Will Kobe's OSCAR help or hurt us in free agency?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Rape case against him has been highlighted today more than it has ever been in the last 10 years put together though. So I don't know if it has been entirely positive regarding his legacy. Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt reading the case and the fact that accuser was caught lying. But many don't look to educate themselves and throw around the rapist world including many in the media. Not to mention the whole trauma due to the case ended up in them losing a child. Hating the witch-hunt against Kobe in the media right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/us/papers-reveal-new-details-in-kobe-bryant-rape-case.html


People are disgusting and vindictive. That case played out very publicly (15 years ago) and it was settled. Now people want to be mad over some (bleep) he had no control over. He didn't nominate himself for an Oscar. He didn't vote himself a winner. I am so over this metoo/time's up nonsense.


I'll be perfectly candid - I admire his basketball accomplishments, but his involvement in the Colorado events are disgusting to me. I'm a husband, a father of 2 kids, and have been a civil litigation attorney for 20 years.

Like it or not, Kobe admitted that he engaged in sexual activity without the accuser's consent. His own public statement reads:

Quote:
First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.

I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.


Although the Academy and much of Hollywood acted quickly to denounce Harvey Weinstein, Casey Affleck, James Woods, and many others, it seems odd to see so many in the industry embracing Bryant. (And it's still confusing to me that the Academy has said nothing about director Roman Polanski and his guilty plea to having sex with a minor.)

I understand that many people think that Kobe has "reformed," and point to him being a more devoted husband and father, and being more politically outspoken, since that time. If that is indeed the case, then I hope his efforts continue to help others.

Was Kobe a great basketball player? Absolutely. One of the best to ever suit up and play the game? Definitely.

But I won't automatically praise him for what he does off of the basketball court, either - even with an Oscar. Like an article in the LA Times says... there is some "confusion":

Quote:
At the annual Oscar nominees' luncheon, Academy president John Bailey lauded the industry for its belated moment of reckoning: "I may be a 75-year-old white male," Bailey said, "but I'm every bit as gratified as the youngest of you here that the fossilized bedrock of many of Hollywood's worst abuses are being jackhammered into oblivion."

It would be pretty to think so.

But how on earth can he reconcile that sentiment with the Academy's embrace of someone like Bryant? And why hasn't the Academy apologized for honoring a man convicted of statutory rape like Polanski? How do they justify not ousting him? Or Bill Cosby, for that matter?

During the luncheon, reported my colleague Amy Kaufman, Bryant was the most sought-after celebrity in the room. A-listers, including a delighted Allison Janney, hugged him and posed for photos.

Why are the sexual misdeeds of some men forgivable, while others are not?

If we are looking to Hollywood for answers, we may never figure that one out.
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

Well, this thread is going right off the rails.

Short answer: Any free agent who cares one way or the other about Kobe's Oscar for a short documentary is . . . well, someone who is confused and worrying about the wrong things.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

Kristine brought it up on the Herd.


https://twitter.com/4thand13podcast/status/970713122574135296
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Like it or not, Kobe admitted that he engaged in sexual activity without the accuser's consent.


I guess you're going to just completely ignore the part where he said I TRULY BELIEVE THE ENCOUNTER BETWEEN US WAS CONSENSUAL.



First of all, that was a carefully worded and negotiated statement to put the case behind him. It was a statement that acknowledged AT BEST that they see what transpired between them in a different way. No where in his statement does Kobe agree with her perspective on what transpired.

Second, he cheated on his wife. What he did, he did to HER, and he was (bleep) up for that. But just like with people that I KNOW and LOVE who fall short of glory and hurt people they love, I have to measure how much energy I give to that. How much power do I allow an indiscretion to have over me?? It's a personal decision. Vanessa made a personal and I'm sure very difficult decision to move forward. It is what it is.

Finally, comparing Kobe to Weinstein, Affleck, Woods, etc....are you serious right now?? Those men were SERIAL abusers who roamed and hunted women in the industry like wolves for YEARS before anyone moved a finger to cast them out. How (bleep) dare you?? I know a thing or 2 about predators....they are HABITUAL. There's never just 1, or 2. Over the course of years or decades there will be DOZENS. Kobe had ONE incident. Nothing before, nothing since and it has been 15 years. You can believe what you want about what took place in that hotel room, Kobe is a not a predator.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject:

No offense to any of the people who feel passionately about this subject, but this has ceased to be a basketball thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
No offense to any of the people who feel passionately about this subject, but this has ceased to be a basketball thread.



No offense taken. I agree with you.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

going about this all wrong....we need to be selling the opportunity to be the next Roger Murdock
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

I don't get why people care about locking threads unless they threaten to bump important content to the second page.

If something is stimulating conversation and it's not obscuring the basketball threads... let people discuss. Right now it looks as though only ten threads are currently active.

I get that it belongs in off topic but people don't look at those threads nearly as much... I think either there should be an alert system or there should be a general page where threads of any topic bump to the top. I only stay on this page because the others move too slowly to follow.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject:

I don't really see how the Oscar would affect anything. We all know that being a Laker great will get you further than being a great on another team. Same with the Yankees in baseball. This isn't anything new.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject:

Wow.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Will Kobe's OSCAR help or hurt us in free agency?

ingle wrote:
How do you think it will affect our free agent prospects going forward.



It won't matter to free agents. My guess is it will mostly provide a hook for a small number of people who want an excuse to hash over the events of Kobe's life and career. Probably good for 3 or 4 pages on LG at most unless it gets co-opted by a couple of people who have a heated back and forth that runs on until this gets locked.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

I doubt top NBA FAs will factor in this Oscar win into their decision process.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject:

I will never defend someone who sexually harasses or physically abuses anyone so I don't want any one to take this to wrong way.

What Kobe did in Colorado was very wrong...he was stupid and careless, go caught, accused, went through a trial, and no charges came of it. I still think part of what happened was consensual, some of it wasn't. I mean, she did go to his room, duh.

My point is, Kobe is not exactly like Weinstein or Spacey, these dudes have done this stuff for years and years and years without ever getting in trouble for it. I mean, dozens of abuse allegations...I read all the Kobe hate because of what he did in Colorado, and I get that.....but, its not exactly the same.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject:

This really was a thread?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
rwongega wrote:
There have been HOF Legend Lakers before Kobe. There will be HOF Legend Lakers after Kobe.


How many won an Oscar?


Shaq came close with Kazaam. Kareem got robbed for Airplane!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject:

For Lebron, it’s a done deal now

On a bit more serious note, yeah it’s helps as long as the team finishes the season on a high note, which they appear will do.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Rape case against him has been highlighted today more than it has ever been in the last 10 years put together though. So I don't know if it has been entirely positive regarding his legacy. Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt reading the case and the fact that accuser was caught lying. But many don't look to educate themselves and throw around the rapist world including many in the media. Not to mention the whole trauma due to the case ended up in them losing a child. Hating the witch-hunt against Kobe in the media right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/us/papers-reveal-new-details-in-kobe-bryant-rape-case.html

Amazing how “accusation” and “guilt” have blurred into synonyms in today’s society. We’ve gone from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until proven innocent.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
I don't get why people care about locking threads unless they threaten to bump important content to the second page.

If something is stimulating conversation and it's not obscuring the basketball threads... let people discuss. Right now it looks as though only ten threads are currently active.

I get that it belongs in off topic but people don't look at those threads nearly as much... I think either there should be an alert system or there should be a general page where threads of any topic bump to the top. I only stay on this page because the others move too slowly to follow.


I agree
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
I don't get why people care about locking threads unless they threaten to bump important content to the second page.

If something is stimulating conversation and it's not obscuring the basketball threads... let people discuss. Right now it looks as though only ten threads are currently active.

I get that it belongs in off topic but people don't look at those threads nearly as much... I think either there should be an alert system or there should be a general page where threads of any topic bump to the top. I only stay on this page because the others move too slowly to follow.


I agree


Me too
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject:

anth2000 wrote:
I will never defend someone who sexually harasses or physically abuses anyone so I don't want any one to take this to wrong way.

What Kobe did in Colorado was very wrong...he was stupid and careless, go caught, accused, went through a trial, and no charges came of it. I still think part of what happened was consensual, some of it wasn't. I mean, she did go to his room, duh.

My point is, Kobe is not exactly like Weinstein or Spacey, these dudes have done this stuff for years and years and years without ever getting in trouble for it. I mean, dozens of abuse allegations...I read all the Kobe hate because of what he did in Colorado, and I get that.....but, its not exactly the same.

On what basis do you believe that “some of it wasn’t consensual”? The only thing Kobe was guilty of, as far as any of us know, is adultery. Other than that, what did he do wrong that you know of for sure?

And btw, Kobe was, in fact, brought up on charges. That’s how it went to trial. You have to be charged with a crime(s) in order for there to be a trial.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:05 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:

Amazing how “accusation” and “guilt” have blurred into synonyms in today’s society. We’ve gone from innocent until proven guilty to guilty until proven innocent.



It's always been that way. People are considered innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law; they are often considered guilty in the eyes of the public the moment they are charged. Even if they are acquitted by the courts, the public can still consider them guilty, as with OJ in his first trial.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:32 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
Rape case against him has been highlighted today more than it has ever been in the last 10 years put together though. So I don't know if it has been entirely positive regarding his legacy. Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt reading the case and the fact that accuser was caught lying. But many don't look to educate themselves and throw around the rapist world including many in the media. Not to mention the whole trauma due to the case ended up in them losing a child. Hating the witch-hunt against Kobe in the media right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/04/us/papers-reveal-new-details-in-kobe-bryant-rape-case.html
even though i can't stand the kobe haters.
and from the evidence presented i never thought he did...it.

They actually had to bring it up during this #metoo era we're living in. now once you bring it up, you also have to bring up the facts that are out there. not the fact that they made her look like a liar. the reality that she actually did lie multiple times. doesnt mean it didnt happen. but it does mean it probably didnt happen. and when its a he say/she say, probably didnt happen is all you will ever get. and that goes for both sides. if it sounds like it probably did happen, thats all you're ever going to get on that side as well.

In addition some of the kobe stuff is coming from a place of semi hate. meaning people are a bit upset that he won with that short. because they dont feel it was all that. They liked it, and thought it was kinda cool but thats it. They think the oscars are the highest of high standards. So they believe the only reason kobe won on his first try is because everyone in hollywood is a laker fan just about and therefore are kobe fans. is this true? YEP. is that why he won on the first try? YEP. was it good? YEP. was it good enough to win it all? YEP. but we know how this thing goes. they rarely ever give it to you on your first try. especially if you're a brotha or sista. lol
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
I will never defend someone who sexually harasses or physically abuses anyone so I don't want any one to take this to wrong way.

What Kobe did in Colorado was very wrong...he was stupid and careless, go caught, accused, went through a trial, and no charges came of it. I still think part of what happened was consensual, some of it wasn't. I mean, she did go to his room, duh.

My point is, Kobe is not exactly like Weinstein or Spacey, these dudes have done this stuff for years and years and years without ever getting in trouble for it. I mean, dozens of abuse allegations...I read all the Kobe hate because of what he did in Colorado, and I get that.....but, its not exactly the same.

On what basis do you believe that “some of it wasn’t consensual”? The only thing Kobe was guilty of, as far as any of us know, is adultery. Other than that, what did he do wrong that you know of for sure?

And btw, Kobe was, in fact, brought up on charges. That’s how it went to trial. You have to be charged with a crime(s) in order for there to be a trial.


The details were not particularly flattering. The police thought there was enough evidence there and in the settlement, Kobe even said he saw how she could have felt it wasn't consensual. Its a really old story now and nobody really knows or cares about the details anymore.

This is nothing like the me too movement though. I feel that is more about men in power who use their power to make women do things with them in fear of getting fired or their careers not advancing. Kobe's incident just seemed like two young people getting together randomly. He claims she said no and he stopped, she seemed to claim it went further. Regardless, not the same thing. Kobe shouldn't have ever been in that situation but you live and learn.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
Judah wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
I will never defend someone who sexually harasses or physically abuses anyone so I don't want any one to take this to wrong way.

What Kobe did in Colorado was very wrong...he was stupid and careless, go caught, accused, went through a trial, and no charges came of it. I still think part of what happened was consensual, some of it wasn't. I mean, she did go to his room, duh.

My point is, Kobe is not exactly like Weinstein or Spacey, these dudes have done this stuff for years and years and years without ever getting in trouble for it. I mean, dozens of abuse allegations...I read all the Kobe hate because of what he did in Colorado, and I get that.....but, its not exactly the same.

On what basis do you believe that “some of it wasn’t consensual”? The only thing Kobe was guilty of, as far as any of us know, is adultery. Other than that, what did he do wrong that you know of for sure?

And btw, Kobe was, in fact, brought up on charges. That’s how it went to trial. You have to be charged with a crime(s) in order for there to be a trial.


The details were not particularly flattering. The police thought there was enough evidence there and in the settlement, Kobe even said he saw how she could have felt it wasn't consensual. Its a really old story now and nobody really knows or cares about the details anymore.

This is nothing like the me too movement though. I feel that is more about men in power who use their power to make women do things with them in fear of getting fired or their careers not advancing. Kobe's incident just seemed like two young people getting together randomly. He claims she said no and he stopped, she seemed to claim it went further. Regardless, not the same thing. Kobe shouldn't have ever been in that situation but you live and learn.

Do you have the quote? That’s news to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject:

Ehh the kobe case is old news. Just be glad it didn’t happen today because the conflict inherent in that sort of thing would probably cause a lot of people to just implode.

The doc has no bearing at all on free agency as it has zero impact on his legacy or importance to the Lakers.
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