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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | You'd have a 2 year window, in which time our youngsters would be just start coming into their own as a whole.
But by that time LeBron is 35, and father time is undefeated.
So it would essentially lead to nothing for us. |
We could win a ring or 2 in that time frame. I think it's more like 3, then dependent on whatever Lonzo/BI/Jules/Kuz/Hart become. |
Precisely, and Lonzo and Ingram are about 2 seasons away from becoming those kind of 'impact' players consistently at a Championship potential level in my opinion.
And 37 year old LeBron isn't carrying this team to the Finals in the West. |
First 2 years they would be the #3-7 men on a possible championship rotation. They're ready for that. |
If LeBron and George are your 1st and 2nd options surrounded by kids whom are 2 seasons away, are you winning a Championship? |
Yes. Why not?
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | You'd have a 2 year window, in which time our youngsters would be just start coming into their own as a whole.
But by that time LeBron is 35, and father time is undefeated.
So it would essentially lead to nothing for us. |
We could win a ring or 2 in that time frame. I think it's more like 3, then dependent on whatever Lonzo/BI/Jules/Kuz/Hart become. |
Precisely, and Lonzo and Ingram are about 2 seasons away from becoming those kind of 'impact' players consistently at a Championship potential level in my opinion.
And 37 year old LeBron isn't carrying this team to the Finals in the West. |
First 2 years they would be the #3-7 men on a possible championship rotation. They're ready for that. |
If LeBron and George are your 1st and 2nd options surrounded by kids whom are 2 seasons away, are you winning a Championship? |
Yes. Why not? |
I guess the better question would be.
If you took OKC right now, and replaced Carmelo with Brandon Ingram, and Andre Roberson with Lonzo Ball. Are they the favorites?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | You'd have a 2 year window, in which time our youngsters would be just start coming into their own as a whole.
But by that time LeBron is 35, and father time is undefeated.
So it would essentially lead to nothing for us. |
We could win a ring or 2 in that time frame. I think it's more like 3, then dependent on whatever Lonzo/BI/Jules/Kuz/Hart become. |
Precisely, and Lonzo and Ingram are about 2 seasons away from becoming those kind of 'impact' players consistently at a Championship potential level in my opinion.
And 37 year old LeBron isn't carrying this team to the Finals in the West. |
First 2 years they would be the #3-7 men on a possible championship rotation. They're ready for that. |
If LeBron and George are your 1st and 2nd options surrounded by kids whom are 2 seasons away, are you winning a Championship? |
Yes. Why not? |
I guess the better question would be.
If you took OKC right now, and replaced Carmelo with Brandon Ingram, and Andre Roberson with Lonzo Ball. Are they the favorites? |
Huh? That's just a terrible comparison b/c OKC has no tools to improve its roster.
I think LBJ > WB so that's a different point of comparison for me. I think LBJ plays more impactful playoff winning basketball than WB.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | You'd have a 2 year window, in which time our youngsters would be just start coming into their own as a whole.
But by that time LeBron is 35, and father time is undefeated.
So it would essentially lead to nothing for us. |
We could win a ring or 2 in that time frame. I think it's more like 3, then dependent on whatever Lonzo/BI/Jules/Kuz/Hart become. |
Precisely, and Lonzo and Ingram are about 2 seasons away from becoming those kind of 'impact' players consistently at a Championship potential level in my opinion.
And 37 year old LeBron isn't carrying this team to the Finals in the West. |
First 2 years they would be the #3-7 men on a possible championship rotation. They're ready for that. |
Having a good month or two out of the season is far from being a consistent contributor on a contending team. Our only young player who has shown that consistency is Randle. That is why we would need solid vets added with George and Lebron.
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BynumForThree
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | You'd have a 2 year window, in which time our youngsters would be just start coming into their own as a whole.
But by that time LeBron is 35, and father time is undefeated.
So it would essentially lead to nothing for us. |
We could win a ring or 2 in that time frame. I think it's more like 3, then dependent on whatever Lonzo/BI/Jules/Kuz/Hart become. |
Precisely, and Lonzo and Ingram are about 2 seasons away from becoming those kind of 'impact' players consistently at a Championship potential level in my opinion.
And 37 year old LeBron isn't carrying this team to the Finals in the West. |
First 2 years they would be the #3-7 men on a possible championship rotation. They're ready for that. |
If LeBron and George are your 1st and 2nd options surrounded by kids whom are 2 seasons away, are you winning a Championship? |
Yes. Why not? |
Because the Warriors and Rockets exist.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BynumForThree wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | You'd have a 2 year window, in which time our youngsters would be just start coming into their own as a whole.
But by that time LeBron is 35, and father time is undefeated.
So it would essentially lead to nothing for us. |
We could win a ring or 2 in that time frame. I think it's more like 3, then dependent on whatever Lonzo/BI/Jules/Kuz/Hart become. |
Precisely, and Lonzo and Ingram are about 2 seasons away from becoming those kind of 'impact' players consistently at a Championship potential level in my opinion.
And 37 year old LeBron isn't carrying this team to the Finals in the West. |
First 2 years they would be the #3-7 men on a possible championship rotation. They're ready for that. |
If LeBron and George are your 1st and 2nd options surrounded by kids whom are 2 seasons away, are you winning a Championship? |
Yes. Why not? |
Because the Warriors and Rockets exist. |
Eh. It would be a 3 team race for the championship (yes including East teams) b/w Warriors/Rox/Lakers.
Problem for Rox is they would have no answer to defending LBJ/PG13.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| 2-3 years |
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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We wouldn’t have a championship window because our guys are still too young to contend and by the time they’re ready in 2-3 years lebron will be a shell of himself.
Then if lebron leaves after our young guys need extensions then there will be no money afterward to anyone good. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DangeRuss wrote: | We wouldn’t have a championship window because our guys are still too young to contend and by the time they’re ready in 2-3 years lebron will be a shell of himself.
Then if lebron leaves after our young guys need extensions then there will be no money afterward to anyone good. |
what young guys? Lebron will move them. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| DangeRuss wrote: | We wouldn’t have a championship window because our guys are still too young to contend and by the time they’re ready in 2-3 years lebron will be a shell of himself.
Then if lebron leaves after our young guys need extensions then there will be no money afterward to anyone good. |
My preferred pipe dream is PG13 in 2018; healthy KL in 2019; keep the young guys (Lonzo/BI/Kuz/Jules/Hart).
But LBJ/PG13 + young core would be a tough out for any of the contenders.
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | DangeRuss wrote: | We wouldn’t have a championship window because our guys are still too young to contend and by the time they’re ready in 2-3 years lebron will be a shell of himself.
Then if lebron leaves after our young guys need extensions then there will be no money afterward to anyone good. |
My preferred pipe dream is PG13 in 2018; healthy KL in 2019; keep the young guys (Lonzo/BI/Kuz/Jules/Hart).
But LBJ/PG13 + young core would be a tough out for any of the contenders. |
That’s my pipe dream as well. |
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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This too young stuff is silly. Rondo was in year 2, Perkins was in year 3, when the Celtics won. Harden was six man of the year, in year 3, when OKC made the finals. Paul George was most improve player in year 3 for the Pacers. Leonard was finals MVP at 21. Capela is a key player for the Rockets in year 4.
Randle, Ingram, and Ball are high lottery picks. Going into their 5th, 3rd, and 2nd season respectfully. If they need another 2-3 years to contribute to a championship team, we drafted the wrong guys. |
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | This too young stuff is silly. Rondo was in year 2, Perkins was in year 3, when the Celtics won. Harden was six man of the year, in year 3, when OKC made the finals. Paul George was most improve player in year 3 for the Pacers. Leonard was finals MVP at 21. Capela is a key player for the Rockets in year 4.
Randle, Ingram, and Ball are high lottery picks. Going into their 5th, 3rd, and 2nd season respectfully. If they need another 2-3 years to contribute to a championship team, we drafted the wrong guys. |
I don’t think you quite understand. Rondo was surrounded by vets including pierce, KG, Ray Allen. Harden was young as was okc but that team had 3 future MVPs and they still lost. Paul George had a veteran team around him and they didn’t get very far in a weak east, Leonard was a special talent but still on a pop coached team while being on one of the oldest rosters in the nba, capela is a decent young player again on a team full of contributing vets plus an mvp and one of the best PGs of all time.
Our entire team is young guys, we’d have 2 big time vets leading sopmores. It’s not like it’s one or two young guys surrounded by vets, it’d be 1 or 2 vets surrounded by an inexperienced team thats used to losing and hasn’t even tasted the playoffs once. They need seasoning before they can contend. Not to mention I feel like it’s much more difficult to contend these days, the contenders now have multiple all stars on one team plus a cast full of contributing vets..
Even Channing fry has said he’s tried to talk to the guys about some more advanced defensive concepts and the coaching had to pull him back like hey man, they don’t know this stuff yet, stick to the basics |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: What is actually our title window if we land PG + LeBron? |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I’m assuming it’s 5-6 years then the young core takes over after that, depending on how long LeBron is affective we could be looking at a nice run. |
3 years max, totally dependent on LeBron's remaining prime and improvement of youth core.
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JPaulK0n
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| LeBron will be 34 & Paul George will be 28 next season, and assuming that the young players don't get traded to help Bron win more, how ever long LeBron plays, the team would stay as contenders. The team would be Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, and Hart (Randle is out of the core at the moment) getting progressively better each season, Paul George heading into the prime of his career, along with ring chasers off the bench. Best case scenario, Lakers get LeBron for 4-5 years and win titles, and once LeBron decides to retire, Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, & Hart are ready to take the mantle with rings to their resumes, while playing in a lot of big games already, allowing the Lakers to be contenders for practically a decade with LeBron and post-LeBron is the best case scenario. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the thing "ring chasers off the bench" are usually old players past their prime looking for one last go.
Is that really a unit you could see running our pace and offense?
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| JPaulK0n wrote: | | Paul George heading into the prime of his career, along with ring chasers off the bench. |
Paul George is and has been in his prime.....there are signs that his peak has happened, and he is already on the other side of his prime years. |
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JPaulK0n
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Here's the thing "ring chasers off the bench" are usually old players past their prime looking for one last go.
Is that really a unit you could see running our pace and offense? |
It depends on the type of older ring chasing vets they go after. The Warriors have an older bench with Iggy, Livingston, & D. West as their main bench players, and are still 5th in pace. Going to need vet's that have playoff experience and have gone through the battles.
| adkindo wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Paul George heading into the prime of his career, along with ring chasers off the bench. |
Paul George is and has been in his prime.....there are signs that his peak has happened, and he is already on the other side of his prime years. |
Usually the early 30s were the peak and best years for elite players physically and mentally. Just in the last 2 years in the playoffs with limited talent around him against better teams, he averaged 27, 7, & 4 in 2016 against the Raptors and 28, 8, & 7 against LeBron, he is still in his prime and can get even better imo. He has never played anywhere close to a space & pace offensive system the Lakers currently run which could take him to another level. In Indy he played in an offense that was a slow and plodding old school offensive system and in OKC he plays in the Westbrook system. Just imagine how much better he would be in the Lakers system he can play off the ball, play with shooters and spacing around him, can play as the ball handler in the pick n roll, drive, spot up, etc. His best basketball can still be ahead of him. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JPaulK0n wrote: | | Usually the early 30s were the peak and best years for elite players physically and mentally. |
I disagree with that statement....early 30's are not the best physical years for players or males in general....and most advanced metrics illustrate PG has been on a decline the last 2 seasons. |
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Sentient Meat
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Kareem won 5 championships between the ages of 32 and 40.
If used as a primary option and slowly transitioned to role player... James can work equally well. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Usually the early 30s were the peak and best years for elite players physically and mentally. |
I disagree with that statement....early 30's are not the best physical years for players or males in general....and most advanced metrics illustrate PG has been on a decline the last 2 seasons. |
Yep. There are too many other factors (injuries, teammates, personal life, and the like) to generalize about this. The metrics guys say that players peak at 25 or 26 on average.
http://wagesofwins.com/nba-players-age-like-milk/
That seems a little young to me, but on the other hand, Kobe's peak season was '06, when he turned 27. Durant's peak season was at 25. Shaq's peak season was at 27. Wade's peak season was at 27. There are exceptions to anything like this, I'm sure, but on the other hand it does appear that Paul George's peak season may have been at 25. |
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JPaulK0n
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Usually the early 30s were the peak and best years for elite players physically and mentally. |
I disagree with that statement....early 30's are not the best physical years for players or males in general....and most advanced metrics illustrate PG has been on a decline the last 2 seasons. |
Was speaking about in the NBA, as the most success the best players in the league tends to happen in their early 30's, while at their most complete and they then begin the decline heading into their mid 30s for the elite players. Kobe won back to back titles as "the guy" in his 30's, Magic won back to back MVP's in his 30's, LeBron beat the 73 win Warriors at age 31, Wilt won his first championship at age 30, etc. Paul George isn't even close to that caliber of player, but his peak and best years for him are still to come, as the best years for elite years are in their late 20s and early 30s. George's best year so far was just last year and was one a candidate for DPOTY this year, his best basketball is still on the way.
Last edited by JPaulK0n on Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Judah
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | Here's the thing "ring chasers off the bench" are usually old players past their prime looking for one last go.
Is that really a unit you could see running our pace and offense? |
And yet, ironically, you think one-legged Boogie on a max contract is a perfect fit 
It’s not as if all of the role players on a championship team have to be geezers. I know you’d like to imply that in order to make your argument work, but the coherency of it is a failure.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| JPaulK0n wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Usually the early 30s were the peak and best years for elite players physically and mentally. |
I disagree with that statement....early 30's are not the best physical years for players or males in general....and most advanced metrics illustrate PG has been on a decline the last 2 seasons. |
Was speaking about in the NBA, as the most success the best players in the league tends to happen in their early 30's, while at their most complete and they then begin the decline heading into their mid 30s for the elite players. Kobe won back to back titles as "the guy" in his 30's, Magic won back to back MVP's in his 30's, LeBron beat the 73 win Warriors at age 31, Wilt won his first championship at age 30, etc. Paul George isn't even close to that caliber of player, but his peak and best years for him are still to come, as the best years for elite years are in their late 20s and early 30s. George's best year so far was just last year and was one a candidate for DPOTY this year, his best basketball is still on the way. |
the items you listed are simply anecdotal....it's like listing a bunch of females that you know that had healthy children in their early 40's, and concluding that post 40 is the idea time for a female to have children. In regards to PG-13....take a look at his overall advanced metrics, and then let me know if you believe last year was his best year.
PG-13 Advanced Metrics
Athletes have gifted bodies....but their timeline does not really differ from the average male in regards to peak athleticism. Almost everything I have read in regards to human anatomy suggests that natural males peak near that age 27.....so sure some could be 26 or 28....but 30 would be a significant outlier. |
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JPaulK0n
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | Usually the early 30s were the peak and best years for elite players physically and mentally. |
I disagree with that statement....early 30's are not the best physical years for players or males in general....and most advanced metrics illustrate PG has been on a decline the last 2 seasons. |
Was speaking about in the NBA, as the most success the best players in the league tends to happen in their early 30's, while at their most complete and they then begin the decline heading into their mid 30s for the elite players. Kobe won back to back titles as "the guy" in his 30's, Magic won back to back MVP's in his 30's, LeBron beat the 73 win Warriors at age 31, Wilt won his first championship at age 30, etc. Paul George isn't even close to that caliber of player, but his peak and best years for him are still to come, as the best years for elite years are in their late 20s and early 30s. George's best year so far was just last year and was one a candidate for DPOTY this year, his best basketball is still on the way. |
the items you listed are simply anecdotal....it's like listing a bunch of females that you know that had healthy children in their early 40's, and concluding that post 40 is the idea time for a female to have children. In regards to PG-13....take a look at his overall advanced metrics, and then let me know if you believe last year was his best year.
PG-13 Advanced Metrics |
His best offensive season was last year and he was a much more complete player than the player he was during those contending Pacers years. He is far more skilled as a playmaker and shooter last season and now than during those Pacers teams that went up against LeBron & the Heat. He also played with very good defensive players in the starting 5 during that time period with Hibbert, George Hill, Stephenson, & West compared to playing with Monta Ellis & Jeff Teague on the wings and a 2nd year Myles Turner & Thad Young. So, the metrics do show flaws, just like in one of Kawhi's DPOTY seasons showed that the team was better on defense with him off the floor, yet the reason for that was due to him playing a lot of his minutes with minus defenders in Tony Parker & Pau Gasol. Paul George is much more skilled and refined now than before, not sure how you can't say he isn't. He is a much, much better shooter now, better as a pick n roll ball handler, better handles with the ball in his hands, better passer, etc. Not sure how you can't see that Paul George is a better player now than before. |
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