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Sentient Meat
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | If you find no value in random message board users opinions... why are some of you here?
Just stick to watching ESPN interviews if you only want player opinions.
Who knows more about the Star Wars Universe... obsessed film geeks on film message boards... or Oscar Isaac or John Boyega?
Who knows more about the Marvel Universe... Scarlett Johanssen or some obsessed comic book fan?
Could be the actors... but I'd bet fans know more than many of the actors involved. Now I get that the athletes are experiencing everything close up, and many are brilliant students of the game as well as great players but a lot of player testimonials are based on personal friendships as well as dislike or bias in certain cases. Keyshawn and Marcellus were clowning each other the other day because Key said that Marcellus only got into the Pro Bowl game because players liked him and his parties.
My point is that intelligent players would know more than the average board warrior but some dumb ones or biased ones would have just as much an agenda as a fan on Twitter or a message board. Their testimonials, like anyone else's should be regarded with a critical eye. |
Thought we already decided here that the ultimate source on this matter was Super Dave Osborne. |
Lol. So salty. I see the Anti-Kobe Squad has already fully assembled. Right on cue.
BTW, here's the direct quote from John Wooden himself calling Kobe the GOAT that you're blatantly trying to discredit.
John Wooden (May 1st, 2009):
He says Kobe Bryant, "from a physical point of view is the best to ever play the game,"
Source:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/01/sports/sp-simers1
Although I'm sure you've already got another deflection up your sleeve... 
Some of you dudes sound like a bunch of Nick Wright/Jason Whitlock/Bill Simmons clones with how your brains are weirdly programmed to get triggered at any possible mention of Kobe being the GOAT. |
Guess you ignored my earlier quote where I said he was the best one on one player of all time. |
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32
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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In that wooden quote about Kobe he says from a physical point of view he is the best to ever play the game. To me physical means athletically. I don't interpret that quote has him saying he is the GOAT.
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Batguano
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | If you find no value in random message board users opinions... why are some of you here?
Just stick to watching ESPN interviews if you only want player opinions.
Who knows more about the Star Wars Universe... obsessed film geeks on film message boards... or Oscar Isaac or John Boyega?
Who knows more about the Marvel Universe... Scarlett Johanssen or some obsessed comic book fan?
Could be the actors... but I'd bet fans know more than many of the actors involved. Now I get that the athletes are experiencing everything close up, and many are brilliant students of the game as well as great players but a lot of player testimonials are based on personal friendships as well as dislike or bias in certain cases. Keyshawn and Marcellus were clowning each other the other day because Key said that Marcellus only got into the Pro Bowl game because players liked him and his parties.
My point is that intelligent players would know more than the average board warrior but some dumb ones or biased ones would have just as much an agenda as a fan on Twitter or a message board. Their testimonials, like anyone else's should be regarded with a critical eye. |
Thought we already decided here that the ultimate source on this matter was Super Dave Osborne. |
Lol. So salty. I see the Anti-Kobe Squad has already fully assembled. Right on cue.
BTW, here's the direct quote from John Wooden himself calling Kobe the GOAT that you're blatantly trying to discredit.
John Wooden (May 1st, 2009):
He says Kobe Bryant, "from a physical point of view is the best to ever play the game,"
Source:
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/01/sports/sp-simers1
Although I'm sure you've already got another deflection up your sleeve...
Some of you dudes sound like a bunch of Nick Wright/Jason Whitlock/Bill Simmons clones with how your brains are weirdly programmed to get triggered at any possible mention of Kobe being the GOAT. |
Guess you ignored my earlier quote where I said he was the best one on one player of all time. |
See the bolded. It was in response to rinfinger, not you. |
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City_Dawg
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Batguano wrote: |
As far as the whole "where does Kobe rank/is Kobe the GOAT" losing steam...? |
Oh, sure. People will always talk about this stuff. We still see the occasional Wilt vs. Russell argument, after all. I have noticed that threads on LG about this tend to fritter out more quickly than they used to, largely because there isn't any more new information to add and anyone who cares about this has already heard all the arguments.
As far as quotes from athletes, I find that fans don't care about those unless the athlete is saying something the fan already agrees with. But the quotes don't really influence anyone's opinion.
Personally, I find athletes opinion interesting only if it's coupled with a compelling analysis or explanation, but that rarely happens. That said, for me, they can be a very minor piece to throw on the big piles of data. |
You and Aenas Hunter always have posts hating on Kobe in Kobe threads than any other posters including Kobe homers. Your agendas are obvious no matter how you try to disguise it. This goes back a decade or more. Anyone can check your post histories |
AV forgot to mention that these threads usually dip into ad hominem and then get locked. Thanks for expediting the process. |
Good deflection. Get called out then call for the mods |
I lol'd cuz its true
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kikanga
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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Kerr knows the value of winning championships. But sure if championships don't matter. Lebron is definitely closer to Jordan than Kobe.
Besides winning chips. One thing that Kobe undeniably did better than Lebron is dominate offensively without monopolizing the paint.
Lebron has turned every all star he's played with into a floor spacer. Kobe never had to do that, cause he could dominate from the perimeter. Not to sure how a prime Lebron and a prime Shaq would work? Let alone a young Lebron and a prime Shaq. Same goes with Lebron and Pau/Bynum/Odom.
And for the record, I'm far from a Lebron hater. I prefer him over KD, Curry, Harden, and many other stars.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| 32 wrote: | | In that wooden quote about Kobe he says from a physical point of view he is the best to ever play the game. To me physical means athletically. I don't interpret that quote has him saying he is the GOAT. |
That's one issue with a lot of these quotes -- even if you care what the person says, they often are sound bytes that don't go into much detail. It's anyone's guess what Wooden means by "from a physical point of view Kobe is the best to ever play the game."
I could interpret that to mean a lot of different things; but then the interpretation would just be my opinion, rather than Wooden's.
I would have loved to get more of his perspective on this, just because I find Wooden an interesting guy. |
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PartyMan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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If they played 1 on 1 in their primes, Kobe would win.
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Imagine if Kobe played in the weak East like Bron did. Imagine if he ring chased in his prime twice like Bron did. |
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gblews
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Which one makes his team/teammates better? |
Who cares? In a discussion about who is the better player or who is closest to MJ, 'who makes his teammates better' is as irrelevant a criteria as there is. If this were not the case, then guys like Steve Nash and John Stockton would be in the conversation. Obviously, neither of them belongs. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Imagine if Kobe played in the weak East like Bron did. Imagine if he ring chased in his prime twice like Bron did. |
Imagine if Kobe had started his career in Charlotte and ended his career with a few less rings.
The woulda coulda shouldas can go all sorts of directions.
Which is why players are judged on what they actually do, not on guesses of what they might have done in different circumstances |
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rwongega
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| City_Dawg wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Batguano wrote: |
As far as the whole "where does Kobe rank/is Kobe the GOAT" losing steam...? |
Oh, sure. People will always talk about this stuff. We still see the occasional Wilt vs. Russell argument, after all. I have noticed that threads on LG about this tend to fritter out more quickly than they used to, largely because there isn't any more new information to add and anyone who cares about this has already heard all the arguments.
As far as quotes from athletes, I find that fans don't care about those unless the athlete is saying something the fan already agrees with. But the quotes don't really influence anyone's opinion.
Personally, I find athletes opinion interesting only if it's coupled with a compelling analysis or explanation, but that rarely happens. That said, for me, they can be a very minor piece to throw on the big piles of data. |
You and Aenas Hunter always have posts hating on Kobe in Kobe threads than any other posters including Kobe homers. Your agendas are obvious no matter how you try to disguise it. This goes back a decade or more. Anyone can check your post histories |
AV forgot to mention that these threads usually dip into ad hominem and then get locked. Thanks for expediting the process. |
Good deflection. Get called out then call for the mods |
I lol'd cuz its true |
Same. But we need a Kobe was a rapist reply here before the thread gets locked. I know just the guy....
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methdxman
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| This is the first time a man with a bad back gave me a raging boner. |
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PartyMan
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| methdxman wrote: | | This is the first time a man with a bad back gave me a raging boner. |
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We pour this booze and we drink this booze because we think it's yummy. YUMMY! So over the tounge and down the throat to party in our tummys.
DOWN THE HOLA BITC*OLA!!! |
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Luke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | Which one makes his team/teammates better? |
The one who has won more rings ( expecially considering the "gifts" the other has received) |
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Luke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | City_Dawg wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Batguano wrote: |
As far as the whole "where does Kobe rank/is Kobe the GOAT" losing steam...? |
Oh, sure. People will always talk about this stuff. We still see the occasional Wilt vs. Russell argument, after all. I have noticed that threads on LG about this tend to fritter out more quickly than they used to, largely because there isn't any more new information to add and anyone who cares about this has already heard all the arguments.
As far as quotes from athletes, I find that fans don't care about those unless the athlete is saying something the fan already agrees with. But the quotes don't really influence anyone's opinion.
Personally, I find athletes opinion interesting only if it's coupled with a compelling analysis or explanation, but that rarely happens. That said, for me, they can be a very minor piece to throw on the big piles of data. |
You and Aenas Hunter always have posts hating on Kobe in Kobe threads than any other posters including Kobe homers. Your agendas are obvious no matter how you try to disguise it. This goes back a decade or more. Anyone can check your post histories |
AV forgot to mention that these threads usually dip into ad hominem and then get locked. Thanks for expediting the process. |
Good deflection. Get called out then call for the mods |
I lol'd cuz its true |
Same. But we need a Kobe was a rapist reply here before the thread gets locked. I know just the guy.... |
I think I know why they do it, but I want the permission of a mod. before giving my honest opinion... |
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trablos
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Just to add something new, I never hear anybody explain what they mean by "making teammates better". Passing them the ball? Getting on them in practice? Calling out plays in timeouts and during the game? Then you have to think about how much of that blame goes on a Kobe/Bron/MJ and how much of it goes on the guys they are supposed to "make better"? Is it even possible to make your teammates better? |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | In that wooden quote about Kobe he says from a physical point of view he is the best to ever play the game. To me physical means athletically. I don't interpret that quote has him saying he is the GOAT. |
That's one issue with a lot of these quotes -- even if you care what the person says, they often are sound bytes that don't go into much detail. It's anyone's guess what Wooden means by "from a physical point of view Kobe is the best to ever play the game."
I could interpret that to mean a lot of different things; but then the interpretation would just be my opinion, rather than Wooden's.
I would have loved to get more of his perspective on this, just because I find Wooden an interesting guy. |
Well...Wooden was not just an interesting guy. He was a HOF basketball coach. He was not just an internet guy who talks on stats and nothing but stats. He knew what he was talking about. He surely had watched Kobe up close in the vicinity.
Whatever he meant, surely haters wouldn't want to say he referred to Kobe as the best. That would not be a surprise. What if he said the same thing about Bron or MJ? LOL
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | Just to add something new, I never hear anybody explain what they mean by "making teammates better". Passing them the ball? Getting on them in practice? Calling out plays in timeouts and during the game? Then you have to think about how much of that blame goes on a Kobe/Bron/MJ and how much of it goes on the guys they are supposed to "make better"? Is it even possible to make your teammates better? |
"Making your teammates better" is a cliche that encompasses a lot of squishy metrics -- leadership that inspires teammates; controlling the tempo and delivering the ball to allow teammates to get better shots; taking more defensive pressure to free up teammates.
Often, someone who says player X makes his teammates better will cherrypick one or two teammates whose stats improved while playing with them. However, the seeming improvement can often be traced to things like more playing time. And teammates who did not improve will be ignored.
I've never seen anyone put together any solid, systematic case to show that any player ever actually "made his teammates better." |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | Just to add something new, I never hear anybody explain what they mean by "making teammates better". Passing them the ball? Getting on them in practice? Calling out plays in timeouts and during the game? Then you have to think about how much of that blame goes on a Kobe/Bron/MJ and how much of it goes on the guys they are supposed to "make better"? Is it even possible to make your teammates better? |
There is NO such thing as MAKING TEAMMATES BETTER. Better players will be just better everywhere they play. There are reasons why those BETTER PLAYER sink back to MEDIOCRE players when they stop playing with certain players.
The right or more suitable term should be and must be "Making things easier for teammates". That is why when the supposedly player(s) who make things easier are gone from the team, the team then struggles harder depending on who remain with the team.
When Shaq left, Kobe was left with nothing until Gasol came. You know Kobe made these players STARTERS or bordersome all-star: Smush Parker, Devean George, Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Odom.
Even so, because of Kobe the Lakers still were able to make it to the playoffs with the most hurting one being "One rebound away" against the mighty Suns.
Now, think a moment if Kobe left and Shaq was left with smush, george, odom, etc. Could Shaq carry the team with his QUESTIONABLE work ethic? Doubt it!
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Last edited by moonriver24 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LakersDC
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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Haven't seen a long Kobe vs Bron thread in a while, lol. Everyone knows Kobe is the closest to Jordan in terms of game - even Lebron would probably admit that. Kerr isn't saying Kobe is #2 all time, just that their games, mannerisms, styles are similar.
The WHOLE world agrees. Stop turning this into a Kobe vs Lebron debate for the 1000th time. Everyone knows that Magic or Kareem are #2 of all time anyways  |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | In that wooden quote about Kobe he says from a physical point of view he is the best to ever play the game. To me physical means athletically. I don't interpret that quote has him saying he is the GOAT. |
That's one issue with a lot of these quotes -- even if you care what the person says, they often are sound bytes that don't go into much detail. It's anyone's guess what Wooden means by "from a physical point of view Kobe is the best to ever play the game."
I could interpret that to mean a lot of different things; but then the interpretation would just be my opinion, rather than Wooden's.
I would have loved to get more of his perspective on this, just because I find Wooden an interesting guy. |
Well...Wooden was not just an interesting guy. He was a HOF basketball coach. He was not just an internet guy who talks on stats and nothing but stats. He knew what he was talking about. He surely had watched Kobe up close in the vicinity.
Whatever he meant, surely haters wouldn't want to say he referred to Kobe as the best. That would not be a surprise. What if he said the same thing about Bron or MJ? LOL |
It's not simply that he didn't talk about "stats." He didn't expand on his sound byte and explain what he meant. If had made the exact same comment about MJ or Lebron, I would have the exact same reaction -- I'm not sure what he is trying to say. |
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: |
Kobe to me was the Tiger Woods of basketball. |
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky. |
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Dreamshake wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: |
Kobe to me was the Tiger Woods of basketball. |
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky. |
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
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moonriver24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | moonriver24 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | In that wooden quote about Kobe he says from a physical point of view he is the best to ever play the game. To me physical means athletically. I don't interpret that quote has him saying he is the GOAT. |
That's one issue with a lot of these quotes -- even if you care what the person says, they often are sound bytes that don't go into much detail. It's anyone's guess what Wooden means by "from a physical point of view Kobe is the best to ever play the game."
I could interpret that to mean a lot of different things; but then the interpretation would just be my opinion, rather than Wooden's.
I would have loved to get more of his perspective on this, just because I find Wooden an interesting guy. |
Well...Wooden was not just an interesting guy. He was a HOF basketball coach. He was not just an internet guy who talks on stats and nothing but stats. He knew what he was talking about. He surely had watched Kobe up close in the vicinity.
Whatever he meant, surely haters wouldn't want to say he referred to Kobe as the best. That would not be a surprise. What if he said the same thing about Bron or MJ? LOL |
It's not simply that he didn't talk about "stats." He didn't expand on his sound byte and explain what he meant. If had made the exact same comment about MJ or Lebron, I would have the exact same reaction -- I'm not sure what he is trying to say. |
Well judging from the supposedly surprising reply on the other side, you could (if you want but you dont want to) interpret that the coach put Kobe a bit higher. Because why? because even PJ has been admitting that MJ has had a better physical (bigger hands and body) than Kobe. You think the college coach did not agree with Phil Jackson's assessment? that cant be.
So, Wooden would have not stated such if he didn't mean Kobe a better player.
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Dreamshake
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| moonriver24 wrote: | | Dreamshake wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: |
Kobe to me was the Tiger Woods of basketball. |
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky. |
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far. |
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine. |
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