is Smush's/Sasha's De that Bad or is it The Team Defense?????

 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: is Smush's/Sasha's De that Bad or is it The Team Defense?????

You already know my answer. its Team defense.

I want everyone that keeps saying that smush cant guard his man. to watch the game closer.

anyone notice if its one on one with NO pick coming. smush is pocking the ball. you ever notice that? I have. or its a questionable call(no touch rule on the perimeter)

Any other time smush gets beat. its because he gets PICKED OFF. NO ONE, i'll say it again. NO ONE. can guard their man by themselves if they are getting picked to death, and their is a NO TOUCH rule out on the perimeter. on top of Smush getting picked. he's getting illegally Picked most nights. Push picked. that makes it 10 times worse. How is he supposed to keep up with some quick guard going around their bigman? He's not. So stop asking.

what we should be asking for is more TEAM DEFENSIVE CHEMISTRY. amongst the lakers. prime example. Kobe gets 6+ steals a few games ago. But against ATL he hops in the lane to steal it. his man goes the other way. Why isn't anyone covering for Kobe? because they do not yet understand how he plays Lesser opponents without superstar Guards. he roams. I know that. almost everyone on LG knows that. But the lakers dont know that. If they did, they would cover for him.

The reason some of your favorite 2guards can get out and get that run out steal. is because their teams understand that their guy is going to play the lane tonight. so they stay back to cover. I if jump at a guy one way, and you are helping me trap, of course the guy is going to go the other way. why would you Jump with me the same way i went. to leave this guy wide open to drive? Bad Chemistry on Defense.

Now Luke Walton. he just cant stop anyone with foot speed and quickness alone at all. nothing we can do about that. Vujacic aint the fastest of guys, but he can play some real good man up defense. But so what, if the opponent is going to Pick him off all night long.

STop saying Vujacic and/or Smush cant guard quick pg's. NO one can guard quick pg's coming off a push pick. we cried and they heard us. we said "stop going under the screens". guess what? Smush hasn't gone under the screen in a good 20 games. but this is why Smush will get abused or at least it seem like that night in and night out. he's always 1 step behind his man after chasing him around a pick. thats not the PG's fault. thats Team defense folks.
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Sister Golden Hair
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject:

Smush has the tools, but lacks the head game. He plays too tight waaay out on the perimeter (and when his opponent get past him, pandemonium breaks out). He gambles a bit too much for steals. He doesn't always play "hungry." But you're right that the team schemes also let him down. I don't see a lot of talking out there, and the bigs, especially Kwame, don't seem to know the rotations or lack the footsped to make them adequately (Cook, sometimes Mihm).

If the Lakers had a feared shotblocker behind the gambling guards, they would look a whole lot better. Mihm can't stay on the floor enough, and isn't an elite swatter to begin with (good, not great).

SGH
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject:

Both....
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject:

I recognize, both, Sasha, and Smush, for having the quick hands, but that's about it... They may have fast legs, but they don't use them correctly, for defense. I see players that can't move their feet, to gain position on their man... I mean, I see this happening, without any picks.

It's the lack of fundamentals, that is killing us, on defense... Even Stu Lantz, and his partner, were commenting, during the game... Smush was not even putting his hands up, in the shooter's face. Smush, and Sasha were not the only ones, but they stand out, for me, because gaining position is so important to me. It is an artform that has to be practiced... You can tell, when a player hasn't even been practicing it, or has never even learned it. Other players seemed to be giving a less than 100% effort, on defense.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject:

Smush needs to learn how to raise his damn hands.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:17 pm    Post subject:

Smush and Sasha are basically rookies, and they basically suck
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject:

At one point we had Sasha, Luke and Cook on the court at the same time. Watching those guys going up against the much quicker and athletic Hawks team was like watching a Hyundai trying to go up against a Corvette. I don't care what kind of defensive scheme you run, you can have John Wooden coaching these guys 24/7, they still won't be able to defend.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:01 pm    Post subject:

no, they are what they are, two pieces of crap
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject:

TACH wrote:
Both....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:04 pm    Post subject:

What's a de?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject:

Both. Smush plays too tight and doesn't maximize his length. Sasha compensates with intensity and effort and gets him cheap fouls.

Add to that a foul-prone Mihm (who luckily hasn't been so foul prone, just injury-prone now), Kwame who rotates poorly, Cook who isn't really a shotblocker, and Bynum who either rotates well and blocks or gets lost defensively, and it's no reason why the Lakers give up so many layups.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject:

Sasha shows effort and might eventually get it. He should be in the D-League right now. Smush is a reserve at best, and he shows no effort on D.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:27 pm    Post subject:

It's all of the above plus a bit more.

The defense (individual and team) has been pathetic lately.

Statistically the Laker defense has shown a turn for the worse.

In the last 10 losses we allowed an average of 106.8 pts/gm compared with 95.5 pts/gm in the previous 16 losses during the earlier part of the season. This (additional 11.3 pts/gm allowed) is an astounding number considering the Lakers offensive point production of only 98.3 per game. We were also number one for quite a while in 3 PT% allowed and today we are 8th allowing 33.7% in 3-PT shots.

What is the reason for the decline? There are many possible reasons.

Firstly, it is hard to blame youth, ignorance, or learning curve since this same team produced pretty good defensive numbers in the earlier half of the 52 games already played.

Lack of effort is definitely a big factor. Whether it is James Worthy on road games or Jack Haley on home games, they both have exposed lack of effort and bad decision making on the defensive end from most of the players including Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, Brian Cook, Sasha, Luke, even from Lamar and Kobe.

Are they tired and poorly conditioned? Well, it certainly cannot be discounted. After all tough defense requires constant movement, good footwork, and conditioning plays a part in that. Also, observe that they only trap on the backcourt during the end or key moments today compared to when the team used to do more of the trap throughout the game.

Are the coaches focusing too much on the offense - ball movement? triangle aptitude? shot selection? balance?
and putting less emphasis on the real problem which is this tremendous decline in defense? You have to figure that at least one of the coaches are aware of the 106.8 pts/gm allowed during the last 10 losses, right? Too relaxed, too lenient, or too much Zen?

Are we gambling more on defense? Trying to get a steal too many times when all that is needed is to stay in front of the opponent.

Do we do a poor job of scouting the opponent, how to stop their play makers? I heard Mark Cuban state in an interview that the Mavs even scout referees as to their tendencies, and how they call a game so they can prepare for it.

Another area to look at is the idea that "a good offense can turn into a good defense". Besides the terrible number of points allowed during the last 10 Laker losses, the Laker 3-PT shooting has been pathetic both in number of shots taken and 3-PT%. In the recent 10 losses the Lakers have taken an average of 26.4 attempts and made an average of only 7.7 shots accounting for a 29.2 %. Usually a missed 3-PT attempt turns into a bad offensive moment unless the team got an offensive rebound.

The good news is that this current trend (defensive decline) appears easier to solve than solving offensive problems because this team has posted solid defensive numbers in the earlier half of the season. Let us hope the coaches and the players wake up, begin to understand the real problem for this team, and make a commitment and the priority to keep improving the defense. If the team just gets back to allowing the 95.5 pts/gm during the first 16 losses we will be in good shape, will win a majority of our remaining games, and get into the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject:

Sister Golden Hair wrote:
Smush has the tools, but lacks the head game. He plays too tight waaay out on the perimeter (and when his opponent get past him, pandemonium breaks out). He gambles a bit too much for steals. He doesn't always play "hungry." But you're right that the team schemes also let him down. I don't see a lot of talking out there, and the bigs, especially Kwame, don't seem to know the rotations or lack the footsped to make them adequately (Cook, sometimes Mihm).

If the Lakers had a feared shotblocker behind the gambling guards, they would look a whole lot better. Mihm can't stay on the floor enough, and isn't an elite swatter to begin with (good, not great).

SGH


Pretty much see it the same except maybe I like Mihm a bit more than you.

I love Smush, he has the athletic ability to be a better defender, but as you astutely point out, he overplays ridiculously on the perimeter and gets beat badly a lot. He is no Chucky Atkins, but he isn't exactly a lockdown defender either. If he was, he could be a very intriguing player...because his offense is pretty darn good.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject:

DocK36 wrote:
At one point we had Sasha, Luke and Cook on the court at the same time. Watching those guys going up against the much quicker and athletic Hawks team was like watching a Hyundai trying to go up against a Corvette. I don't care what kind of defensive scheme you run, you can have John Wooden coaching these guys 24/7, they still won't be able to defend.


Exactly

Why have the Lakers morphed to a team that is trying to fit these kind of non-athletic, low upside players into the mix.

At least Cook can shoot.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject:

DocK36 wrote:
At one point we had Sasha, Luke and Cook on the court at the same time. Watching those guys going up against the much quicker and athletic Hawks team was like watching a Hyundai trying to go up against a Corvette. I don't care what kind of defensive scheme you run, you can have John Wooden coaching these guys 24/7, they still won't be able to defend.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
DocK36 wrote:
At one point we had Sasha, Luke and Cook on the court at the same time. Watching those guys going up against the much quicker and athletic Hawks team was like watching a Hyundai trying to go up against a Corvette. I don't care what kind of defensive scheme you run, you can have John Wooden coaching these guys 24/7, they still won't be able to defend.


Exactly

Why have the Lakers morphed to a team that is trying to fit these kind of non-athletic, low upside players into the mix.

At least Cook can shoot.


I disagree totally. These players (collectively) may not be the most athletic or gifted but this is the same team that in the first 16 losses have allowed 95.5 pts/game and in 34-games played was leading the league in 3-PT % allowed to less than 30%. Unfortunately for the possible reasons mentioned in my earlier post, they have declined in their last 10 losses by allowing an astounding 106.8 pts/gm (11.3 pts/gm more in recent losses) and allowed 42.3 3-PT% during those losses.

This is not simply lack of talent but a combination of lack of effort, wrong priorities, poor conditioning, and even poor-shot selection (too many missed 3 point attempts presents opportunities for the opponents).
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject:

pgbball - you said some interesting and valid observations:

"Firstly, it is hard to blame youth, ignorance, or learning curve since this same team produced pretty good defensive numbers in the earlier half of the 52 games already played. Lack of effort is definitely a big factor."

** These guys appeared mentally/physically fatiqued that have made them flat-footed and prompted bad decisions!! With rookies and/or young players who have not played prominent roles on their previous teams (i.e. Smush, Mihm, KBrown, Sasha, Bynum, Turiaff, etc.), they are learning how much it takes in conditioning, mental toughness, basketball IQ, etc. to win consistently. This can only be realized by going through the experience and (unfortunately) the bad games. In the past, players such as Fox/GP/Horry/DFish/Malone/etc. know what to do to win and just had to worry about meshing with Kobe/Shaq. PJ has warned them to stay in shape during the break! When PJ is calling TOs for Kobe to get some rest before his PTs?!?!?!

"Are the coaches focusing too much on the offense - ball movement? triangle aptitude? shot selection? balance?"
** Some of the defensive problems are on the "run-outs" caused by not executing their offense properly that resulted in not having the proper defensive balance to defend.

"Are we gambling more on defense? Trying to get a steal too many times when all that is needed is to stay in front of the opponent."
** When one is tired, players are starting to reach instead of moving their feet to stay in front of their opponent.

"Do we do a poor job of scouting the opponent, how to stop their play makers?"
** The Lakers have EXCELLENT coaches that have won 3 titles (i.e. Rambis, BShaw, Hamblen - along with Kareem!)

"In the recent 10 losses the Lakers have taken an average of 26.4 attempts and made an average of only 7.7 shots accounting for a 29.2 %. Usually a missed 3-PT attempt turns into a bad offensive moment unless the team got an offensive rebound."
** As Stu has stated, only Kobe/LO can create their own shots consistently while the others are spot shooters. It would be great if players like Cookie faked the outside shot and drove the paint (as he did during the Hawks game) that would provide more space for their regular shots. Also, these shooters can "step" into their shots and/or pass to somebody else who have a 12' to 15' shots

"The good news is that this current trend (defensive decline) appears easier to solve than solving offensive problems because this team has posted solid defensive numbers in the earlier half of the season."
** Agreed. Hopefully these young players will get their necessary rest to think clearly on their decision process on defense and offense.

We all hope that once they get into the playoffs, where the intensity increases 100fold - they will have the energy/discipline to advance 1 or 2 rounds?!?!?!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject:

I think you brought up a lot of solid points. Let me add that I think a lot of teams and coaches figured out our weakness and attack it accordingly. Now whenever Luke is in the game, you'll see his man get the ball right away and attack him one on one. They also know our guys rotate and recover very poorly, thus you see opposing team more patient and make that extra pass which almost always result in a decent look.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject:

it's the lack of effort and energy, it seems that the lakers don't prepare themselves for the game, like a warm-up or not being healthy.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject:

everybody on this team has had at least 10 games where they were simply too lazy. Kobe is back to last years turnstyle in some games. He is not horrible but he is average. One good game here, one terrible game there...
Smush is garbage on defense. His lateral quickness is below average and if his offense is not there, his D is absolutely non existent. He is all in all a matador. Sasha has the effort but thats where it ends. He gets beaten off the dribble WITH EASE and I would guess he has the most reach in fouls I have ever seen. Even dumb fouls 50 ft. away from the basket are Sasha´game.
Kwame is inconsistent. Lamar is horrible, Mihm is horrible, Gump is solid but gets burned here and there too. All in all this team has NO ONE who comes out EVERY NIGHT to play ferocious defense. NOBODY and thats why teams drop 100+ every night. This team is not any better than last years team. All 3 pointers and horrible defense.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:32 am    Post subject:

It's both. I don't really think that anyone is that capable of guarding one on one in the game today, players are just too quick. Fighting the picks and good close-out defense usually gets the job done, which then again Smush and Sasha DON'T DO. They constantly cheat the picks and don't get back to their man in time. Kobe does the same. How often do you see Kobe fight a pick? He usually goes around it or switches.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:42 am    Post subject:

Smush makes me mad because he has the body to be a solid defender. Good point about putting his hands up, he has close to a 7 foot wingspan, he has to use that for something besides risking a reach in foul to pickup one steal in a game. Sasha is active but makes any team running the pick and roll look like Utah in their day. At least Sasha is learning and still has some room to grow, you'd think as many times as Smush has been cut he'd put forward more effort on the defensive end.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
Smush makes me mad because he has the body to be a solid defender. Good point about putting his hands up, he has close to a 7 foot wingspan, he has to use that for something besides risking a reach in foul to pickup one steal in a game. Sasha is active but makes any team running the pick and roll look like Utah in their day. At least Sasha is learning and still has some room to grow, you'd think as many times as Smush has been cut he'd put forward more effort on the defensive end.


True Sasha's biggest problem is the damn pick & pop. Other than that his defense isn't that bad. Smush has the same problem but he reaches in too much. He needs to run at the shooter as well he has the reach advantage on any guard.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:36 am    Post subject:

Smush has no D whatsoever

Sasha makes an effort bit he's just Sasha ( at least I have seen him giving his best on D and that's good )

Cook just can't be a starting PF in the west (althought he's a good shooter) cuz he can't defend noone

Mihm just gets in foul trouble

kwame can't rotate

and Lamar, he's just being himself

We definately have Defensive issues that if not solved or improved = lottery
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