Elgin Baylor Legacy and Statue
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:

None of this is to suggest that he was a garbage player. He probably belongs in the second 25 of all time. Curiously, I think he benefits from the fact that almost no one actually remembers what he was like as a player. People see the highlight reels, where no one ever misses a shot, and they see the stat totals from those early years. That limited record becomes the reality.


It's funny how someone said Elgin was one of the most underrated players of all time. I think he's somewhat overrated.

I'm not entirely sure why Baylor is remember more than Bob Pettit, whose career was superior in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:

None of this is to suggest that he was a garbage player. He probably belongs in the second 25 of all time. Curiously, I think he benefits from the fact that almost no one actually remembers what he was like as a player. People see the highlight reels, where no one ever misses a shot, and they see the stat totals from those early years. That limited record becomes the reality.


It's funny how someone said Elgin was one of the most underrated players of all time. I think he's somewhat overrated.

I'm not entirely sure why Baylor is remember more than Bob Pettit, whose career was superior in my opinion.


IMO Pettit was great BUT he wasn't a Laker.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:

None of this is to suggest that he was a garbage player. He probably belongs in the second 25 of all time. Curiously, I think he benefits from the fact that almost no one actually remembers what he was like as a player. People see the highlight reels, where no one ever misses a shot, and they see the stat totals from those early years. That limited record becomes the reality.


It's funny how someone said Elgin was one of the most underrated players of all time. I think he's somewhat overrated.

I'm not entirely sure why Baylor is remember more than Bob Pettit, whose career was superior in my opinion.


IMO Pettit was great BUT he wasn't a Laker.


That does explain the extra enthusiam for Elgin on LG
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
pio2u wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:

None of this is to suggest that he was a garbage player. He probably belongs in the second 25 of all time. Curiously, I think he benefits from the fact that almost no one actually remembers what he was like as a player. People see the highlight reels, where no one ever misses a shot, and they see the stat totals from those early years. That limited record becomes the reality.


It's funny how someone said Elgin was one of the most underrated players of all time. I think he's somewhat overrated.

I'm not entirely sure why Baylor is remember more than Bob Pettit, whose career was superior in my opinion.


IMO Pettit was great BUT he wasn't a Laker.


That does explain the extra enthusiam for Elgin on LG


BINGO
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
I'm not entirely sure why Baylor is remember more than Bob Pettit, whose career was superior in my opinion.


Pettit played his entire career for a team that no longer exists. That's a damned shame. He did get a statue, though -- at LSU.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Baylor kind of got screwed because he never won a ring. His career was entirely during the Celtic's domination period and nobody else could really compete.

It was so ironic that upon Baylor's retirement, the Lakers went on a tare that has still not been duplicated to this day. 33 wins in a row! McMillian replaced Baylor and did a great job. Since I really caught Baylor at the end of his career and was an avid Jerry West fan, not so much a Laker fan back then, I never really understood how great he was. On the other hand, the Lakers went on that streak and I became a huge Lakers fan then. Weird because I watched Jerry West his whole career and really never noticed much besides him. I liked Goodrich too. I was really really young when I started watching West, like 4 years old. Just had a fascination. It took me years to really develop a more complex appreciation for the game itself. Being a fan of West was like being a fan of Zorro or Superman. He was a hero for me.

Unfortunately by the time I started looking deeper at the game and at the team, Baylor was on his last legs and to me it just appeared that when he retired we got a whole ton better. It was just the timing of everything but I suspect that the timing is what held Baylor back in many peoples perceptions.

Now that we can go back and look at things objectively, we can see what so many have said, the man was one great player who has been under acknowledged by many.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:19 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
That is why you don’t compare those stats with today.


But people do all the time. Which is why I made the point.

When people mention Baylor's scoring and rebounding averages, they rarely put those averages in the context of his time.

In this thread we had people compare Baylor's scoring averages in the early 60s to Jordan's in the mid-80s without a hint that they weren't comparable because of the differences in eras.


I learned to love the Lakers because of Baylor. He was just Magical to watch as few players ever are. Magic was like that for me and Kobe too. It wasn't just the stats he was awesome to watch. Jordan was like that and so was Dr J.

I been watching basketball a long time and I really appreciate those guys that are just magical on the court. Baylor was one of those guys and the first one I ever saw.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject:

oldlakerfan wrote:
activeverb wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
That is why you don’t compare those stats with today.


But people do all the time. Which is why I made the point.

When people mention Baylor's scoring and rebounding averages, they rarely put those averages in the context of his time.

In this thread we had people compare Baylor's scoring averages in the early 60s to Jordan's in the mid-80s without a hint that they weren't comparable because of the differences in eras.


I learned to love the Lakers because of Baylor. He was just Magical to watch as few players ever are. Magic was like that for me and Kobe too. It wasn't just the stats he was awesome to watch. Jordan was like that and so was Dr J.

I been watching basketball a long time and I really appreciate those guys that are just magical on the court. Baylor was one of those guys and the first one I ever saw.


That was it for me as well. Baylor defied the laws of physics.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject:

I may pick up his book. Was listening to Justin Termine's interview with him on XM and he had me cracking up with some of his anecdotes.

Lakers FO doing of good job of taking the focus away from our injury-plagued limp to the season's end.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Elgin was on Adam Carolla's podcast this past week....somewhat interesting interview....talked about the Lakers plane crash landing in 1960....Wilt's water bottles during the game being filled with 7Up, and Will belching all game, and a few other things...

Interview is in Part 2

http://adamcarolla.com/nba-legend-elgin-baylor/

older LA Times Article about Plane Crash Landing

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
Baylor kind of got screwed because he never won a ring. His career was entirely during the Celtic's domination period and nobody else could really compete.

It was so ironic that upon Baylor's retirement, the Lakers went on a tare that has still not been duplicated to this day. 33 wins in a row! McMillian replaced Baylor and did a great job. Since I really caught Baylor at the end of his career and was an avid Jerry West fan, not so much a Laker fan back then, I never really understood how great he was. On the other hand, the Lakers went on that streak and I became a huge Lakers fan then. Weird because I watched Jerry West his whole career and really never noticed much besides him. I liked Goodrich too. I was really really young when I started watching West, like 4 years old. Just had a fascination. It took me years to really develop a more complex appreciation for the game itself. Being a fan of West was like being a fan of Zorro or Superman. He was a hero for me.

Unfortunately by the time I started looking deeper at the game and at the team, Baylor was on his last legs and to me it just appeared that when he retired we got a whole ton better. It was just the timing of everything but I suspect that the timing is what held Baylor back in many peoples perceptions.

Now that we can go back and look at things objectively, we can see what so many have said, the man was one great player who has been under acknowledged by many.


Baylor and Chamberlain grappled for control of the team's direction and player loyalties for years. When Baylor retired, the personality clash between he and Wilt (which had prevented the team from reaching great harmony) instantly vaporized. Wilt felt he had control. Suddenly, Coach Sharman had Wilt's interest in doing what he'd been asked to do for years: deferring his own scoring line and helping the players around him, which was something Wilt would not do for Baylor. Very petty, poisonous stuff.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
Wino wrote:
Baylor kind of got screwed because he never won a ring. His career was entirely during the Celtic's domination period and nobody else could really compete.

It was so ironic that upon Baylor's retirement, the Lakers went on a tare that has still not been duplicated to this day. 33 wins in a row! McMillian replaced Baylor and did a great job. Since I really caught Baylor at the end of his career and was an avid Jerry West fan, not so much a Laker fan back then, I never really understood how great he was. On the other hand, the Lakers went on that streak and I became a huge Lakers fan then. Weird because I watched Jerry West his whole career and really never noticed much besides him. I liked Goodrich too. I was really really young when I started watching West, like 4 years old. Just had a fascination. It took me years to really develop a more complex appreciation for the game itself. Being a fan of West was like being a fan of Zorro or Superman. He was a hero for me.

Unfortunately by the time I started looking deeper at the game and at the team, Baylor was on his last legs and to me it just appeared that when he retired we got a whole ton better. It was just the timing of everything but I suspect that the timing is what held Baylor back in many peoples perceptions.

Now that we can go back and look at things objectively, we can see what so many have said, the man was one great player who has been under acknowledged by many.


Baylor and Chamberlain grappled for control of the team's direction and player loyalties for years. When Baylor retired, the personality clash between he and Wilt (which had prevented the team from reaching great harmony) instantly vaporized. Wilt felt he had control. Suddenly, Coach Sharman had Wilt's interest in doing what he'd been asked to do for years: deferring his own scoring line and helping the players around him, which was something Wilt would not do for Baylor. Very petty, poisonous stuff.


I was unaware of this, but Elgin eluded to it on the Carolla podcast.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:06 am    Post subject:

FYI:

The Lakers' next game after Baylor's retirement was the first of an NBA record of 33 consecutive wins.
The Lakers gave Baylor a championship ring even though he was officially retired.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:07 pm    Post subject:

Elgin Baylor encourages athletes to use their platforms for social activism

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Elgin Baylor with @YogiRoth on athletes using their voices to shed light on the things they believe in.

"The athletes control the show. They have the leverage to do all of this, so they should use their voice." #NBA #NBATwitter


https://lakersoutsiders.com/2018/05/17/elgin-baylor-lakers-athletes-social-activism/
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
Baylor kind of got screwed because he never won a ring. His career was entirely during the Celtic's domination period and nobody else could really compete.

It was so ironic that upon Baylor's retirement, the Lakers went on a tare that has still not been duplicated to this day. 33 wins in a row! McMillian replaced Baylor and did a great job. Since I really caught Baylor at the end of his career and was an avid Jerry West fan, not so much a Laker fan back then, I never really understood how great he was. On the other hand, the Lakers went on that streak and I became a huge Lakers fan then. Weird because I watched Jerry West his whole career and really never noticed much besides him. I liked Goodrich too. I was really really young when I started watching West, like 4 years old. Just had a fascination. It took me years to really develop a more complex appreciation for the game itself. Being a fan of West was like being a fan of Zorro or Superman. He was a hero for me.

Unfortunately by the time I started looking deeper at the game and at the team, Baylor was on his last legs and to me it just appeared that when he retired we got a whole ton better. It was just the timing of everything but I suspect that the timing is what held Baylor back in many peoples perceptions.

Now that we can go back and look at things objectively, we can see what so many have said, the man was one great player who has been under acknowledged by many.



I have a picture they gave out commemorating the 33 wins in row from that year after attending a Laker game at the Forum. I do remember Elgin retiring at the beginning of the season only to see the Lakers win 33 games in a row and take the chip ---

Did Elgin get 1/2 ring that year?
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
Wino wrote:
Baylor kind of got screwed because he never won a ring. His career was entirely during the Celtic's domination period and nobody else could really compete.

It was so ironic that upon Baylor's retirement, the Lakers went on a tare that has still not been duplicated to this day. 33 wins in a row! McMillian replaced Baylor and did a great job. Since I really caught Baylor at the end of his career and was an avid Jerry West fan, not so much a Laker fan back then, I never really understood how great he was. On the other hand, the Lakers went on that streak and I became a huge Lakers fan then. Weird because I watched Jerry West his whole career and really never noticed much besides him. I liked Goodrich too. I was really really young when I started watching West, like 4 years old. Just had a fascination. It took me years to really develop a more complex appreciation for the game itself. Being a fan of West was like being a fan of Zorro or Superman. He was a hero for me.

Unfortunately by the time I started looking deeper at the game and at the team, Baylor was on his last legs and to me it just appeared that when he retired we got a whole ton better. It was just the timing of everything but I suspect that the timing is what held Baylor back in many peoples perceptions.

Now that we can go back and look at things objectively, we can see what so many have said, the man was one great player who has been under acknowledged by many.



I have a picture they gave out commemorating the 33 wins in row from that year after attending a Laker game at the Forum. I do remember Elgin retiring at the beginning of the season only to see the Lakers win 33 games in a row and take the chip ---

Did Elgin get 1/2 ring that year?


The Lakers gave him a ring, which he later auctioned off.

As an FYI: An NBA franchise can give a ring to anyone they want -- former players, secretaries, pals of the owners. As far as I know, there is no requirement they give a ring to anyone, but they do by tradition.

So you can say Elgin received a ring, but he didn't really win a ring and it's hard to imagine it ever meant anything to him.
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