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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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strong9 wrote: | lakers4life78 wrote: | LakerLanny wrote: | Ainge trades Garnett, Pierce and sets his team for the future.
Mitch let's Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard walk for nothing. |
In 2013, Ainge assessed his roster and decided to rebuild. In effect, the Garnett and Pierce Nets deal landed them Brown, Tatum, Irving (with selling high on IT), and the Sacramento first in 2019. That will go down in history as one of worst/best deals in NBA history. They also hired a brilliant coach, flipped the culture, and won enough to land free agents like Hayward and Horford.
You don't have to like the Celtics, but this is brilliant team building.
Lakers should have punted after Kobe tore his Achilles in 2013 and Howard bolted. They decided to reward Kobe with a parting gift 2 year contract. They hung on to guys like Gasol for no reason when they were clearly done as a contender. They pitched Carmelo for some reason.
Yes, the Lakers "took care of their own." But it hasn't paid off in terms of success or free agency.
That's why I appreciate Maginka dealing guys Russell and Clarkson rather then clinging on to them until it's too late. It's better to be in front of the curve rather than behind it. |
Exactly how I feel...Celtics are a model for the Lakers to shoot at |
ftfy |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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They traded Pau and Odom at the perfect time. Not their fault that Cuban, Dan Gilbert and Jordan had a temper tantrum about the Lakers saving money. |
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PayasoLoco Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001 Posts: 16663
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | They traded Pau and Odom at the perfect time. Not their fault that Cuban, Dan Gilbert and Jordan had a temper tantrum about the Lakers saving money. |
then he gave up. Still could have traded Gasol and odom for assests. Instead he gave odom away to dallas and held onto gasol too long |
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Shecky Sixth Man
Joined: 03 Jul 2016 Posts: 85
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: |
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JerryWest_44 wrote: | TrekLife wrote: | The Celtics doing this well without Brown, Hayward and Kyrie is unbelievable. They are going to be a force next season |
easy Datsun they’re playing in the East - both teams get lapped in the west |
Really? Cuz I fail to see what's so great about the West. It's a two-team conference. Portland finished 3rd in the regular season...and you don't think BOS and PHI could play with those guys? Utah? New Orleans?
Gimme a break.
Late in the season Boston won @Portland and @Utah on the same road trip without Irving, Hayward and Smart. They also split with Golden State and Houston this year. LOL at "lapped in the West." |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Shecky wrote: | JerryWest_44 wrote: | TrekLife wrote: | The Celtics doing this well without Brown, Hayward and Kyrie is unbelievable. They are going to be a force next season |
easy Datsun they’re playing in the East - both teams get lapped in the west |
Really? Cuz I fail to see what's so great about the West. It's a two-team conference. Portland finished 3rd in the regular season...and you don't think BOS and PHI could play with those guys? Utah? New Orleans?
Gimme a break.
Late in the season Boston won @Portland and @Utah on the same road trip without Irving, Hayward and Smart. They also split with Golden State and Houston this year. LOL at "lapped in the West." |
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Ziggy Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 12712
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:35 am Post subject: |
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PayasoLoco wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | They traded Pau and Odom at the perfect time. Not their fault that Cuban, Dan Gilbert and Jordan had a temper tantrum about the Lakers saving money. |
then he gave up. Still could have traded Gasol and odom for assests. Instead he gave odom away to dallas and held onto gasol too long |
They didn't give up. Odom had a complete meltdown for the ages in front of the entire world after the veto. He refused to report to the team and bashed the organization publicly. His value was a negative at that point. At least they got a trade exception out of him.
Pau came back to the team, credit to his professionalism, but he was never the same. Teams only offered 2nd round picks at that point. Would've been a disgrace to trade away a champion for a 2nd round pick.
I don't often defend Mitch, but that trade veto was a franchise killer. It set back our rebuild by at least 5 years. Getting tired of this board fellating Ainge like he's some genius.
It was just sheer bad luck that the CBA - designed to take power away from big markets - had just been approved. It was a bad look, and Stern had to show the owners that years of negotiating wasn't all just a farce. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:09 am Post subject: |
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VicXLakers wrote: | Shecky wrote: | JerryWest_44 wrote: | TrekLife wrote: | The Celtics doing this well without Brown, Hayward and Kyrie is unbelievable. They are going to be a force next season |
easy Datsun they’re playing in the East - both teams get lapped in the west |
Really? Cuz I fail to see what's so great about the West. It's a two-team conference. Portland finished 3rd in the regular season...and you don't think BOS and PHI could play with those guys? Utah? New Orleans?
Gimme a break.
Late in the season Boston won @Portland and @Utah on the same road trip without Irving, Hayward and Smart. They also split with Golden State and Houston this year. LOL at "lapped in the West." |
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Boston was 22-8 against the West this year. Is that true? |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11749
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: |
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lakers4life78 wrote: | LakerLanny wrote: | Ainge trades Garnett, Pierce and sets his team for the future.
Mitch let's Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard walk for nothing. |
In 2013, Ainge assessed his roster and decided to rebuild. In effect, the Garnett and Pierce Nets deal landed them Brown, Tatum, Irving (with selling high on IT), and the Sacramento first in 2019. That will go down in history as one of worst/best deals in NBA history. They also hired a brilliant coach, flipped the culture, and won enough to land free agents like Hayward and Horford.
You don't have to like the Celtics, but this is brilliant team building.
Lakers should have punted after Kobe tore his Achilles in 2013 and Howard bolted. They decided to reward Kobe with a parting gift 2 year contract. They hung on to guys like Gasol for no reason when they were clearly done as a contender. They pitched Carmelo for some reason.
Yes, the Lakers "took care of their own." But it hasn't paid off in terms of success or free agency.
That's why I appreciate Maginka dealing guys Russell and Clarkson rather then clinging on to them until it's too late. It's better to be in front of the curve rather than behind it. |
Ainge also selected Tatum and Brown, both of whom are starters during this surprised playoff run. I hate the Celtics but you have to give Ainge a lot of credits for an amazing rebuild. The Lakers and Celtics were both in the 2010 NBA Finals. Eight years later, Lakers are still a lottery team and the Celtics are winning playoff games even without their stars. I hope the Magicka era will bring the Lakers back to glory in the foreseeable future. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11749
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: |
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With the current Boston playoff roster, except for Horford, everyone else is making $5M or less. Brad Stevens gave new meaning to the saying "make lemonade out of lemons."
Here we are, chasing not one. Not two. But three supermax so we could become a playoff team
So.... do we really need all these "superstars" in order to make us better? Luke is a good coach but if he was better, maybe he could have made lemonade out of lemons as well? Maybe if Lonzo and BI was better, we would have made the playoffs? _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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E=MC² Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2010 Posts: 11041
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | With the current Boston playoff roster, except for Horford, everyone else is making $5M or less. Brad Stevens gave new meaning to the saying "make lemonade out of lemons."
Here we are, chasing not one. Not two. But three supermax so we could become a playoff team
So.... do we really need all these "superstars" in order to make us better? Luke is a good coach but if he was better, maybe he could have made lemonade out of lemons as well? Maybe if Lonzo and BI was better, we would have made the playoffs? |
Luke is garbage. He under achieved this year |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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lakersfever714 wrote: | lakers4life78 wrote: | LakerLanny wrote: | Ainge trades Garnett, Pierce and sets his team for the future.
Mitch let's Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard walk for nothing. |
In 2013, Ainge assessed his roster and decided to rebuild. In effect, the Garnett and Pierce Nets deal landed them Brown, Tatum, Irving (with selling high on IT), and the Sacramento first in 2019. That will go down in history as one of worst/best deals in NBA history. They also hired a brilliant coach, flipped the culture, and won enough to land free agents like Hayward and Horford.
You don't have to like the Celtics, but this is brilliant team building.
Lakers should have punted after Kobe tore his Achilles in 2013 and Howard bolted. They decided to reward Kobe with a parting gift 2 year contract. They hung on to guys like Gasol for no reason when they were clearly done as a contender. They pitched Carmelo for some reason.
Yes, the Lakers "took care of their own." But it hasn't paid off in terms of success or free agency.
That's why I appreciate Maginka dealing guys Russell and Clarkson rather then clinging on to them until it's too late. It's better to be in front of the curve rather than behind it. |
Ainge also selected Tatum and Brown, both of whom are starters during this surprised playoff run. I hate the Celtics but you have to give Ainge a lot of credits for an amazing rebuild. The Lakers and Celtics were both in the 2010 NBA Finals. Eight years later, Lakers are still a lottery team and the Celtics are winning playoff games even without their stars. I hope the Magicka era will bring the Lakers back to glory in the foreseeable future. |
Ainge actually got something for KG and PP which helped set them up.
Lakers couldnt bring themselves to let go of Gasol and Kobe. |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | VicXLakers wrote: | Shecky wrote: | JerryWest_44 wrote: | TrekLife wrote: | The Celtics doing this well without Brown, Hayward and Kyrie is unbelievable. They are going to be a force next season |
easy Datsun they’re playing in the East - both teams get lapped in the west |
Really? Cuz I fail to see what's so great about the West. It's a two-team conference. Portland finished 3rd in the regular season...and you don't think BOS and PHI could play with those guys? Utah? New Orleans?
Gimme a break.
Late in the season Boston won @Portland and @Utah on the same road trip without Irving, Hayward and Smart. They also split with Golden State and Houston this year. LOL at "lapped in the West." |
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Boston was 22-8 against the West this year. Is that true? |
The Rockets and the Warriors were 24-6 against the east...the Lakers were 16-14 against the least
http://www.espn.com/nba/standings/_/view/vs-division |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:32 am Post subject: |
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VicXLakers wrote: | epak wrote: | VicXLakers wrote: | Shecky wrote: | JerryWest_44 wrote: | TrekLife wrote: | The Celtics doing this well without Brown, Hayward and Kyrie is unbelievable. They are going to be a force next season |
easy Datsun they’re playing in the East - both teams get lapped in the west |
Really? Cuz I fail to see what's so great about the West. It's a two-team conference. Portland finished 3rd in the regular season...and you don't think BOS and PHI could play with those guys? Utah? New Orleans?
Gimme a break.
Late in the season Boston won @Portland and @Utah on the same road trip without Irving, Hayward and Smart. They also split with Golden State and Houston this year. LOL at "lapped in the West." |
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Boston was 22-8 against the West this year. Is that true? |
The Rockets and the Warriors were 24-6 against the east...the Lakers were 16-14 against the least
http://www.espn.com/nba/standings/_/view/vs-division |
Based on that, are you saying the Celtics would get "lapped" in the west? |
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levon Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 10602
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:50 am Post subject: |
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levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
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VicXLakers Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 11823
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
9 teams in the west had winning records against the east...only 5 in the east had better than .500 against the west |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: |
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VicXLakers wrote: | epak wrote: | levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
9 teams in the west had winning records against the east...only 5 in the east had better than .500 against the west |
I guess I can't follow your logic since Boston had a winning record against the West. And not just a slight wins overs losses. But a significant winning %. I mean, if Boston was .500 or less against the west, I'd understand your theme. |
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levon Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 10602
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
In my opinion they'd be dominated by Houston, GS, and last year's Cavs team. |
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Shecky Sixth Man
Joined: 03 Jul 2016 Posts: 85
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:07 am Post subject: |
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VicXLakers wrote: | epak wrote: | levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
9 teams in the west had winning records against the east...only 5 in the east had better than .500 against the west |
Who cares? Now Brooklyn and the Knicks are part of this equation?
This has nothing to do with the subject.
How would PHI and BOS do against the West was the question.
Let's face it; against expectations, OKC and Minn turned out to be average teams.
The West is better than the East for sure but the West also wasn't great. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: |
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levon wrote: | epak wrote: | levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
In my opinion they'd be dominated by Houston, GS, and last year's Cavs team. |
For argument's sake, lets says Houston and GS dominate Boston.
So 2 teams out of the west.
In essence, they wouldn't be lapped by the West. But only by 2 teams in the entire league as last year's Cavs dont exist. |
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levon Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2016 Posts: 10602
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: |
For argument's sake, lets says Houston and GS dominate Boston.
So 2 teams out of the west.
In essence, they wouldn't be lapped by the West. But only by 2 teams in the entire league as last year's Cavs dont exist. |
I also think had Kawhi not gone down, they'd have been dominated by the Spurs too. I think the injuries threw everything out of whack.
Ranked by SRS:
Rockets 8.21
Raptors 7.29
Warriors 5.79
Jazz 4.47
76ers 4.3
Thunder 3.42
Celtics 3.23
SRS isn't everything but is a better way to look at team strength when considering strength of opponent, which you absolutely need to do when comparing across conferences. W/L is almost like using FG% to measure efficiency.
And the argument is that they'd be lapped by the West, which has two teams so historically dominant that there's very little chance anyone else would represent the West. So I think it's safe to say. |
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Shecky Sixth Man
Joined: 03 Jul 2016 Posts: 85
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:26 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | levon wrote: | epak wrote: | levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Does "lapped" mean "dont win a title?"
Because, "lapped" to me means, the west is so much better than they'll be on lap 2 by the time Boston is still on lap 1, as in DOMINATE.
Maybe my definition is different from you guys. Because all I'm saying is that Boston won't be "lapped." Not saying they're gonna be champs. |
In my opinion they'd be dominated by Houston, GS, and last year's Cavs team. |
For argument's sake, lets says Houston and GS dominate Boston.
So 2 teams out of the west.
In essence, they wouldn't be lapped by the West. But only by 2 teams in the entire league as last year's Cavs dont exist. |
Thank you. Not sure what "last year's Cavs" have to do with anything.
And since BOS went 1-1 against both Houston and GSW it's kinda difficult to say they'd get "lapped" in the Western Conference.
Not suggesting they're better than HOU or GSW (they're not.)
The problem here is clearly the use of the word "lapped."
And since Boston was 22-8 against the West, I'm not suggesting it's the wrong word, I'm guaranteeing it's the wrong word. |
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lakersfever714 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Jan 2016 Posts: 11749
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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levon wrote: | The Celtics will get lapped once they face real superstars like Lebron or the guys out West. Stars win you titles ultimately, with very few short-lived exceptions. And they're gonna go 6 or 7 with Philly and I'm still taking Philly. |
Well, if they could beat those teams and win the championship, then we would have to re-think the whole thing about superstars. The Celtics have already overachieved with the group of guys that they have. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Toronto rarely wins game 1s.
But I'm taking them by 7 points today. You? |
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eureca Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 15822
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Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ziggy wrote: | PayasoLoco wrote: | Ziggy wrote: | They traded Pau and Odom at the perfect time. Not their fault that Cuban, Dan Gilbert and Jordan had a temper tantrum about the Lakers saving money. |
then he gave up. Still could have traded Gasol and odom for assests. Instead he gave odom away to dallas and held onto gasol too long |
They didn't give up. Odom had a complete meltdown for the ages in front of the entire world after the veto. He refused to report to the team and bashed the organization publicly. His value was a negative at that point. At least they got a trade exception out of him.
Pau came back to the team, credit to his professionalism, but he was never the same. Teams only offered 2nd round picks at that point. Would've been a disgrace to trade away a champion for a 2nd round pick.
I don't often defend Mitch, but that trade veto was a franchise killer. It set back our rebuild by at least 5 years. Getting tired of this board fellating Ainge like he's some genius.
It was just sheer bad luck that the CBA - designed to take power away from big markets - had just been approved. It was a bad look, and Stern had to show the owners that years of negotiating wasn't all just a farce. |
Yea it was not as if the Lakers weren't willing to trade Pau. There was just no good offers. Teams that could have used Pau to make a run and had the expiring contracts necessary wouldn't even offer a protected 1st rounder. I think at least at that time teams were not willing to help the Lakers.
These butthurt owners had to have had talks about not helping the Lakers after that failed CP3 trade. All these smaller market teams ask the Lakers for handouts with revenue sharing but still have a stick in their ass about them.
Danny is clearly great at his job but these stupid GM's give away unprotected 1st rounders to the Celtics like they're candy. I am sure when GM's talk to the Lakers they already have a negative thought in their head. Maybe that will change some with Magic/Pelinka. |
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