The NBA Super Pac
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LakerSanity
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:00 am    Post subject: The NBA Super Pac

Can't sleep and thought of something. Has any fan base ever formed a super pac that in no way has any affiliation with the team they support?

For example, one must assume that the Lakers and the Knicks have one of the more wealthy fan bases. I'm sure they include millionaires, if not billionaires among their fans. Lets say one of those fans puts together a charitable organization - effectively a super pac - meant to collect money to entice premiere free agents to the team they support. This superpac collects $100 million dollars. It then contacts Rich Paul, Lebron's agent, and says "if you sign a 4 year, $80 million deal with the Lakers instead of the 4 year, $140 million deal you could demand, we'll not only make up the $60 million difference, but we will also give you an extra $40 million on top of that to compensate you for choosing to become a Laker."

Now that may be an extreme example, but the premise would still hold true for lesser free agents. Have only $10 million in cap room, but need a $15 million free agent? Entice them to come by offering them the difference and a little extra to make sure they pick the Lakers. With Randle next year, for example, offer him $28 million contigent on him signing a 4 year, $40 million deal next year. He makes his $17 million per, while saving the Lakers cap space and potential luxury tax.

The applications are really endless. From a legal standpoint, I'm not sure what the NBA could do to prevent this so long as one can demonstrably prove that the "super pac" has absolutely no affiliation or coordination with the team it supports. You're effectively creating a black free agent market. Second, of course, is finding enough donors, rich or otherwise, to be able to collect enough money to make a difference. While in politics, the money spent may result in some financial gain depending on who gets elected, in this instance, you're only spending money to ensure preferable entertainment. There probably aren't enough fanatics out there with the cash to burn to do this, but still an interesting thought.

I wonder if its ever been tried.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: The NBA Super Pac

LakerSanity wrote:
Can't sleep and thought of something. Has any fan base ever formed a super pac that in no way has any affiliation with the team they support?

For example, one must assume that the Lakers and the Knicks have one of the more wealthy fan bases. I'm sure they include millionaires, if not billionaires among their fans. Lets say one of those fans puts together a charitable organization - effectively a super pac - meant to collect money to entice premiere free agents to the team they support. This superpac collects $100 million dollars. It then contacts Rich Paul, Lebron's agent, and says "if you sign a 4 year, $80 million deal with the Lakers instead of the 4 year, $140 million deal you could demand, we'll not only make up the $60 million difference, but we will also give you an extra $40 million on top of that to compensate you for choosing to become a Laker."

Now that may be an extreme example, but the premise would still hold true for lesser free agents. Have only $10 million in cap room, but need a $15 million free agent? Entice them to come by offering them the difference and a little extra to make sure they pick the Lakers. With Randle next year, for example, offer him $28 million contigent on him signing a 4 year, $40 million deal next year. He makes his $17 million per, while saving the Lakers cap space and potential luxury tax.

The applications are really endless. From a legal standpoint, I'm not sure what the NBA could do to prevent this so long as one can demonstrably prove that the "super pac" has absolutely no affiliation or coordination with the team it supports. You're effectively creating a black free agent market. Second, of course, is finding enough donors, rich or otherwise, to be able to collect enough money to make a difference. While in politics, the money spent may result in some financial gain depending on who gets elected, in this instance, you're only spending money to ensure preferable entertainment. There probably aren't enough fanatics out there with the cash to burn to do this, but still an interesting thought.

I wonder if its ever been tried.


Set aside the fact that there arent people who want to give away a hundred million dollars like this, nor the challenges of pulling this off well keeping the team completely oblivious.

If you could do something like this, why wouldn't the players and their agents want a full Max contract as well as having the Super PAC throw-in money on top of it? Why would they be satisfied with just getting the same amount of money that they could get from a team?

Practically speaking, I have to imagine the rules of the NBA would allow the commissioner to void the contract if he found something like this happened. Generally, commissioners have pretty broad powers to protect the sanctity of the game against this sort of hanky panky
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:17 am    Post subject:

This happens all the time in the context of the NCAA. That sounds like a joke, but it really isn't.

This also happens in pro sports, but in a slightly different context. We sometimes hear that Sponsor X will pay Player A more money if Player A signs for a particular team or with a team in a particular city.

If the Player Action Committee idea ever happened, the leagues would deal with it in the CBA. The owners have occasionally threatened to drag endorsement revenue into the CBA. This would be the same concept.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject:

The premise would be that only certain fan bases would be able to afford it. The players wouldn't have the leverage to ask for the max plus the PAC money because that would defeat the purpose of the PAC. There may be negotiation involved in such a scenario (if it ever existed), but that's why the players couldn't ask for both. And, as far fetched as it is, it only takes a few billionaires who care enough about a specific team to try it. Maybe some Saudi prince or something.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:47 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
The premise would be that only certain fan bases would be able to afford it. The players wouldn't have the leverage to ask for the max plus the PAC money because that would defeat the purpose of the PAC. There may be negotiation involved in such a scenario (if it ever existed), but that's why the players couldn't ask for both. And, as far fetched as it is, it only takes a few billionaires who care enough about a specific team to try it. Maybe some Saudi prince or something.


LOL. So all it takes is finding a Saudi Prince who will drop a hundred million dollars because he cares if LeBron plays for the Lakers?

That should be a piece of cake

Seriously, it is kind of funny how many people around here have such dreams about cap circumvention. Seems like there is at least one cap circumvention scenario every day
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:57 am    Post subject:

Wow, love your condescension. Do you actually believe I think this is going to happen? I'm musing an idea/concept. That's all this was. Again, its far fetched, but crazier things have happened. But you win internet police.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Wow, love your condescension. Do you actually believe I think this is going to happen? I'm musing an idea/concept. That's all this was. Again, its far fetched, but crazier things have happened. But you win internet police.


It's activeverb; what did you expect? Dude does nothing but try to antagonize others constantly.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:50 am    Post subject:

Another thing I've wondered is this... Why can't owners have a sort of gentleman's agreement with their star players and ask them to take a discount now in exchange for some high-paid sinecure (player development consultant, etc.) in the future? It would be impossible to prove that the two were related.

Sort of what I suspect Cuban is doing with Dirk right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject:

Super Pacs try to get their candidates elected because it will later create more wealth for themselves. So, this sports-team oriented one wouldn't make sense, as it would benefit the Pac in an economic sense. If it were just for their pure enjoyment, then why wouldn't they just pool their money and buy the team?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject:

The commissioners office and the owners of pretty much all teams except the Lakers and Knicks would shut down this idea pretty quickly.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Wow, love your condescension. Do you actually believe I think this is going to happen? I'm musing an idea/concept. That's all this was. Again, its far fetched, but crazier things have happened. But you win internet police.


Hey. If you can muse about a wacky concept that you don't believe is going to happen, I feel quite comfortable in having a little fun with it.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Wow, love your condescension. Do you actually believe I think this is going to happen? I'm musing an idea/concept. That's all this was. Again, its far fetched, but crazier things have happened. But you win internet police.


It's activeverb; what did you expect? Dude does nothing but try to antagonize others constantly.


Ha! Everyone knows you are just a poor man's version of me. You owe your entire posting career/legacy to me.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:56 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Wow, love your condescension. Do you actually believe I think this is going to happen? I'm musing an idea/concept. That's all this was. Again, its far fetched, but crazier things have happened. But you win internet police.


It's activeverb; what did you expect? Dude does nothing but try to antagonize others constantly.


Ha! Everyone knows you are just a poor man's version of me. You owe your entire posting career/legacy to me.


This means that CC is your fault, you know? Damn you.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
Wow, love your condescension. Do you actually believe I think this is going to happen? I'm musing an idea/concept. That's all this was. Again, its far fetched, but crazier things have happened. But you win internet police.


It's activeverb; what did you expect? Dude does nothing but try to antagonize others constantly.


Ha! Everyone knows you are just a poor man's version of me. You owe your entire posting career/legacy to me.


This means that CC is your fault, you know? Damn you.


Hey, without CC, LG would never even have considered whether Jahlil Okafor is a poor man's version of Brook Lopez.

It would be like stripping philosophy of Plato; we'd all be poorer for it.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Another thing I've wondered is this... Why can't owners have a sort of gentleman's agreement with their star players and ask them to take a discount now in exchange for some high-paid sinecure (player development consultant, etc.) in the future? It would be impossible to prove that the two were related.

Sort of what I suspect Cuban is doing with Dirk right now.


Gosh, I wonder why no one ever thought of that.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q106
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Another thing I've wondered is this... Why can't owners have a sort of gentleman's agreement with their star players and ask them to take a discount now in exchange for some high-paid sinecure (player development consultant, etc.) in the future? It would be impossible to prove that the two were related.

Sort of what I suspect Cuban is doing with Dirk right now.


Gosh, I wonder why no one ever thought of that.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q106


I'll never forget when Dennis Rodman was thinking about joining the Lakers. The Lakers could only give him the minimum salary, so Rodman's reps asked Jerry West to use his Hollywood connections to get Rodman a movie deal. West reported the request to the league, and the agent was barred from representing NBA players.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
The commissioners office and the owners of pretty much all teams except the Lakers and Knicks would shut down this idea pretty quickly.


There is already a rule against it in the CBA. The league scrutinizes all non- salary revenue. They employ their own team of investigators.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
The commissioners office and the owners of pretty much all teams except the Lakers and Knicks would shut down this idea pretty quickly.


There is already a rule against it in the CBA. The league scrutinizes all non- salary revenue. They employ their own team of investigators.


But doesn't that rule only apply to people connected to or affiliated with the team? If I own a business and I offer money without the Lakers' knowledge, influence or consent, how do you stop me? You certainly can't punish the team for it. The only way to stop it is to prevent the player from taking the money the same way the NCAA does with its athletes.

And, while it is unlikely to ever happen, there are rich people out there crazy enough to try it. The same people who pay a singer millions of dollars for an appearance at some party in Dubai.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:45 pm    Post subject:

It sounds kid of out there at first, but there was so much talk about Kevin Durant's mythical "LA or New York market" clause in his shoe contract that was going to bump up his salary (Would it allowed for a shoe company to have some kind of a deal?). It wouldn't be much different for a super pac. You could hire them to do LA tourism ads and pay them $50M for a 30 second spot.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
But doesn't that rule only apply to people connected to or affiliated with the team? If I own a business and I offer money without the Lakers' knowledge, influence or consent, how do you stop me? You certainly can't punish the team for it.


Sure you could. The Commissioner has very brought powers: "Where a situation arises which is not covered in the Constitution and By-Laws, the Commissioner shall have the authority to make such decision, including the imposition of a penalty, as in his judgment shall be in the best interests of the Association."

If the commissioner determined that a team unknowingly benefitted from cap circumvention, he could theoretically decide it was "in the best interests of the Association" to take away draft picks or otherwise penalize them.

Teams have limited ability to appeal the commissioner's decision. Whether the commissioner could void the contract is a different matter, since that falls under the CBA.

That said, if I were an agent or player I sure wouldn't do what you're describing in secret and take a chance. I'd tell the league and run it by them.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:08 pm    Post subject:

As a sports fan, I wouldn't want a system where anything even resembling the 1% controlling the rosters of teams existed.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject:

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
It sounds kid of out there at first, but there was so much talk about Kevin Durant's mythical "LA or New York market" clause in his shoe contract that was going to bump up his salary


I know this rumor floated around, but I don't really buy it. When you look at endorsement deals, the size of the city doesn't correlate to who makes the most money. From what I've read, most shoe contracts are based primarily on bonuses for accomplishments, like making an all-star team.

dont_be_a_wuss wrote:
You could hire them to do LA tourism ads and pay them $50M for a 30 second spot.


The NBA is onto this sort of thing. After Dirk retired, the Mavs could hire him as an assistant coach at an average assistant coach salary, but if they paid him $10 million the NBA would consider it cap circumvention and a delayed payment.

Heck, when Rodman joined the Mavs late in his career, he stayed in Cuban's guest house -- and the NBA required Rodman to pay market-value rent so he wouldn't get free accommodations outside the bounds of his contract.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject:

Here's a more realistic scenario. Someone not connected with the Lakers sees a way to make some money if, say, Lebron is a Laker. This could be a movie studio or some other sort of business that sees a major marketing opportunity and thinks that having Lebron in a Laker jersey would be worth a substantial amount of money.

So Company X says to Lebron, "Here is a nice, big juicy deal for you, but we need you to be a Laker. If the Lakers can't give you the salary you want, come talk to us. We can cover the difference in your contract with us."

Would that be circumvention? Probably not. Is that scenario likely to happen? Not with Lebron, but something along those lines may have happened with Beckham and Ibrahimović. It's hard to tell, because the antonym of transparency is "MLS." Also, there are unique marketing opportunities for European soccer players in the US, because they normally don't play here except in summer exhibitions. I don't know that Lebron would generate those sorts of opportunities.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:51 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Another thing I've wondered is this... Why can't owners have a sort of gentleman's agreement with their star players and ask them to take a discount now in exchange for some high-paid sinecure (player development consultant, etc.) in the future? It would be impossible to prove that the two were related.

Sort of what I suspect Cuban is doing with Dirk right now.


I guess it requires a LOT of trust and there really can't be any written record of such a thing. Also it probably just has to be between the player, owner and maybe the agent.

Otherwise see Timberwolves, Joe Smith and 5 lost draft picks.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject:

Vanquish wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Another thing I've wondered is this... Why can't owners have a sort of gentleman's agreement with their star players and ask them to take a discount now in exchange for some high-paid sinecure (player development consultant, etc.) in the future? It would be impossible to prove that the two were related.

Sort of what I suspect Cuban is doing with Dirk right now.


I guess it requires a LOT of trust and there really can't be any written record of such a thing. Also it probably just has to be between the player, owner and maybe the agent.

Otherwise see Timberwolves, Joe Smith and 5 lost draft picks.


Plus it's against NBA rules. If the NBA found out, the the owner would get a long suspension, a huge fine, and his team would lose a lot of draft picks. The agent would be barred from ever representing NBA players again.
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