, doesn't mean he doesn't belong. Just because Kuzma has hit the rookie wall in the past two months doesn't mean he doesn't belong. Just because Caruso and Thomas Bryant haven't adjusted to NBA speed just yet, doesn't mean they don't belong either. Both guys have dominated the G-League for too long and have made it look far too easy.
And even if Caruso and Ennis weren't on the team, what's the solution? Play Ingram at backup PG only to have Corey Brewer get more minutes? I appreciate his enthusiasm and catch the small plays that he makes, but I wouldn't call that a solution either.
You're anti Walton, and frankly I don't understand why. And what, the best solution is Fizdale who didn't show this kind of individual improvement 1-15 with his Grizzlies roster last season?
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Being on the bench could have been what made Randle step up his game..
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| King Nupe wrote: | | LakergirlsFan710 wrote: | | With just that change alone the lakers still wouldn't be in the playoffs. Walton seems to be a bad judge of players since he also kept Zubac out of the lineup until recently and didn't give Hart enough minutes early in the season either all while giving playing time to Carusso or Ennis. I've been calling for Walton's head for most of the year for these and more reasons but it seems like the Laker organization doesn't agree. |
And that's what I'm saying. If he had played Julius, Hart instead of Ennis, and Zubac instead of Bogut we would definitely have one more games |
Disagree again. Everyone is looking at Julius and Lopez being + in offensive rating, but hasn't paid attention to the very obvious defensive rating drop since both have started. Nevermind the poor opponent 3ptFG%, where the Lakers were at least among the top teams in the league earlier this season.
It's a compromise. Offense for defense.
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Beir32
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | Being on the bench could have been what made Randle step up his game.. |
Not saying it definitely was the reason but it makes sense to speculate. I've always been a big fan of JR's game but frustrated by his maddening lack of consistency. Perhaps a little motivation is just what he needed. |
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