Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

 
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.

Fisher is another one.

Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject:

Pau Gasol

Kevin McHale


Anyone that's played with LeBron not named Wade, Bosh, and Kyrie
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject:

Kevin Durant.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Kevin Durant.

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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.

Fisher is another one.

Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.


Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...

Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.

That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.

And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.

Fisher is another one.

Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.


Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...

Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.

That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.

And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.


You could plug in almost any other similar caliber player to Pau at a similar stage in their careers and Kobe would still win or at least come close.

Chris Webber, Elton Brand, even LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.

Sure, Pau might have left, but he wouldn't have been a highly sought after max player by any serious contender.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:05 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.

Fisher is another one.

Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.


Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...

Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.

That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.

And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.


You could plug in almost any other similar caliber player to Pau at a similar stage in their careers and Kobe would still win or at least come close.

Chris Webber, Elton Brand, even LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.

Sure, Pau might have left, but he wouldn't have been a highly sought after max player by any serious contender.


If we hadn't gotten Pau, would we have gotten a comparable player? And if we had, would we still have won? I don't know. Sometimes things that work on paper don't work on the count. So I don't put a lot of stock in hypothetical guesses.

Anyway, nothing you said would change what I wrote in my post that you responded to
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

CandyCanes wrote:

You could plug in almost any other similar caliber player to Pau at a similar stage in their careers and Kobe would still win or at least come close.

Chris Webber, Elton Brand, even LaMarcus Aldridge, etc.


The same goes for Kobe. LeBron, Durant, Duncan, Dirk, etc. Maybe even Wade if healthy.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject:

I would never say a player owes all their success to another player....sure some players are more fortunate than others based on situation....but the players still went out on the court and had to perform at a high level.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

CandyCanes wrote:
Sure, Pau might have left, but he wouldn't have been a highly sought after max player by any serious contender.


What? He would have been a max player in a heartbeat. Pau has been an all-star twice since leaving the Lakers.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:13 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I would never say a player owes all their success to another player....sure some players are more fortunate than others based on situation....but the players still went out on the court and had to perform at a high level.


Actually, the two guys who jump to mind as benefiting the most from playing with a particular superstar teammate are Scottie Pippen and James Worthy. As honorable mention, I'd list all of the Hall of Fame teammates of Bill Russell with the possible exception of Havlicek.

But would I disparage any of those guys for this reason? No, for the reasons that you state. It's not like they sucked.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:47 pm    Post subject:

this is a bs concept
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:14 am    Post subject:

Oh man, any of prime Shaq's teammates. Turned Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott, Rick Fox into a pseudo-household names
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:48 am    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
this is a bs concept

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.

Fisher is another one.

Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.


Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...

Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.

That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.

And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.


Even if Pau stayed in Memphis he would be a basketball HOFer.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
this is a bs concept


Pretty much
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Wino wrote:
this is a bs concept


Pretty much


Like saying the earth is flat.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject:

This might be the dumbest premise Ive read on LG in a while.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Players who owe their entire careers/legacies to another player

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Pau Gasol is a big one. Without Kobe, he just would have been the best player on a bad team and nobody would have remembered him 10 years after he tired.

Fisher is another one.

Varejao and Tristan Thompson are up there as well.


Well, you're assuming that Pau would have stayed on Memphis, but who knows what his alternative path might have been. ... Anyway ...

Basically, it seems like all you're saying is that second- and third-bananas (or even lesser players) on teams that win two or three rings have their reputation boosted by that association.

That's unquestionably true. It's the halo effect. If we draft Terry Cummings rather than James Worthy, maybe Terry is in the Hall today, and not James. But who knows? It's all guesses.

And of course it does the other way. If we don't trade for Pau, we don't win those last two rings, and that significantly changes Kobe's reputation.

This is somewhat OT, but if we never got Pau, we probably would've missed the playoffs in 08, and Kobe would've left one way or another. Can you imagine the hit that Dr. Buss' reputation would've taken? Some would've then said he was simply lucky to buy the Lakers right when they drafted Magic and already had Kareem, and that he was extremely lucky that Riley became coach and then West became the GM. Those same people would've also said that when Buss had to build a team from scratch he screwed it up because both Shaq and Kobe wanted out.

Getting back to the topic, in this scenario, would it have been fair to say that Dr. Buss would've then owed most, if not all of his legacy to others?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject:

Would Kobe have been as good without having Jordan to model his game after?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject:

How many rings does Coach Madsen have again?

Well, I'm thinking he didn't earn them with his dancing skills...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject:

No such a thing.
The very idea is as substantive as unicorn farts.
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