Poll: Would you trade Bryant and Hart for DLO?
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Would you trade Hart and TBryant for DLO if the Nets called in the off season.
Yes!
17%
 17%  [ 37 ]
No!
82%
 82%  [ 176 ]
Total Votes : 213

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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Fisher was an integral piece of 5 Championship Teams.

We don't beat Boston or Orlando for that matter with out him...and he absolutely dismantled the Spurs in 2001.

I can't say that Hart is better than Fish...and why should anyone have to when we can love them both?


No doubt. The team needed Fisher. He was the glue guy and leader (both on the court and locker room). His timely shots sealed some of the most important games in Laker history. Hart definitely has it in him to fulfill that sort of role, because Lakers will need it during tough playoff situations. I think Hart will be better than Fisher as a basketball talent, but Fisher was also irreplaceable from a leader perspective. I'm very excited to see what the next few years will bring.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Wouldn't even trade Hart for Russell straight up, let alone throwing Bryant in there. I've said this before, but I was a huge Russell fan while he was here and hated to see him go. However, I'm not overly convinced that he's as driven as he needs to be in order to fulfill his potential. And if that never changes at some point in his career, his ceiling will likely be as a sixth man. I'll take a humble, hardworking guy like Hart who always plays as hard as he can and knows his role ten times out of ten over a player with intriguing potential who isn't truly committed. My doubts about Russell really don't have anything to do with his health.

And to be fair, can the OP’s actual question be answered? The question wasn’t about how we rate the Russell trade. It’s more of a comparative, hindsight question to gauge the combined value of Hart + Bryant vs Russell’s. That’s it. It muddies the waters of the intended discussion to go into a different direction (i.e. ‘we can’t know if the Russell trade was worth it until we see how free agency plays out’). That wasn’t even the question. 2018 free agency aside, would you trade Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant for D’Angelo Russell today if you could? That is the OP’s question.


Don't think it muddled the water. People still believe that its all about the free agent we can get this summer, but I believe that the flexibility now is a bonus. Argument still occurs that we still could have had Kuz even if we didn't trade DLo, I for a fact don't like assume he will still be there, but if we do have Kuz then we don't have Hart. Hart is just so fun to watch, all hard work and hustle and Hart > Dlo in my book. the flexibility we have now, to be able to go to different direction this summer is all gravy in my book, cause I don't mind watching this young core grow. (Ingram, Zo, Kuz, Hart and Randle) if unsuccessful in FA
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Frankly this analysis is too myopic.

It's year 1 for Hart; year 3 for DLO. How can folks be so conclusive either way about who is better long term?

And we're conflating issues here. Better overall talent? Or are stressing better overall fit?

Too soon to tell, which is why the FA benchmark is the more immediate and quantifiable factor.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Frankly this analysis is too myopic.

It's year 1 for Hart; year 3 for DLO. How can folks be so conclusive either way about who is better long term?

And we're conflating issues here. Better overall talent? Or are stressing better overall fit?

Too soon to tell, which is why the FA benchmark is the more immediate and quantifiable factor.


Yin.. love ya dawg.. but might you be over complicating a simple question because you like Russell so much?

No matter how many variables one might consider, for most Hart is a more attractive option.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Hart just gives me those Fisher vibes. Not the missed layup or get lit up by Bibby vibe, but he's got that magic and championship intangibles. It really seems to be an extension of his character and the grit he developed from playing under Jay Wright @ Villanova. He's exactly the kind of player you'd want around superstars. Probably the type of guy who would step up in game 3 of the finals, when our superstars are struggling.

As far as Russell - I still maintain he has star (maybe superstar) potential once he figures a few things out. New Jersey is probably the best place for him to maximize his potential.

comparing Hart to Fisher is selling him waaaay short. He's already better in his rookie year than what Fisher could have ever dreamed of being. I'd say a better comparison would be an prime Ariza with less length and athleticism but much more consistent shooting and ability to create his own shot when needed.


Oh, I think he'll be much better than Fisher and the less athletic Ariza and Wesley Matthews comps are also on point here.

It's Hart's intangibles and championship grit that remind me of Fisher. Keep in mind that Fisher started on 4 different championship squads. Despite not being the most talented or skilled player on the floor, he had a knack for getting the team out of tough situations. His leadership carried us at times. I think Hart can fulfill that role and even more in his prime. He's that guy who can augment BI and Kuz's game the way Fisher did for Kobe.

Hart seems to be cut from the same cloth as any of the role players who helped Kobe win titles, whether it was Fisher, Ariza, Rick Fox, Horry, Odom, etc. He'll have a long career in the NBA as a role player that elite teams would love to have.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Frankly this analysis is too myopic.

It's year 1 for Hart; year 3 for DLO. How can folks be so conclusive either way about who is better long term?

And we're conflating issues here. Better overall talent? Or are stressing better overall fit?

Too soon to tell, which is why the FA benchmark is the more immediate and quantifiable factor.


Yin.. love ya dawg.. but might you be over complicating a simple question because you like Russell so much?

No matter how many variables one might consider, for most Hart is a more attractive option.


Yin is conflicted between his love for the Lakers and his love of Russell. It's cool. No need to explain anything. Just pick your answer and live with the results. No matter what you'll still be LG top 10 all time. 👍🏿
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Frankly this analysis is too myopic.

It's year 1 for Hart; year 3 for DLO. How can folks be so conclusive either way about who is better long term?

And we're conflating issues here. Better overall talent? Or are stressing better overall fit?

Too soon to tell, which is why the FA benchmark is the more immediate and quantifiable factor.


Yin.. love ya dawg.. but might you be over complicating a simple question because you like Russell so much?

No matter how many variables one might consider, for most Hart is a more attractive option.


Yin is conflicted between his love for the Lakers and his love of Russell. It's cool. No need to explain anything. Just pick your answer and live with the results. No matter what you'll still be LG top 10 all time. 👍🏿

Oh it’s Lakers > DLO without hesitation. But I think this analysis is shaded towards a particular response to be honest. And I’ve been very effusive about the same office that traded DLO and trust them 100%.
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socalsp3
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:18 pm    Post subject:

Hart is a great role player. Dlo a horrible lead guard. Rather have the guy who is available and produces more relative to his contract.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject:

I think it’s safe to say that the results of this poll are pretty, well, lopsided.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject:

Don't need to actually answer this question. I just wonder who the 28 lost souls are.

Hart already looks like he's gonna have a Fish type of trajectory when this team becomes a real contender, and he had a better rookie year by far. Fish didn't have a trey as a rook. Hart's a better athlete and a more conceptually gifted defender than Fish. I think he's no doubt gonna be a huge cog as a role player in the years to come. Great teams need those. His ability to get boards at his size is the cherry on top. You take any boards you can get from 1s/2s. He's not a wuss when it comes to taking big shots either. Very centered and responsible lad. Superb pick.

D'Lo needs to start improving his weak spots. Third year passed without appreciable upticks. I soured on D'Lo quick, but I'm not basing my thoughts on his persona or behavior anymore. I don't have to. This is a strictly hoops based call.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't trade Hart alone for D-Lo, so needless to say, I wouldn't trade him plus another guy.
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tofulakers
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:19 am    Post subject:

What???
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
Don't need to actually answer this question. I just wonder who the 28 lost souls are.

Hart already looks like he's gonna have a Fish type of trajectory when this team becomes a real contender, and he had a better rookie year by far. Fish didn't have a trey as a rook. Hart's a better athlete and a more conceptually gifted defender than Fish. I think he's no doubt gonna be a huge cog as a role player in the years to come. Great teams need those. His ability to get boards at his size is the cherry on top. You take any boards you can get from 1s/2s. He's not a wuss when it comes to taking big shots either. Very centered and responsible lad. Superb pick.

D'Lo needs to start improving his weak spots. Third year passed without appreciable upticks. I soured on D'Lo quick, but I'm not basing my thoughts on his persona or behavior anymore. I don't have to. This is a strictly hoops based call.


If he's really on a Fish type trajectory, then I will pack his bags now. LOL! Hart will be much more than Fish, and that's the reason why I wouldn't deal him for D'Lo now. But I get what you're saying.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:31 am    Post subject:

Hart has turned out to be a terrific consolation, I will say. Obviously we still have to get at least George for the trade to fulfill its intentions. Another upshot of the exchange i will add is that DAR would have been up for a new contract next season and presented a significant cap hold. Hart is low cost control for 3 more years, and at a year older than DAR and 1/10th the expectations, he's definitely the better fit for the Dream Scenarios.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject:

If you are going on talent... DLO over Hart and the overrated Bryant.

Every team needs a big time closer, a person that wants the last shot and has the talent and swagger to make it. DLO has show signs of being that type of player.

But for every talented closer at the end of games (like Kobe), you value the lunchbox steady performers (like Fisher). I see both DLO and Hart the same way.

And... lets be honest, so many Laker fans crapped all over DLO when was he drafted because he wasn't Okafor... and then... the kid (youngest player in the draft) had to deal with an inept coach who didn't like him and Kobe's Farewell Tour. Yet, despite this, he was creating some magical moments, particularly at the end of games while bringing confidence and swagger back to the Lakers... something the team needed and Kobe had throughout his career.

With DLO and Hart (and even Bryant) being so young... and hindsight 20/20... the obvious right answer to this hypothetical trade may reveal itself in another year or so... but as of right now... I still think DLO's potential... if given a coach like Walton and the stability created on the team... is worth the trade.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:33 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Frankly this analysis is too myopic.

It's year 1 for Hart; year 3 for DLO. How can folks be so conclusive either way about who is better long term?

And we're conflating issues here. Better overall talent? Or are stressing better overall fit?

Too soon to tell, which is why the FA benchmark is the more immediate and quantifiable factor.


Yin.. love ya dawg.. but might you be over complicating a simple question because you like Russell so much?

No matter how many variables one might consider, for most Hart is a more attractive option.


Clarkson was more attractive than LaVine in their respective rookie years too.

And LaVine didn't deal with an injury he had to come back from.

Russell prior to the injury looked pretty much like the 3rd year leap that was expected. Since he came back from injury he never really seemed to get all the way back.

Prior to the injury he was averaging 20/5/6 after the injury he dropped off as he seemed to be trying to work his way back over the course of the season and never got fully there.

Hart closed the season stronger than the injured Russell. However considering the run he was on before he got hurt. I'll bet on Russell going forward when healthy will be a better version of the guy he was at the start of this season.

The only downside is you have to include 'if health permits' to the equation. With Hart you don't seem to have that problem.

as to who I think projects as a better player when healthy? Russell. Obviously.

As to who I think projects as the more reliable health wise? Hart at this point in time.

Hart fits precisely where he should. Backup 2, and starting 2 in a pinch. Could he be the next CJ McCollum? Maybe. But right now he fits perfect into the role he has.

What does Russell project as? All-star. But as I said, you need to add 'if health permits' to that now.

Would I trade Hart and Bryant for a healthy D'lo? Of course. Because a healthy D'lo projects to be an all-star level talent. Stick that next to Lonzo, Ingram and Randle and go off to the races.

This off-season will tell us a lot in terms of if any 'action' was needed, as to whether or not we sign a max free agent, and next season will tell us a lot in terms of D'lo's health to expect moving forward.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject:

I'm astonished anyone has voted yes in this poll. One of the worst trades ideas ever, and...what the F@#CK is wrong with people?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject:

I don't think he's a bust. I think he'll have a solid career. But Game of Zones is soo funny sometimes.

http://bleacherreport.com/post/gameofzones/f67a8372-d91d-44a6-9d20-cbd41b231e59
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I don't think he's a bust. I think he'll have a solid career. But Game of Zones is soo funny sometimes.

http://bleacherreport.com/post/gameofzones/f67a8372-d91d-44a6-9d20-cbd41b231e59


Yeah, I saw that. It was funny. Nets fans (didn't know they existed) on twitter responded by saying they won the trade because DLO scores 5 more points than Ball playing 10 less minutes. And here we are as Lakers fans arguing if we got Kuz or Hart in the trade. lol. The "educated" Nets fans think it's about Ball vs DLO. 😂

Edit... some of them were saying that the Nets young core > the Lakers young core. Yeah okay...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject:

M2K wrote:
If you are going on talent... DLO over Hart and the overrated Bryant.

Every team needs a big time closer, a person that wants the last shot and has the talent and swagger to make it. DLO has show signs of being that type of player.


no he hasn't. He made one shot, missed the rest. Last year going by nba's clutch metric (last 5 minutes of game with score within 5), russell was tied with nick young for last on the team (randle was first).
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject:

Nope.

I think Hart will be a great bench for a contending team and we don't know much about Bryant. He seems to have potential to be a good stretch five.

I killed Magic and Rob last summer when they traded D'Lo to Brooklyn. Boy, I was wrong on that.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject:

I wouldn't, because as said before, too many bridges have been burned. Plus, now that the team's identity and main core has been established, D'Angelo wouldn't fit the team since his role wouldn't be as clearly defined as it was last season.

I'm not ready to say that Josh Hart will be the better player than D'Angelo Russell in the long run yet, at least not until he can show that he can be a point forward. However, the fact that Hart doesn't want to be just a 3 and D guy is encouraging to me, and I'm anxious to see his progression.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject:

Definitely NOT! DLO showed me what I needed confirmed from what I saw in Los Angeles...he's just a scorer with solid vision. Nothing more. Josh is a much, much better player in his first year than DLO! So glad that guy is gone!
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject:

Heck no! DLO like the Sopranos is over, find a new show..
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:25 pm    Post subject:

Jiggling Jello wrote:
I wouldn't, because as said before, too many bridges have been burned. Plus, now that the team's identity and main core has been established, D'Angelo wouldn't fit the team since his role wouldn't be as clearly defined as it was last season.

I'm not ready to say that Josh Hart will be the better player than D'Angelo Russell in the long run yet, at least not until he can show that he can be a point forward. However, the fact that Hart doesn't want to be just a 3 and D guy is encouraging to me, and I'm anxious to see his progression.


Combo guard next to Lonzo to trade ball handling / passing responsibilities with in a situation where either could play on or off ball and keep the ball movement going between everyone else in an offense where you'd have the passing of Lonzo, Russell, Ingram and Randle on the fastest pace team in the league.


Do people really think they couldn't have just plugged in Russell at the 2 and that he wouldn't have fit perfectly next to Lonzo?


Oh well, next season if healthy he'll play pretty much the entire season as he started this season before he got hurt and the people whom try to define him by how he played whilst injured and coming off of injury will disappear.


Josh Hart playing well, or playing as well as people hope he eventually will would be the saving grace if we aren't able to get a max level free agent this off-season, because Bryant is 2 years away from being 2 years away.
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