Willingness to match an offer for JR
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Assuming a 4 year standard increase deal, no options, how much of a starting offer for JR would you match this July?
The Max, $25 Mill
11%
 11%  [ 19 ]
$22 Mill
1%
 1%  [ 3 ]
$20 Mill
11%
 11%  [ 19 ]
$18 Mill
26%
 26%  [ 45 ]
$16 Mill
28%
 28%  [ 48 ]
$14 Mill
11%
 11%  [ 20 ]
$12 Mill
4%
 4%  [ 7 ]
Would not match any offer
3%
 3%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 167

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parsons777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Willingness to match an offer for JR

My ceiling is $16 Mill because I still see the limited ability to defend quality 4/5s and the absence of any range on O as preventing anything near a max as a reasonable match. We will have to make a decision in under 4 months.

Some context:

Pick______2012___________2013________________2014___
1____AD Max__________Bennett NoQO________Wiggins Max
2____MKG $13Mx4______Oladipo $21M x4______Parker ??? Injury History
3____Beal Max_________Porter Max_________Embiid Max ( with significant conditions )
4____Waiters $11Mx4____Zeller $12.5Mx4______Gordon ??? Probable Max
5____TRob NoQO________Len QO_____________Exum ???
6____Lillard Max_______Noel QO_____________Smart ???
7____Barnes Max_______McLemore $5.2Mx2___Randle ???
8____Ross $10.5Mx3_____KCP $17.7x1_________Stauskas ???
9____Drummond Max___Burke 0.8Mx1________Vonleh ???
10___Rivers $11Mx3_____McCollum Max_______Payton ???
11___Leonard $9.2Mx4___MCW $2.7Mx1________McDermott ???
12___Lamb $21Mx3______Adams Max_________Saric ???

15 Giannis Max
27 Gobert $22Mx4
35 Draymond $14.2x5

My ceiling is still $16 mill on July 1.


Last edited by parsons777 on Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject:

With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.

I’d be ok with us extending him, but 12-14 million with a team option after 3 years is probably as much as I’d be willing to go if I’m Pelinka. If someone is willing to pay him the max as a RFA I think you have to let him walk and whoever offers him that will never make the playoffs IMO.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Willingness to match an offer for JR

parsons777 wrote:
My ceiling is $16 Mill because I still see the limited ability to defend quality 4/5s and the absence of any range on O as preventing anything near a max as a reasonable match. We will have to make a decision in under 4 months.


Which quality 4/5's take it to him harder than he takes it to them?

I'd match $20mil, but this is so hard. It depends on who offers that to him, it matters who we sign in FA, what others do in FA.

These decisions are already so difficult with all the information the FO's have, but as fans there is such a discrepancy it's really impossible to make informed decisions sometimes.

If we sign PG and Lebron, and are able to trade Deng with no salary coming back. Match any offer.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject:

I don’t think he’s coming back
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Roon
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.

I’d be ok with us extending him, but 12-14 million with a team option after 3 years is probably as much as I’d be willing to go if I’m Pelinka. If someone is willing to pay him the max as a RFA I think you have to let him walk and whoever offers him that will never make the playoffs IMO.


The point of rebuilding is that we have good/great players on rookie contracts and we can spend on other good players.

None of those players you listed are on Jules' level.

They would hate it if Jules would tasked to guard them.

Jules would feast on Nance, and he would draw a double each time DLO or JC was unfortunate enough to switch on him.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject:

Roon wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.

I’d be ok with us extending him, but 12-14 million with a team option after 3 years is probably as much as I’d be willing to go if I’m Pelinka. If someone is willing to pay him the max as a RFA I think you have to let him walk and whoever offers him that will never make the playoffs IMO.


The point of rebuilding is that we have good/great players on rookie contracts and we can spend on other good players.

None of those players you listed are on Jules' level.

They would hate it if Jules would tasked to guard them.

Jules would feast on Nance, and he would draw a double each time DLO or JC was unfortunate enough to switch on him.


I agree that Jules is better than any of the other players, that’s why he’s still on the team. I’m not a Randle hater...anymore...lol. I just don’t personally feel that he is good enough to be a starting player on a contending team (or maybe even a playoff team). That’s just my person opinion based on his shooting and some of his other deficiencies. He is perfect as a 25 minute a game energy guy off the bench with the occasional start for a good team or maybe even a contender. He’s cool. He’s not Max Money or even 18m a year cool.


Last edited by Fortysixn2 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:31 pm    Post subject:

if we end up using cap space to sign Randle......then this whole effort by the FO of trading away assets to clear out cap space was a massive failure. We did not need cap space to re sign Randle. If we can use our cap space to sign FA's first, then signing/matching Randle is not much of an issue.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject:

What's the most another team can offer him?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject:

lakerlynx wrote:
What's the most another team can offer him?


$25ish Million per year for 4 years.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.



Name another player in NBA history that's put up the numbers he has in the minutes he's played.

I'll wait.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject:

I believe our front office said one of one of our own players could get the max. Julius might qualify.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject:

There's a big contingency in that it depends on how we do in free agency. My ceiling is higher if they score LBJ and PG this summer because that is a team you can roll forward with. Otherwise, you don't want to limit your options beyond with an overpaid Randle taking up too much cap-space.

Hypothetically, if we signed only PG this summer and no other long-term deals, we can still pursue Kawhi/Klay/Kyrie next summer as long as Randle is making no more than $18 million. Without a crystal ball, I'd say that's as far as I'd go. Ideally I'd prefer we also fit a long time warm-up starter at center into that slot.
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parsons777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Willingness to match an offer for JR

Roon wrote:
parsons777 wrote:
My ceiling is $16 Mill because I still see the limited ability to defend quality 4/5s and the absence of any range on O as preventing anything near a max as a reasonable match. We will have to make a decision in under 4 months.


Which quality 4/5's take it to him harder than he takes it to them?

I'd match $20mil, but this is so hard. It depends on who offers that to him, it matters who we sign in FA, what others do in FA.

These decisions are already so difficult with all the information the FO's have, but as fans there is such a discrepancy it's really impossible to make informed decisions sometimes.

If we sign PG and Lebron, and are able to trade Deng with no salary coming back. Match any offer.


For me, it is all about whether the game is mostly transition possessions or if we end up stuck more in a half court situation ( you know, like in the playoffs ). In the half court, these guys ( at least ) give him fits:

There are the obvious 4/5 stars: AD, Boogy ( pre-achilles ), Embiid, KAT, LA, Blake
Then the 4/5s that are just good offensively: Nurkic ( post ), Adams ( post ), Horford ( 3s )

Then when he does get a smaller/more comparable size player, he collects a decent number of charges/TOs in the half court.

Look, when he gets the board and pushes out and gets to go downhill he is a load, no doubt, will playoff quality teams let him do that?
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parsons777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.



Name another player in NBA history that's put up the numbers he has in the minutes he's played.

I'll wait.


Well, I am discounting some of those Rebounding numbers. He does play a lot with BroLo.

MJST, some day, can we win 4 playoff series starting him? Maybe we can, I just do not think so.

BTW, I am terrified about NOT matching. We get NOTHING if we do not match. Yikes.


Last edited by parsons777 on Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.



Name another player in NBA history that's put up the numbers he has in the minutes he's played.

I'll wait.


Lol, what’s up dude. I’m sure you’d max Randle. To answer your question, Bobby Portis has basically the same per 36 numbers this year but has played a few minutes a game less. Julius is a better defender, Portis is a better shooter.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

You can now tell me I’m wrong and insult me, as is your custom. I won’t respond further to you, thx.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Willingness to match an offer for JR

parsons777 wrote:
Roon wrote:
parsons777 wrote:
My ceiling is $16 Mill because I still see the limited ability to defend quality 4/5s and the absence of any range on O as preventing anything near a max as a reasonable match. We will have to make a decision in under 4 months.


Which quality 4/5's take it to him harder than he takes it to them?

I'd match $20mil, but this is so hard. It depends on who offers that to him, it matters who we sign in FA, what others do in FA.

These decisions are already so difficult with all the information the FO's have, but as fans there is such a discrepancy it's really impossible to make informed decisions sometimes.

If we sign PG and Lebron, and are able to trade Deng with no salary coming back. Match any offer.


For me, it is all about whether the game is mostly transition possessions or if we end up stuck more in a half court situation ( you know, like in the playoffs ). In the half court, these guys ( at least ) give him fits:

There are the obvious 4/5 stars: AD, Boogy ( pre-achilles ), Embiid, KAT, LA, Blake
Then the 4/5s that are just good offensively: Nurkic ( post ), Adams ( post ), Horford ( 3s )

Then when he does get a smaller/more comparable size player, he collects a decent number of charges/TOs in the half court.

Look, when he gets the board and pushes out and gets to go downhill he is a load, no doubt, will playoff quality teams let him do that?


This is how I think of it. Those guys are going to eat on everyone, but half court, both sides, who is going to make them work harder than Randle?

In my opinion, Randle's floor is a championship level pain in the ass for the other team's best players.

If AD/KAT/LA/Blake has to spend every defensive possession chasing Randle around, denying him post position, boxing him out, taking Randleshoulders to the chest, I consider that a win. Who would you rather have match up with them?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Willingness to match an offer for JR

parsons777 wrote:
My ceiling is $16 Mill because I still see the limited ability to defend quality 4/5s and the absence of any range on O as preventing anything near a max as a reasonable match. We will have to make a decision in under 4 months.


Another stupid poll, you gave ur input why do u & others find it necessary to create a poll 1% of views participate! Pathetic...

I'm all for re-signing Randle but I don't need a poll to clarify it, the FO has final say.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:23 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.



Name another player in NBA history that's put up the numbers he has in the minutes he's played.

I'll wait.


Lol, what’s up dude. I’m sure you’d max Randle. To answer your question, Bobby Portis has basically the same per 36 numbers this year but has played a few minutes a game less. Julius is a better defender, Portis is a better shooter.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

You can now tell me I’m wrong and insult me, as is your custom. I won’t respond further to you, thx.


Bobby Portis has had a grand toal of 3 games this season where hes played 30 minutes. It doesn't take long to bust an attempted strawman like that.

You still haven't answered my question.

If you wanna go by the PER36 of someone that plays about 20 MPG than that means Jordan Hill was on his way to being the greatest offensive rebounder of all time the year we had Dwight....


Still waiting on your numbers of the players who have put up the numbers Randle has in the minutes he's played.

Heck 9 of Randle's last 10 games have been 30 minutes or above with the numbers to back it up with consistency and you try to bring up Bobby Portis whom has gone over the 30 minute mark 3 times all season?

Just admitting you couldn't name anyone that's put up the numbers Julius has in the minutes he's played would have been the far better route.

Trying to instead justify yourself by trying to compare him to Bobby Portis shows where you're at however.

On to the next discussion.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject:

Lol. The one player in NBA history brought up was Bobby Portis?!? Wow. That’s just lazy.

Randle is a half decade away from hitting his prime.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.

I’d be ok with us extending him, but 12-14 million with a team option after 3 years is probably as much as I’d be willing to go if I’m Pelinka. If someone is willing to pay him the max as a RFA I think you have to let him walk and whoever offers him that will never make the playoffs IMO.
we can't let you anywhere near our front office Forty. lol. Julius can be a starter on a playoff championship caliber team. He does enough right to be that guy. is he a superstar? no, not yet. is he an allstar? not yet. will he become one? Probably. barring injury.

he plays defense, can play very good pick and roll defense. he rebounds. he can get to the line now. he is a willing passer and he's not afraid to go to work if need be.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
MJST wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
With Randle, it’s not that he’s not a decent player...but he’s not a starter on a playoff team. He is in the same class as a Clarkson, DLO, Nance....they are either starters on a lottery team or bench players on a playoff team. If we give him starter on a playoff team money, then we are kind of relegating ourselves to not being a playoff team.



Name another player in NBA history that's put up the numbers he has in the minutes he's played.

I'll wait.


Lol, what’s up dude. I’m sure you’d max Randle. To answer your question, Bobby Portis has basically the same per 36 numbers this year but has played a few minutes a game less. Julius is a better defender, Portis is a better shooter.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/portibo01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

You can now tell me I’m wrong and insult me, as is your custom. I won’t respond further to you, thx.


Bobby Portis has had a grand toal of 3 games this season where hes played 30 minutes. It doesn't take long to bust an attempted strawman like that.

You still haven't answered my question.

If you wanna go by the PER36 of someone that plays about 20 MPG than that means Jordan Hill was on his way to being the greatest offensive rebounder of all time the year we had Dwight....


Still waiting on your numbers of the players who have put up the numbers Randle has in the minutes he's played.

Heck 9 of Randle's last 10 games have been 30 minutes or above with the numbers to back it up with consistency and you try to bring up Bobby Portis whom has gone over the 30 minute mark 3 times all season?

Just admitting you couldn't name anyone that's put up the numbers Julius has in the minutes he's played would have been the far better route.

Trying to instead justify yourself by trying to compare him to Bobby Portis shows where you're at however.

On to the next discussion.

and to add to it. portis is taking just as many shot attempts as randle is but within less mins. therefore you don't need to pull the per 36. the reason people use that is to get an apples to apples comparison on shot attempts and fg% once you shoot more often..will it go up or down with more shots. we already know what portis' fg% would be with randle's same FGA's. it would be lower than randles. check the stats.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject:

Players with Stats Similar to Randle in Less than 28 MPG


Not too many players


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parsons777
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:21 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:


Not too many players


Can you format that? Thank you


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject:

I'd like to hope he can stay for $14M, but I'd match $18M if that's what it takes to keep him. Probably not higher.

Screw 2 Max, and go 1 Max plus Randle.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject:

I would be very wary of paying Randle 1/5th of our salary cap. Maybe around 15 million is a gamble worth taking. If we pay him and he doesn't improve he will be hard to move because he can't shoot. It's a tough one.
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