Keepers, Maybes, and Goners.
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CabinCreek44
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:50 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
So now that the season has officially come to a close for us, now seems to be a gone time thread on who you guys THINK will be here next year, who MIGHT be here, and who will be gone and go elsewhere?

The categories are 100% Keeping, Likely Keeping, Maybe, Likely Gone, 100% Gone. Remember, it’s WHO YOU THINK, NOT WHO SHOULD....in your opinion.

Anyway, here’s mine.

100% Keeping
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma

Most Likely Keeping
Julius Randle
Loul Deng (because no one else will take him)
Thomas Bryant
25th Pick
47th Pick

Maybe
IT (I think he SHOULD be 100% gone but this organization likes to give players 2nd and 3rd chances)

Likely Gone
Brook Lopez
Ivica Zubac
Travis Wear
Channing Frye
Caruso

100% Gone
KCP
Tyler Ennis
Gary Payton II
Andre Ingram (good luck man )


100% Keeping column, agreed 100%.

Most likely...Randle is still an enigma imo. He played well this season in a contract year, but there's still a lot of fat to his game, and there is no way his suspect ballhandling/multiple spin moves down in the paint beats a real defense in a playoff series. Thomas Bryant has shown promise in the D league so that should earn him another look next season.

Maybe...imo the org should absolutely try to keep IT, at least on a one or two year deal, IF they think his recovery will allow him to get back to the type of player he's capable of being. He is a bona fide NBA scorer and a tough minded competitor. Ball is a mixed bag right now who will not prosper unless he improves his shooting from both the field and foul line. Keeping Thomas is a good insurance policy for the club in case Ball can't fix the big weakness in his game. IT is a gamer, fearless, and he can make the right plays/decisions when he has the ball with the game on the line. The FO should be speaking with him about giving them a little time once the opening bell on free agency happens, and see how he feels about a short-term deal so both sides can evaluate how he fits into whatever we're going to be next season and beyond.

Likely gone...Lopez can be a credible NBA big, but not the way the Lakers' coaching staff chooses to use him. There's nothing more worthless in the NBA than a big lug camped out at the three point line waiting for someone to pass him the ball so he can launch another brick. If the org can sign him for the right price, they should consider bringing him back. Randle is of course our best low-post guy (assuming he's back), but Lopez can also score around the basket (not that he should be the first option if Julius is there), and that's where he should be at least part of the time, where he can be a low-post option when need be, and pick up some easy hoops on the inevitable putback opportunities. Not every player has to be 25 feet out waiting to chuck a 3. But if Randle returns, maybe Lopez isn't the right fit for this club.

KCP is a credible NBA player, but he's only a keeper for us at the right price.

The bottom line remains...if we yet again fail in free agency, mediocre is our best hope for next season. The front office has to get it done this summer. Plain and simple.
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Judah
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject:

MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:

Zubac, despite a solid rookie year, bombed it in SL and mostly stunk it up in every area this year whenever he did get minutes.


Among the best per-minute rebounders in the league. Still blocks a lot of shots, even if that has dipped from last season. Runs the floor hard. Draws fouls, knocks down the free throws. Catches, finishes strong. Is only 20. Damn.


Is any of this intended to describe things he does well on a consistent basis or merely things you’ve seen him him do before? I think we both know the answer to that.

He was awful for most of the year and played at least a little bit better at the tail end of it, but nothing noteworthy. The player he was this season isn’t worth keeping. Rookie Zubac, though? No doubt. As I’ve said before, the most obvious way to see his regression is to swap his sophomore year with his rookie year. In other words, if he played the way he did this year as a rookie, then played this year the way he did in his actual rookie year, we’d all be extremely impressed with his improvement. But that’s not what happened. Instead of taking two big steps forward, which a player is supposed to do as a sophomore, he took three huge steps backwards.

I get that people still have an emotional connection to Zubac due to his rookie year. I’m no different than anyone else in that sense. It was an outside chance, but I was hoping he’d develop into the franchise center of the club. But we’ve gotta face facts in this rebuild and just accept things for what they are when our “fan fantasies” don’t quite work out that way. There was nothing about Zubac’s play this year that makes a third year of him worth it.
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
As long as Lebron never wears a Laker jersey I dont really care.


concur --- Anthony Davis (down the road) or Kawhi/PG
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lakerfanaticPT
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject:

ToastedMuffins wrote:
100% Keeping
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma
Josh Hart

Most Likely Keeping
Julius Randle
Thomas Bryant
47th Pick

Maybe
Brook Lopez
Ivica Zubac
Luol Deng
25th Pick

Likely Gone
Isaiah Thomas
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Channing Frye
Tyler Ennis
Travis Wear
Gary Payton II
Alex Caruso
Andre Ingram

100% Gone
N/A


The keeping column is pretty self-explanatory. All 4 guys are young, extremely productive and on cost-controlled contracts. No reason to trade them away when we have more than enough cap space to attract any pending free agent going forward.

Randle will be target #1 in free agency for the Lakers. Hopefully they come with a competitive enough offer and lock him up early because the only chance the Lakers don't retain Randle is if the Mavericks (or another team) tender him an offer sheet starting at $18 million a year or more. Lakers would have to think hard about matching that. Thomas Bryant's team option is cheap enough that it won't effect free agency. He's still young enough that it would be difficult to justify not retaining him and continue his development. The Lakers scouting department is so great that our chances of finding a player that can contribute at the 47th pick is far more valuable than what we would likely get in return trading it away.

Assuming LeBron James and Paul George don't both come in free agency then I think Lopez is the most likely of our veterans to be sought to return. His ability to space the floor and box out are what played a huge part in allowing Randle to have the breakthrough season that he did. His return would be likely but it will depend on his offers around the league but with both cap space and a starting position available the Lakers should be able to trump pretty much any opposing offer. Zubac is in a similar position to Bryant but is older and less versatile. If the Lakers are put in a position where they need to decide between the two, I would predict they cut Zubac. I strongly feel that Deng and the 25th pick's fates are linked. If we find a trade partner for Deng, I expect that the 25th pick will be shipped out with him along with other assets. 50/50 chance this partner exists though.

Thomas and Caldwell-Pope are both going to be looking to start and I believe they'll find those roles with teams offering longer term contracts than we'll be willing to extend to them. Frye is at the point in his career that he'll be looking to ring-chase. He'll sign with a more competitive team for the minimum. Ennis, Ware, Payton, Caruso, and Ingram will all likely be renounced as I don't feel any of them performed to a point that they warrant holding onto our cap space. However, I don't feel that any of them were so disappointing that I wouldn't look into bringing them back on minimum salaries or two-way contracts should we need to fill out the roster.


This sounds like the most logical of the answers I read. I hope the Lakers have a real good idea what Lebron and PG are going to do and not let Randle walk for nothing. I think this is the biggest question mark and most important result of the off season.
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MickMgl
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:

Zubac, despite a solid rookie year, bombed it in SL and mostly stunk it up in every area this year whenever he did get minutes.


Among the best per-minute rebounders in the league. Still blocks a lot of shots, even if that has dipped from last season. Runs the floor hard. Draws fouls, knocks down the free throws. Catches, finishes strong. Is only 20. Damn.


Is any of this intended to describe things he does well on a consistent basis or merely things you’ve seen him him do before? I think we both know the answer to that.


If you're thinking "consistently", then yes, we both know the answer. Rebounds, hits free throws, blocks shots. These are statistical facts. I'm not saying, "I've seen hit a couple of free throws".
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject:

MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:
MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:

Zubac, despite a solid rookie year, bombed it in SL and mostly stunk it up in every area this year whenever he did get minutes.


Among the best per-minute rebounders in the league. Still blocks a lot of shots, even if that has dipped from last season. Runs the floor hard. Draws fouls, knocks down the free throws. Catches, finishes strong. Is only 20. Damn.


Is any of this intended to describe things he does well on a consistent basis or merely things you’ve seen him him do before? I think we both know the answer to that.


If you're thinking "consistently", then yes, we both know the answer. Rebounds, hits free throws, blocks shots. These are statistical facts. I'm not saying, "I've seen hit a couple of free throws".


So why do you think zu didn’t play until the last six weeks of the season?
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

100% Keeping
N/A

Most Likely Keeping
Lonzo Ball
Josh Hart
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma
Julius Randle
Loul Deng (because no one else will take him)
Thomas Bryant
25th Pick
47th Pick

Maybe
Brook Lopez
KCP
Caruso (Has 2 Year 2 Way Contract?)

Likely Gone
Ivica Zubac
Travis Wear
Channing Frye
Thomas

100% Gone
Tyler Ennis
Gary Payton II
Andre Ingram
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kwase
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
As long as Lebron never wears a Laker jersey I dont really care.


concur --- Anthony Davis (down the road) or Kawhi/PG



I concur as well. The 2019 FA class is much better IMO. See if you can get IT on a 1 year deal and let the young fellas continue to grow. We're finally headed in the right direction.
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ToastedMuffins
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

lakerfanaticPT wrote:
ToastedMuffins wrote:
100% Keeping
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma
Josh Hart

Most Likely Keeping
Julius Randle
Thomas Bryant
47th Pick

Maybe
Brook Lopez
Ivica Zubac
Luol Deng
25th Pick

Likely Gone
Isaiah Thomas
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Channing Frye
Tyler Ennis
Travis Wear
Gary Payton II
Alex Caruso
Andre Ingram

100% Gone
N/A


The keeping column is pretty self-explanatory. All 4 guys are young, extremely productive and on cost-controlled contracts. No reason to trade them away when we have more than enough cap space to attract any pending free agent going forward.

Randle will be target #1 in free agency for the Lakers. Hopefully they come with a competitive enough offer and lock him up early because the only chance the Lakers don't retain Randle is if the Mavericks (or another team) tender him an offer sheet starting at $18 million a year or more. Lakers would have to think hard about matching that. Thomas Bryant's team option is cheap enough that it won't effect free agency. He's still young enough that it would be difficult to justify not retaining him and continue his development. The Lakers scouting department is so great that our chances of finding a player that can contribute at the 47th pick is far more valuable than what we would likely get in return trading it away.

Assuming LeBron James and Paul George don't both come in free agency then I think Lopez is the most likely of our veterans to be sought to return. His ability to space the floor and box out are what played a huge part in allowing Randle to have the breakthrough season that he did. His return would be likely but it will depend on his offers around the league but with both cap space and a starting position available the Lakers should be able to trump pretty much any opposing offer. Zubac is in a similar position to Bryant but is older and less versatile. If the Lakers are put in a position where they need to decide between the two, I would predict they cut Zubac. I strongly feel that Deng and the 25th pick's fates are linked. If we find a trade partner for Deng, I expect that the 25th pick will be shipped out with him along with other assets. 50/50 chance this partner exists though.

Thomas and Caldwell-Pope are both going to be looking to start and I believe they'll find those roles with teams offering longer term contracts than we'll be willing to extend to them. Frye is at the point in his career that he'll be looking to ring-chase. He'll sign with a more competitive team for the minimum. Ennis, Ware, Payton, Caruso, and Ingram will all likely be renounced as I don't feel any of them performed to a point that they warrant holding onto our cap space. However, I don't feel that any of them were so disappointing that I wouldn't look into bringing them back on minimum salaries or two-way contracts should we need to fill out the roster.


This sounds like the most logical of the answers I read. I hope the Lakers have a real good idea what Lebron and PG are going to do and not let Randle walk for nothing. I think this is the biggest question mark and most important result of the off season.


Well there's a few things going in the Lakers' favor regarding Randle.

1. Magic and Rob don't appear to be bound to the same self-defeating values that Jim and Mitch held in regards to "tampering" during the moratorium. They'll likely probe enough to have a good idea on whether they'll have a good chance to sign both James and George by the time the moratorium is up and teams are allowed to tender Randle offer sheets.

2. Even of the Lakers are wrong and it turns out that both James and George want to come after they've already re-signed Randle, all it takes is to move Deng for cap space to give the Lakers enough room again. Doing so would likely cost a ransom such as the player drafted with Cleveland's pick, our 2019 1st unprotected and Chicago's 2019 2nd, but I'd be surprised if teams such as the Kings, Hawks, or Bulls didn't show interest in that package.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:26 pm    Post subject:

Trying to keep my bias out of this, here's what I think (pretty much falling in line with the majority):

Keepers 100%: Zo, Kuz, Hart, Ingram,
Most likely: Randle, Bryant, Zubac
Maybe (here's where I diverge): IT, Lopez, Wear, Frye
Likely gone: KCP, Ennis, GPII,
100%: Not going to speculate, but I think they might keep Caruso on a 2 way
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av3773
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject:

If it's about keeping the young core in tact then yeah it's probably zo, ingram, hart and kuzma

But if there are trades to be made to bring in top shelf talent I think all would be available excluding zo...who I see as a multiplier player...I think BI is a bit like that as well....if we could keep those two I'd be fine with moving everyone else if it brought in the talent to justify the move
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oldlakerfan
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:

LaxT wrote:
100% Keeping
Lonzo Ball
Brandon Ingram
Kyle Kuzma
Josh Hart

Most Likely Keeping
Luol Deng
Julius Randle
Ivica Zubac
Thomas Bryant
25th Pick
47th Pick
Alex Caruso

Maybe
Brook Lopez
Isaiah Thomas

Likely Gone
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Channing Frye
Tyler Ennis
Travis Wear
Gary Payton II
Andre Ingram


I think this is the best list I have seen though Wear, Payton and Ingram may be camp invites.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject:

Staying 100%

Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, BI

Staying 75%

Randle -We probably match a 14 or even a 16m offer, more than that I think we let him walk

Bryant - still young and has a good attitude and physical profile. Needs a ton of work.

Could go either way

KCP - Still young, shot well in the 2nd half of the season and played OK defense, not the sharpest player though. If we fail to land 2 big time FA’s there is a chance we stretch Deng and see if KCP would take a long term low $ contract. 4 for 40 with a P.O. after 2? He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who wants to go on FA meetings and he’s an above average NBA player...wouldn’t mind keeping him for the right price.

Zubac - I’m ready to cut bait on him, don’t know about the FO.

Lopez - Still a decent player and seems to enjoy being here. The days of him being a top tier center are gone though. I could see a big one year deal for him if we don’t land 2 big time FA’s.

Probably gone

Thomas - we have gone out of our way since Maglinka took over to get rid of low efficiency no defense chuckers (Swaggy, JC, DLO, Lou). I don’t see why would be that interested in Thomas. That being said, I did like his intensity and his leadership....didn’t like much else. Another candidate for a big one year contract as a salary punt if we don’t land the FA’s we want.

Frye - I’ve always liked him, he’s buddies with Luke and we need a vet presence in the front court. Won’t want a lot of money, wouldn’t mind seeing him back.

Caruso - He’s not total garbage and we seem to always be short on PG’s. Wouldn’t mind him as the 3rd PG on a minimum deal for a year or two.

Almost Definately gone

Deng - Seems like a nice dude, took an inflated contract that he should have known would hamstring the franchise. Came into his first camp out of shape and never really got his playing form back. He did this to himself, but I can’t imagine us holding him hostage another season. Hopefully he will either be stretched or traded along with some picks.


Gone
Everybody Else - Wear, GPII, Ennis...ect. None of them showed that they were NBA players, Some players were especially hard to watch, Ennis is BAAAD.
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dubaholic1
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
JerryWest_44 wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
As long as Lebron never wears a Laker jersey I dont really care.


concur --- Anthony Davis (down the road) or Kawhi/PG



I concur as well. The 2019 FA class is much better IMO. See if you can get IT on a 1 year deal and let the young fellas continue to grow. We're finally headed in the right direction.


Agreed the young guns need to stay together and grow. I'd rather have IT on a one year deal than KCP, thats for sure. I would also rather pay Kawhi than Julius Randle, too. Other than that let the chips fall where they may ( just no Lebron, hopefully)
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MickMgl
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:09 am    Post subject:

HOF Rookie wrote:
MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:
MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:

Zubac, despite a solid rookie year, bombed it in SL and mostly stunk it up in every area this year whenever he did get minutes.


Among the best per-minute rebounders in the league. Still blocks a lot of shots, even if that has dipped from last season. Runs the floor hard. Draws fouls, knocks down the free throws. Catches, finishes strong. Is only 20. Damn.


Is any of this intended to describe things he does well on a consistent basis or merely things you’ve seen him him do before? I think we both know the answer to that.


If you're thinking "consistently", then yes, we both know the answer. Rebounds, hits free throws, blocks shots. These are statistical facts. I'm not saying, "I've seen hit a couple of free throws".


So why do you think zu didn’t play until the last six weeks of the season?


Brook Lopez?
Andrew Bogut?
Larry Nance?

Roster flexibility, as a 2nd-round pick in only his second season, they have the freedom to get him valuable minutes developing in the G-League. So why wouldn't they do that?

Do you think it's some major indictment of him that he wasn't one of their top rotational players throughout the season? They had more polished and matured big men ahead of him.
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