Willingness to match an offer for JR
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Assuming a 4 year standard increase deal, no options, how much of a starting offer for JR would you match this July?
The Max, $25 Mill
11%
 11%  [ 19 ]
$22 Mill
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
$20 Mill
11%
 11%  [ 19 ]
$18 Mill
26%
 26%  [ 45 ]
$16 Mill
28%
 28%  [ 48 ]
$14 Mill
11%
 11%  [ 20 ]
$12 Mill
4%
 4%  [ 7 ]
Would not match any offer
3%
 3%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 167

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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...

Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.

But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject:

gng930 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
I went with $22m. But it pains me to do so. My somewhat "realistic" hope is in the 4yr/$70m range.

It will be interesting to see what his actual value and offers will end up being on the open market. That is the key. what will the market dictate? If it climbs over $20m I think the Lakers are compelled to match.


Matching Julius at that rate takes us out of the running for a 2nd max free agent if it doesn't happen this summer. So do we think our current core with 1 max free agent ever gives us a window on contention? I'm not ready to say that. OTOH, our current core with 2 max FAs is something I'm on board with. If we score LBJ and PG, I'm tempted to match him at 20+ as well.

Interesting thing to note if we only get PG this summer. Let's say we sign him at 4 years @ $80 million. If it's structured as 20/18.4/20/21.6, we still have enough to pursue Kawhi/Klay/Kyrie in 2019 assuming a cap estimate of $108 million


I'm not saying they are ready to win immediately either. But trending in the right direction IMO.

I am not a fan of the James "fit" with this roster and objectives. So I am biased and skeptical of any plan that makes him the focal point.

But if the Lakers can sign Randle. Sign George ( obviously a big maybe, but more realistic then many others often mentioned) and add pieces to the core for value contracts. Under those circumstances I am more then willing to see how all the young players continue to grow and develop together.

Give it a couple seasons of building a culture and consistency. Of making the playoffs and earning their lumps. Continue adding pieces as needed. Much of this depends on how good you think players like Randle, Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and even Hart can become. I expect growth. Even a couple entering the discussion for All-star consideration. Put those roster pieces together and who knows the competitive ceiling they are capable of.

In all honesty the Nance and Clarkson trade disappoints me because it took away two solid contributors to the puzzle. That roster depth has to be replaced now. At market value or with vet min cast-offs. And it puts even more pressure on the expectations of the 2 max or it is a bust mentality.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...

Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.

But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got.


RFA. shares same agent with PG13. Stop being hysterical about it. Lakers will likely keep him.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject:

$16M
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
scoobs wrote:
If we could just get him signed, we could always entertain trading him (and others) after December 15th, like to San Antonio for Leonard.


The key is to sign him at a moveable figure. If you signed him at 15 it would be easy to move... if you signed him at 20 per it would become more difficult.
Dont get me wrong, I would prefer to keep him. But trading him after December 15th would be an option for us. At 18 million, packaged with someone like Ingram and/or Kuzma, we would have a chance to get a good return for that.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

scoobs wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
scoobs wrote:
If we could just get him signed, we could always entertain trading him (and others) after December 15th, like to San Antonio for Leonard.


The key is to sign him at a moveable figure. If you signed him at 15 it would be easy to move... if you signed him at 20 per it would become more difficult.
Dont get me wrong, I would prefer to keep him. But trading him after December 15th would be an option for us. At 18 million, packaged with someone like Ingram and/or Kuzma, we would have a chance to get a good return for that.



If the negotiations in the summer were strictly between Randle and LA, then there shouldn't be any obstacles to trading him later during the season.

If he signs an offer sheet with another team that was then matched, there is a potential obstacle to a trade later during the season.


42. What is restricted free agency?

Quote:

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent,
and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 92). A restricted free agent's resulting contract (whether with the new team or the contract is matched by the player's prior team) cannot be amended in any manner for one year.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I would not break the bank for him. Talented player for sure but a scoring PF with no jumpshot or interior defense is simply not something you can put alot of chips in if you are building a championship roster.


We’re building a “hope we can be an 8 seed” roster. Giving away all our young players is irresponsible.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject:

I'm in the 18 to 20m camp.

However if some other team gives him a max I am matching it without a second thought. We're in no position to let randle walk. If we must, we can trade him after matching.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
I'm in the 18 to 20m camp.

However if some other team gives him a max I am matching it without a second thought. We're in no position to let randle walk. If we must, we can trade him after matching.


Then sir, your selection is the Max.

This is not about what you WANT to sign him for. This is about what you are willing to match. People keep talking about the "market". The market is what the highest bidder will pay. The market is 1 team out of 29.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject:

It's vital that we reach a deal with him rather than match an offer so he doesn't get to veto trades the following year.

He's young enough that I would go up to 20 to keep him, but big part of the thought process is that if one of the 2019 stars we're after becomes available at the deadline, we'll need to be able to make a trade offer for them, and Randle would be an important piece in such a trade.

If we end up needing that cap room a year from now ?
Then like I said, I think he's young enough and valuable enough that we can feel confident about unloading his salary - even a big 3 year salary.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...

Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.

But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got.


If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.

Well, perhaps not you, but most would...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject:

I’m glad that Jules and Pg13 share agents. Mintz will know if pg13 is coming to LA and how that affects Jules. If pg13 isn’t coming the Lakers will know soon and can deal with Jules accordingly.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

You can’t max him based off potential because if he doesn’t realize that potential (ie Wiggins) he will become immovable. The fear is that you end up with a bad immovable contract and he’ not living up to his contract which would be almost a quarter or your teams salary. However, I doubt any GM/owner would give Randle a max. There’s a lot of value these days with having cap space even if you don’t sign a player with it. You can take bad contracts along with picks and sign large one year deals.

I picked 16M but I’d probably match 18M now that I’ve thought about it more since it would probably still be movable at his current play.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:37 pm    Post subject:

It's helpful that there aren't a lot of teams with significant cap space this summer. I don't think JR will get many good offers, despite the fact he has been playing exceptionally well. I'm thinking $16 mil.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Interesting how many RFAs to be were traded recently. Hood. McDermott. Payton. Etc. teams don’t want to pay it seems.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

IMO if the Lakers didn’t believe in Jules he would have been unloaded even for a 2nd rounder like Payton or Mudiay. The fact he survived over nance/jc/Dlo shows the Lakers rightfully believe in him.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

parsons777 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
I'm in the 18 to 20m camp.

However if some other team gives him a max I am matching it without a second thought. We're in no position to let randle walk. If we must, we can trade him after matching.


Then sir, your selection is the Max.

This is not about what you WANT to sign him for. This is about what you are willing to match. People keep talking about the "market". The market is what the highest bidder will pay. The market is 1 team out of 29.


Then the poll lacks the option I would select which would be to sign him.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

I think the highest they go is 18. They know they can unload Deng next year. If we sign LBJ/PG, maybe he takes the QO with a wink/wink to sign next year over the cap.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...

Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.

But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got.


If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.

Well, perhaps not you, but most would...


Disagree, it is more common to see young players blossom at 22-24 yo than not. That is part of the progression curve. Is Capela playing well because of a contract year? I don’t think so, I think it is the progression of his career.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
davidse wrote:
MJST wrote:
Let's be honest. If Randle was on any other team and playing 35 MPG and averaging 20/11/4 on 55% shooting before he had a jumpshot as he has with us whenever he's played over 30 Minutes with the ability to defend all 5 positions and switch onto point guards... At just 23 years old...

Imo darn near Lakers fan here would be after the idea of obtaining him this off-season and would be willing to payout to get him or giving him an offer he couldn't refuse and forcing the other team to have to make a decision.

But deep down they'd know the other team would match any offer Julius got.


If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.

Well, perhaps not you, but most would...


Disagree, it is more common to see young players blossom at 22-24 yo than not. That is part of the progression curve. Is Capela playing well because of a contract year? I don’t think so, I think it is the progression of his career.


Working harder to get into better shape isn't "blossoming".
It's a choice and a decision with questionable timing.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject:

It is blossoming, it is understanding what is required to get better. Look no farther than this year’s rookies to see how clueless they are about physical fitness and what is required for success in the NBA. My guess is that in the next couple of years they will commit to that.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject:

According to the poll results so far 45 percent says 16 to 18 million. What's sad is it's the same amount of money Mozgov and Deng make.
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Last edited by 32 on Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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davidse
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
It is blossoming, it is understanding what is required to get better. Look no farther than this year’s rookies to see how clueless they are about physical fitness and what is required for success in the NBA. My guess is that in the next couple of years they will commit to that.


Randle is in his 4th year.
You can waste your time looking at rookies and convince yourself that working harder = blossoming.
Ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Ten teams trying to win
Two to three stars who occupy 70-80% of the cap, three to four guys making mid level money ($9-$10 million per) and the other half of the roster making $3 million or less each. Desperately looks to avoid: a contract between the max and the mid level where the player is only marginally better than what you can get for the average salary. Desperately tries to find: a late first rookie scale player who plays at or close to a player on a mid level.

Ten teams trying to profit and Tank
Won't have the star layer and will pilfer assets to help teams who make contract mistakes stay clear of the tax and find space to shuffle their rosters. Will live of of low costs and leaguewide revenues including revenue sharing. Multiple shots at a star with high draft picks which will propel a select few into the top ten group. In the meantime, develops players that fit the needs of the top ten teams for future assets. Desperately looks to avoid: long term contracts that aren't trade assets. Desperately tries to find: top teams in need of their cap space and marginal pieces.

Ten teams in the middle
A couple will be those in process of legitimately moving from the bottom to the top. But more often most will be teams who failed to realize they should be positioned in one of the other two groups. They will tend to overvalue the players they drafted and provide contracts accordingly. They will clog their cap with contracts that fall in the avoid category for the top ten teams. They will generally have drafted poorly or used picks to manage their cap. They may have one star they are looking to appease and get trapped in the idea they are closer than the actually are. They refuse to accept sunk costs.

Where in this construct does Randle go from asset to being overpriced?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject:

davidse wrote:
If Randle was on any other team, you'd be asking questions about this being a contract year and all the extra effort he put into getting in shape last summer.


I've been asking those questions. The front office will need to assess (1) whether Randle has figured out what he needs to do in order to be a star quality player in the league, or (2) whether Randle has figured out what he needs to do in order to get a big money contract this summer. This is not something that we can assess from watching the games live or on TV. You would need to know the man.
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