Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject:
I viewed Luke's decision to start Nance as prioritizing defense, and more importantly having a voice on the floor to keep the defense organized while the rest of the team was still trying to learn the fundamentals. Kuzma caught fire the first couple months of the season as well, which squeezed Randles PT further, and pushing him to the 5.
We did see a lot of Randle at center even if it meant going up against Gortat or some other oversized ogre instead of putting Brook on it. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it failed.
I'd say an imbalanced roster had a lot more to do with us not making the playoffs than who started.
And as to the other OP question - no, Luke frustrates me sometimes with his rotations but this team is developing and he most definitely should not be fired.
I’m certain that it wasn’t Lukes call to start Deng in the first game...that was the FO trying to build some value to hopefully trade him off. After those 15 minutes it was apparent that he was just hurting us and we never saw him again.
So no, you don’t fire someone who has established a culture of hustle and excitement because he didn’t start the optimal lineup from day 1...no one is perfect and it probably wasn’t his call.
I think young players taking a while to gel is a reason for not making the playoffs, but the biggest reason is that we are in the west. Besides who wants to be in the 8th spot when you aren't ready. The Warriors are just going to destroy you anyway.
As for the anti-Luke crowd. Get a life. Luke is actually doing a decent job with what he has. I'm not saying that he is a junior Phil Jackson. But he has this team playing defense, a lot of the time, and moving the ball well on offense.
I doubt it and a second year with Luke and his staff is a big reason we have been more successful this season. Plus I won’t believe that not starting Julius was Luke’s choice.
I agree about the continuity helping but disagree it wasn't Luke's choice. _________________ Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi
Last edited by Car54 on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:11 pm Post subject:
PICKnPOP wrote:
Starting to think like was forced to start nance in order to boost his trade value
He started the season with quite a few double doubles. Even in their scoring system in practice... LNJ was at the top of the leaderboard. He earned his PT. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Starting to think like was forced to start nance in order to boost his trade value
He started the season with quite a few double doubles. Even in their scoring system in practice... LNJ was at the top of the leaderboard. He earned his PT.
Interesting. I’m not trying to take anything away from nance because I thought he should have started last season. I just don’t think they all of a sudden decided to start him for basketball reasons this season. Especially when randle clearly came into training camp having accomplished everything they asked of him.
I know you have more insight on this than I do though so I’ll take your word for it. Magic did say that nance was the teams secret weapon last year so maybe he really believed that at one point.
It's rarely just one thing. The Julius situation is just a single component. Lonzo struggling while adjusting to the speed of the NBA and Lonzo getting injured once he had turned the corner also hampered our playoff possibilities. If the season started today we would probably make the playoffs with the way the team has progressed. Luke actually deserves lots of credit for getting the team to buy into the defense first mindset. IMHO the Lakers easily make the playoffs next year, big FO or not.
No, Randle's current play isn't the same as the beginning of the season. Sometimes being on the bench opens the game for you. In this case I think it did wonders for his game. He earned his starting spot and he hasn't looked back since besides a few games where he tried to take on the whole team.
I don't know if it was Luke or if it was just him finally realizing what he can and can't do well, but he's a much different player than last year. The numbers maybe similar but he's much more of a team player. He doesn't force his way to double doubles. I personally love his game right now, I felt the complete opposite last year and early on in the season.
During the stretch of games where we were winning, our defense was top 5, we assisted a lot of shots and there wasn't really anyone playing outside of their game.
I personally think Luke is doing one hell of a job.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35750 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:22 pm Post subject:
Lonzo being injured was a bigger factor. But even then we'd still be 3 or 4 games back. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
if there was an urgency, if there was the belief in the team, stuff, players
that every game matters, then yes maybe we could have gotten 4-5 wins more.
i dont think that you need julius or lebron or durant to win against suns, grizzlies, dallas.
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:28 am Post subject:
no offense but your question is kind of BS, it is totally leading.
How about did Randle get this good because of the pressure Luke put on him?
That is a much more likely scenario than your one of doom and gloom and fire the guy who messed with the player I love sooooo much. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Who knows ! I avoid placing much blame on players or coaches from thoughts gathered while imagining alternate outcomes and realities. We know only what we see. Hell, if Julius had been a starter from day one, he may be wilted in the main unit and floundered - not prospered - in February.
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:51 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Wino wrote:
no offense but your question is kind of BS, it is totally leading.
How about did Randle get this good because of the pressure Luke put on him?
That is a much more likely scenario than your one of doom and gloom and fire the guy who messed with the player I love sooooo much.
If you missed the preseason I can see where you would ask that.
Watched it all. But I have always felt that Randle was streaky and inconsistent. At least until this season. Now I feel he has gotten through that. Honestly feel like he has stepped up big time this season and become a solid player on both sides of the ball. I do think that Luke put some pressure on him and this is how he responded. Couldn't ask for more and my hope is that the FO sees it too.
Kind of seems why they traded Nance instead of Randle. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
I think this was all the plan. Starting Larry was a showcase. Lakers knew they are not winning this year. Their focus was clearing space from day 1. I think they decided a while ago Julius was going to be their guy. In the end it probably helped Julius ease into his now cemented role.
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Would the Lakers have made the playoffs...
King Nupe wrote:
If Luke started Julius from day one? And if you believe that, should Luke be fired for costing us a winning season?
Nah. early on I recall JR deserved coming off the bench. May have actually made him better.
Our playoff chances were ruined during a 19 game span where we played like poo overall that had us go 3-16 (we had some injuries too). We were 11-27 at that point and a lot of folks were wondering if we were the worst team in the league.
If we were, say, 7-12 during that span we'd at least be in the hunt right now.
Also, just for memorializing...we've had basically 3 different seasons so far (in one season) and are now entering our 4th:
First 19 games, 8-11 (this prompts rob pelinka to express how we are in the hunt for a playoff spot and that quote was used on a 710 espn commercial bit over and over for awhile)
Next 19 games, 3-16 (this prompts LG to almost lose its collective mind; DB powers through game summaries of frustrating games; mods work overtime to keep people from jumping out windows)
Last 19 game stretch: 12-7. (The flame of hope rekindled)
We are now 3 games into our next 19 games and so far so good, 3-0.
I primarily place this on youth, injuries and having a young head coach who is also figuring stuff out...not on Randle being benched earlier in the year.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:59 pm Post subject:
Good points. Could we have won more if Randle started from the beginning? Sure. Could we have lost more? Sure. I didn’t care if it was Randle or Nance starting, my complaint was the <20 minute games Randle had. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
no offense but your question is kind of BS, it is totally leading.
How about did Randle get this good because of the pressure Luke put on him?
That is a much more likely scenario than your one of doom and gloom and fire the guy who messed with the player I love sooooo much.
If you missed the preseason I can see where you would ask that.
Watched it all. But I have always felt that Randle was streaky and inconsistent. At least until this season. Now I feel he has gotten through that. Honestly feel like he has stepped up big time this season and become a solid player on both sides of the ball. I do think that Luke put some pressure on him and this is how he responded. Couldn't ask for more and my hope is that the FO sees it too.
Kind of seems why they traded Nance instead of Randle.
It’s hard for me to credit lukes pressure over simple maturation and development. Maybe theres a little of both there.
Can't really discredit Luke for something and credit him for the rest.
How I see it, Julius doesn't get to this point without his early season struggles. We've all seen significant improvement of his game and his effort. Clearly there's still room for improvement, but Walton has definitely gotten through to Julius this season.
I mean it's a team wide thing at this point. Every single player has improved it seemed - BI, Zo, Kuz, Hart, Zu are all playing at a higher level. It's not a coincidence. Whatever the coaching staff is doing is working.
Can't really discredit Luke for something and credit him for the rest.
How I see it, Julius doesn't get to this point without his early season struggles. We've all seen significant improvement of his game and his effort. Clearly there's still room for improvement, but Walton has definitely gotten through to Julius this season.
I mean it's a team wide thing at this point. Every single player has improved it seemed - BI, Zo, Kuz, Hart, Zu are all playing at a higher level. It's not a coincidence. Whatever the coaching staff is doing is working.
Giving Luke credit is frowned upon by most Laker fans...
Lonzo Ball
KCP
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Brook Lopez
starting lineup is 6-1 and has played the 3rd best defense in the league.
It was also our best statistical lineup that got any kind of significant minutes back when Luke didn't utilize it as much as he should have.
If you wanna go by that, then yes you could make the argument that our record could be better and we'd have a better shot at the playoffs. But we'd need to be about 7 wins better than where we currently are to have even a chance at the playoffs unless we end the season on one of the best runs in recent memory (like us only losing 5 more games maximum from this point on kind of run). _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Joined: 04 May 2017 Posts: 3077 Location: The Left Coast
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:54 am Post subject:
MJST wrote:
The
Lonzo Ball
KCP
Brandon Ingram
Julius Randle
Brook Lopez
starting lineup is 6-1 and has played the 3rd best defense in the league.
It was also our best statistical lineup that got any kind of significant minutes back when Luke didn't utilize it as much as he should have.
If you wanna go by that, then yes you could make the argument that our record could be better and we'd have a better shot at the playoffs. But we'd need to be about 7 wins better than where we currently are to have even a chance at the playoffs unless we end the season on one of the best runs in recent memory (like us only losing 5 more games maximum from this point on kind of run).
Yeah, disappointed that this lineup wasn't utilized much. I feel like the preseason wasn't capitalized on to try different lineups.
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