Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone _________________ DISGUSTING:
Big Game James wrote:
I'm Kwame Brown and every one of my posts seem to be moved. I find this perplexing because I've never had a post move before!
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Sporting Goods Business estimated that sales of NBA-licensed goods dropped 30% after MJ retired. Television ratings for the league plummeted.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Sporting Goods Business estimated that sales of NBA-licensed goods dropped 30% after MJ retired. Television ratings for the league plummeted.
A short-term drop was not unexpected if you have a Jordan caliber player retiring, The sales of sporting goods tend to reach its peak during the said player(s) were still playing. Further, one cannot just give all the credit to MJ because of the era in which he played where big names were still there. Care to mention? So when MJ retired, most of the great players were already gone or became old and the sales of the products related to those players also were down. NO brainer. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Sporting Goods Business estimated that sales of NBA-licensed goods dropped 30% after MJ retired. Television ratings for the league plummeted.
A short-term drop was not unexpected if you have a Jordan caliber player retiring, The sales of sporting goods tend to reach its peak during the said player(s) were still playing. Further, one cannot just give all the credit to MJ because of the era in which he played where big names were still there. Care to mention? So when MJ retired, most of the great players were already gone or became old and the sales of the products related to those players also were down. NO brainer.
The magnitude of the drop in sales and ratings immediately following MJ's retirement was staggering. I can think of no comparable example in a major team sports league; certainly none in NBA history. (The closest example I can think of is Tiger Woods in golf, but no on else comes to mind for me.)
If you can name a specific example that I've overlooked, please share, and I'll be happy to reconsider my position.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Sporting Goods Business estimated that sales of NBA-licensed goods dropped 30% after MJ retired. Television ratings for the league plummeted.
A short-term drop was not unexpected if you have a Jordan caliber player retiring, The sales of sporting goods tend to reach its peak during the said player(s) were still playing. Further, one cannot just give all the credit to MJ because of the era in which he played where big names were still there. Care to mention? So when MJ retired, most of the great players were already gone or became old and the sales of the products related to those players also were down. NO brainer.
The magnitude of the drop in sales and ratings immediately following MJ's retirement was staggering. I can think of no comparable example in a major team sports league; certainly none in NBA history. If you can name a specific example, please share, and I'll be happy to reconsider my position.
I gave you reasonable reasons for the drop. I did not deny the drop in sales and rating. As I stated it was not unexpected because Kobe and the rest of his generation were still young and on the rise. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
I gave you reasonable reasons for the drop. I did not deny the drop in sales and rating. As I stated it was not unexpected because Kobe and the rest of his generation were still young and on the rise.
I didn't find your reasons to be "reasonable" myself. I don't buy that a 30% drop in merchandize sales and huge TV ratings drop "was not unexpected if you have a Jordan caliber player retiring" -- since it hasn't happened when other greats retired.
Like I said, I can't think of any other situation where a single player's retirement has had such an immediate and dramatic impact on a sports league. I guess you can't either.
I've never quite understood why MJ had such appeal, especially to people who don't care about basketball. Like Tiger Woods and golf, MJ somehow made people care about a sport they really didn't care about at all before he came or after he left.
I've never quite understood why MJ had such appeal, especially to people who don't care about basketball. Like Tiger Woods and golf, MJ somehow made people care about a sport they really didn't care about at all before he came or after he left.
In the bigger picture that goes beyond sports, MJ was and still is the greatest single marketing icon of all time. Tiger and Beckham are the only people who have come close.
I gave you reasonable reasons for the drop. I did not deny the drop in sales and rating. As I stated it was not unexpected because Kobe and the rest of his generation were still young and on the rise.
But there were plenty of other great players who weren't. Shaq was a vet on the leagues marquee franchise. Robinson, Malone, Miller and countless other great and popular players were still playing too.
I've never quite understood why MJ had such appeal, especially to people who don't care about basketball. Like Tiger Woods and golf, MJ somehow made people care about a sport they really didn't care about at all before he came or after he left.
In the bigger picture that goes beyond sports, MJ was and still is the greatest single marketing icon of all time. Tiger and Beckham are the only people who have come close.
Sure that's the other side of the same coin. They are such big marketing figures because they transcend their sport. All three of those guys kind of remind me of beatlemania. You can see the talent, and can understand why they're popular, but the emotional connection people have to them is a little puzzling, and defies logic
I gave you reasonable reasons for the drop. I did not deny the drop in sales and rating. As I stated it was not unexpected because Kobe and the rest of his generation were still young and on the rise.
But there were plenty of other great players who weren't. Shaq was a vet on the leagues marquee franchise. Robinson, Malone, Miller and countless other great and popular players were still playing too.
Shaq came as one of the then new attraction aside from peaking BULLS and MJ. I remebered the sensation created by Shaq (and alas...penny hardaway and the emerging force of Orlando Tragic). Suddenly, the Eastern was no more New Yorkers and BUlls only. Too bad, Shaq and Penny could not contain their egos on a very solid and good team. This was the time when the League was full of great centers, power forwards and guards. Shaq certainly brought new interest in basketball everywhere at the time.
Other factors that might play in the drop of sales and attendance could be less purchasing power due to increase in ticket prices and costs of operations (as cap increases, amount of maximum contract increased, etc). Lots of teams couldnt make it to break even point if were not cross-subsidized by "big" market teams.
I remembered how fans were fed up with locks-out which might contribute to the drop also. You know the joke that the Spurs took advantage of the shortened NBA season after the compromise on the lock out.
Sure that's the other side of the same coin. They are such big marketing figures because they transcend their sport. All three of those guys kind of remind me of beatlemania. You can see the talent, and can understand why they're popular, but the emotional connection people have to them is a little puzzling, and defies logic
I suppose, but you could say the same thing about the emotional connection people have to sports in general and to their team in particular. Or, looking at it another way, why do people form emotional connections to movie stars, pop stars, or even people like the freaking Kardashians? Look at the vast number of people who seem to genuinely *care* about Taylor Swift. It's something in human nature.
or something? The ony reason the league had a couple of down yearsKobe to me was the Tiger Woods of basketball.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Didn't Jordan retire in like '97 or something? Anyway, the only reason the league had a couple of "down" years after he retired was partially because of the rise of some dull teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Knicks etc, playing in the Finals. Once the Lakers came of age in 2000, the league began to flourish like it had never flourished before, even in the peak Jordan years. .
or something? The ony reason the league had a couple of down yearsKobe to me was the Tiger Woods of basketball.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Didn't Jordan retire in like '97 or something? Anyway, the only reason the league had a couple of "down" years after he retired was partially because of the rise of some dull teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Knicks etc, playing in the Finals. Once the Lakers came of age in 2000, the league began to flourish like it had never flourished before, even in the peak Jordan years. .
During the span of 1988 - 1995 ... the league saw three times of expansion each with 2 new teams added to the league. This might well explain why the league saw the greatest interest increase in NBA. So, the myth that MJ alone contributed to the rise in NBA viewership is not all true. _________________ Kobe's Top 5 Dunks, 81 points, MJ last gm @Staples
Didn't Jordan retire in like '97 or something? Anyway, the only reason the league had a couple of "down" years after he retired was partially because of the rise of some dull teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Knicks etc, playing in the Finals. Once the Lakers came of age in 2000, the league began to flourish like it had never flourished before, even in the peak Jordan years. .
Well, no, that's not true. The Lakers did not reverse the decline. In fact, the TV ratings have never recovered. The TV contracts got bigger, but that was due to other demographic factors.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Didn't Jordan retire in like '97 or something? Anyway, the only reason the league had a couple of "down" years after he retired was partially because of the rise of some dull teams like the Spurs, Pistons, Knicks etc, playing in the Finals. Once the Lakers came of age in 2000, the league began to flourish like it had never flourished before, even in the peak Jordan years. .
During the span of 1988 - 1995 ... the league saw three times of expansion each with 2 new teams added to the league. This might well explain why the league saw the greatest interest increase in NBA. So, the myth that MJ alone contributed to the rise in NBA viewership is not all true.
Well when I was talking about Kobe being Tiger it was more so that he was destroying everyone in the same years, the same era I actually watched.
Not just some people telling me he was really good and I had to take their word for it like Jordan or Gretzky.
But someone messed my quote up a little so Fixed*
Last edited by Lucky_Shot on Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Thats not why the nba fell off. It fell off because everyone that was very very good in that era got old at the same time. So you had to wait for the new guys to get older and gain enough knowledge/skills to become superstars worth watching like the old guard.
Kobe played for 20 years. by the time kobe started aging out lebron was on the rise. there was no lebron or prime kobe playing during MJ's older years.(pre wizards).
In addition the nba changed the rules to HELP this current crop of young stars. The nba emphasizes offense much more than defense now than they did during post jordan's era. which makes the transition from kobe to bron, to kyrie, steph, to durant, to harden, etc etc a lot easier. imagine having a bunch of young guys with immature games being guarded with 90's rules. it would take them a few years to get used to that style of play and learn how to counter it. vs what we have today with the no hand checking and not real bodying up on guys. you can't over crowd shooters. Lastly, everyone is running a heavy dose of screens to free up the ball handler. that was not the case right after jordan retired from the bulls. Only a handful of teams were running heavy pick and rolls. all these things make it much easier to score.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Thats not why the nba fell off. It fell off because everyone that was very very good in that era got old at the same time. So you had to wait for the new guys to get older and gain enough knowledge/skills to become superstars worth watching like the old guard.
Not really. What happened is MJ retired and the Bulls disbanded immediately after a threepeat. Other than Jordan, you've never seen a guy retire at the height of his success (he was MVP and finals MVP). The Bulls were the rock stars of the NBA, selling 40% of the merchandize. They disappeared in an immediate and surprising way, and so did a lot of fans.
As others have pointed out, there were lots of established and emerging stars still around -- Shaq, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Grant Hill, just to name a few.
In Jordan's final year, the runner-ups to him in MVP voting were Malone (2), Payton (3), Shaq (4) and Duncan (5), So the old guard was going strong, and the new guard had already arrived.
Nah, the only modern athlete to have Tiger type impact on their sport was Jordan. Maybe Serena and Gretzky.
Well duh... because MJ and the gang was the first one to bring NBA games international. But Kobe popularity is not that far.
It is, as far as impact to the sport. When Tiger fell off golf as a whole suffered. When Jordan retired the NBA as a whole suffered. That's not the case with Kobe. He left and the sport is just fine.
Did the NBA really suffer after MJ retired? I know I started watching after he was already gone
Thats not why the nba fell off. It fell off because everyone that was very very good in that era got old at the same time. So you had to wait for the new guys to get older and gain enough knowledge/skills to become superstars worth watching like the old guard.
Not really. What happened is MJ retired and the Bulls disbanded immediately after a threepeat. Other than Jordan, you've never seen a guy retire at the height of his success (he was MVP and finals MVP). The Bulls were the rock stars of the NBA, selling 40% of the merchandize. They disappeared in an immediate and surprising way, and so did a lot of fans.
As others have pointed out, there were lots of established and emerging stars still around -- Shaq, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Grant Hill, just to name a few.
In Jordan's final year, the runner-ups to him in MVP voting were Malone (2), Payton (3), Shaq (4) and Duncan (5), So the old guard was going strong, and the new guard had already arrived.
but he means if Kobe was ready to go when MJ fell off/retired the drop off wouldn't have been as steep. Like how Lebronze was already ready to carry the torch when Kobe fell off.
but he means if Kobe was ready to go when MJ fell off/retired the drop off wouldn't have been as steep. Like how Lebronze was already ready to carry the torch when Kobe fell off.
I don't know if that's what he meant, but if so, it's still just a guess that doesn't change what happened in reality.
Anyway, I was rebuffing the notion that the league was lacking stars in the immediate aftermath of MJ's retirement.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
(I know by own experience, Kobe healed immediately my longing for MJ).
