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pio2u
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject:

Magic and Rob are serious and consistent.

The message is the same as last year: ....... Shape up or ship out!!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:54 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.

And yet, vlf didnít actually say that. It was just a strange comment that needed some clarification. Not the biggest deal in the world.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:21 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Magic: "Weíre not going to give money away just to say we signed somebody."


Agreed, but no one is looking for them to do that. They do, however, need to produce results. This summer.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.

And yet, vlf didnít actually say that. It was just a strange comment that needed some clarification. Not the biggest deal in the world.


Exactly. Mitch and jim had given themselves one max slot flexibility, Magic and rob have thus far stretched that to two. And they added the two first rounders last year, one on a deal Mitch had set up and one on their own deal. So they got more first rounders. Canít really speak the Cleveland pick they got at the deadline this year because Mitch is fired, so of course he couldnít make deals this year (that also technically applies to the other deal last year too, but I donít assume Mitch does that deal so it reasonably applies)

I think that was vlfís point. There are large, concrete accomplishments that donít need to be spun with dishonesty. They can stand on their own.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.

And yet, vlf didnít actually say that. It was just a strange comment that needed some clarification. Not the biggest deal in the world.


Exactly. Mitch and jim had given themselves one max slot flexibility, Magic and rob have thus far stretched that to two. And they added the two first rounders last year, one on a deal Mitch had set up and one on their own deal. So they got more first rounders. Canít really speak the Cleveland pick they got at the deadline this year because Mitch is fired, so of course he couldnít make deals this year (that also technically applies to the other deal last year too, but I donít assume Mitch does that deal so it reasonably applies)

I think that was vlfís point. There are large, concrete accomplishments that donít need to be spun with dishonesty. They can stand on their own.


Respectfully disagree.

Jim and Mitch didn't have 1 Max slot flexibility after they wasted their cap room on MozDeng. We waited for years to get Kobe's excessive golden parachute off the books and then literally 1 minutes into having significant cap space they passed it away inexplicably.

And not just for 1 or 2 seasons but for 4 freaking years.

And when Magic and Rob took over they had zero picks but the possibility of retaining a top 3 pick. That was it...2 albatross contracts...no cap flexibility...no guaranteed draft picks.

Lou trade got us a first that became Hart and T Mamba
DLO Moz got us an expiring and a first that became Kuz

Getting younger immediately and jettisoning 3 contracts for an expiring is what got us cap flexibility. Jim and Mitch deserved getting the heave ho. Let's not paint revisionist history and slander Rob in the process.

This FO has us winning and they're doing it the right way with draft picks and class ie Brewer and A Ingram and giving our G leaguers a real shot while maintaining cap availability for the right players. Magic and Rob have cleaned up a huge mess in a little over a year AND the team is playing better on top of it.

So I have to disagree with any attempt to take away credit from this FO fo give it to the previous CF that some people still have a fondness for for inexplicable reasons as well imo.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.

And yet, vlf didnít actually say that. It was just a strange comment that needed some clarification. Not the biggest deal in the world.


Exactly. Mitch and jim had given themselves one max slot flexibility, Magic and rob have thus far stretched that to two. And they added the two first rounders last year, one on a deal Mitch had set up and one on their own deal. So they got more first rounders. Canít really speak the Cleveland pick they got at the deadline this year because Mitch is fired, so of course he couldnít make deals this year (that also technically applies to the other deal last year too, but I donít assume Mitch does that deal so it reasonably applies)

I think that was vlfís point. There are large, concrete accomplishments that donít need to be spun with dishonesty. They can stand on their own.


Respectfully disagree.

Jim and Mitch didn't have 1 Max slot flexibility after they wasted their cap room on MozDeng. We waited for years to get Kobe's excessive golden parachute off the books and then literally 1 minutes into having significant cap space they passed it away inexplicably.

And not just for 1 or 2 seasons but for 4 freaking years.

And when Magic and Rob took over they had zero picks but the possibility of retaining a top 3 pick. That was it...2 albatross contracts...no cap flexibility...no guaranteed draft picks.

Lou trade got us a first that became Hart and T Mamba
DLO Moz got us an expiring and a first that became Kuz

Getting younger immediately and jettisoning 3 contracts for an expiring is what got us cap flexibility. Jim and Mitch deserved getting the heave ho. Let's not paint revisionist history and slander Rob in the process.

This FO has us winning and they're doing it the right way with draft picks and class ie Brewer and A Ingram and giving our G leaguers a real shot while maintaining cap availability for the right players. Magic and Rob have cleaned up a huge mess in a little over a year AND the team is playing better on top of it.

So I have to disagree with any attempt to take away credit from this FO fo give it to the previous CF that some people still have a fondness for for inexplicable reasons as well imo.


You're both misinterpreting my point and being factually incorrect.

First, I'm not detracting from them at all. Everyone knows I'm not a big fan of them, but I have been pimping their season, so you know it's pretty good when that happens. I have even said I think they ended up very well out of the DLo trade, so, respectfully, twisting what i said to imply that i'm bashing their year isn't anywhere near what my post was about.

My post was about vlf taking issue with what Pelinka said, and someone taking him (incorrectly) to task and like yourself, making it ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. The fact is that Rob was not being truthful when he said the team was capped out when they took over, unless you want to parse it in the narrowest sense that because it was in season, the Lakers were above the cap at that moment, but we all know that's not what he meant. And the fact is that the Lakers were under the cap by over 20 million before the new front office did anything to the cap space. And there were several simple ways to get to a max slot. So factually, the team was not capped out, and factually, it had one max flexibility (just as the current team has two max flexibility).

He also said they had no picks. That part is again narrowly true to some degree because the lottery hadn't happened yet, and while the previous front office had beggun tanking, we don't know exactly what the outcome would be, although if they had lost that pick they would have their own pick this year. It is also narrowly true because the Lou Williams trade hadn't happened yet, and they fired Mitch while he was negotiating it, and took a slightly worse deal than than one of his options (his HOU deal vs the Utah deal), resulting in having an additional seven million on the cap because they took back a player with an additional year on his deal. We can't know what M<itch would have done for sure, but it's a bit disingenuous to take one of the deals he had set up and then claim that as your pick and that he left none.

The pick from the DLO trade is entirely theirs, as is the pick from the Clarkson trade, but again, since they fired Mitch, you can't just assume he makes zero moves going forward if they hadn't.


The upshot is that they did very well. They added picks, opened more cap space, drafted as well as you can, and their team is coming together well. They can stand on what they did with a ot of pride, and should. No need to exaggerate and prevaricate to do it.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

anything that Rob or Magic say, at this point, should be taken
with a grain of salt. whatever they actually do will be contingent
on who they can get as a FA...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject:

I liked Magic and Rob's interview, as well as Luke's.

They made it very clear they expect Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram to dedicate themselves to strength conditioning in the same manner Julius Randle did last summer. That's exactly what I wanted to hear from them.

LaVar and BBB had all these plans for Lonzo as soon as summer hits. Rap. Lithuania. High priced autographs. BBB branded shoes. Lobby for little brother. Play exhibition games promoted by Lavar. One comment slid out from Lonzo that I found very telling; to paraphrase - he's free to choose between his future as a superstar and all the goodies that come from his fame, but if he doesn't choose the former, the latter goes away.

I do think Magic and Rob dropped the hammer. On Lonzo and Brandon in particular. Also to a much lesser extent on Kyle Kuzma. Hart, on the other hand, IS playing in summer league. He's proven he's NBA ready physically. Coming back from the hand injury the first day he could and KILLING it in the NBA games to close the season was great for Josh Hart.

Randle - everyone there including Magic and Rob held out Julius Randle as the gold standard for other players to follow when it comes to dedication to basketball and how to become a championship caliber player this coming summer. That speaks extremely well for JR. Not saying he stays, but I'm certain they're more motivated to keep him now than they were a year ago. I think that's big reason why Magic and Rob are both emphasizing that the Max FA's might or might not come this summer. Randle's not a headache anymore. He's a valuable asset and a part of the core.

Zubac looked downright depressed. Didn't get strong enough. Didn't get quick enough. Best I could decipher is the message was "try again and you're running out of runway." He did not look like a happy camper in front of the press minutes after talking to Luke/Rob/Magic.

I loved Channing Frye's interview. Very real. Channing has no idea if he's going to be here or not, it depends on factors beyond his control. But he's still willing to say this team has a great future and who wouldn't want to be a Laker if they had the chance instead of playing on some other team?

PG13 would clearly be a win at the 2 next season. Not sure I'd take any other Max FA's if it means saying bye bye to Randle. And I really liked hearing from Magic that they're not going to spend money just to spend money this summer.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject:

Lukeís was most likely
Magic: next year you will be judged on wins and losses for the first time.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:24 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.



Great back to back posts. Magic and Rob have pushed many buttons, and they have yet to miss since taking over. GREAT things are right around the corner for us, and I am sure that everyone who has been talking shiittzz about them will GLADLY eat crow.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:13 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

You're both misinterpreting my point and being factually incorrect.

First, I'm not detracting from them at all. Everyone knows I'm not a big fan of them, but I have been pimping their season, so you know it's pretty good when that happens. I have even said I think they ended up very well out of the DLo trade, so, respectfully, twisting what i said to imply that i'm bashing their year isn't anywhere near what my post was about.

My post was about vlf taking issue with what Pelinka said, and someone taking him (incorrectly) to task and like yourself, making it ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. The fact is that Rob was not being truthful when he said the team was capped out when they took over, unless you want to parse it in the narrowest sense that because it was in season, the Lakers were above the cap at that moment, but we all know that's not what he meant. And the fact is that the Lakers were under the cap by over 20 million before the new front office did anything to the cap space. And there were several simple ways to get to a max slot. So factually, the team was not capped out, and factually, it had one max flexibility (just as the current team has two max flexibility).

He also said they had no picks. That part is again narrowly true to some degree because the lottery hadn't happened yet, and while the previous front office had beggun tanking, we don't know exactly what the outcome would be, although if they had lost that pick they would have their own pick this year. It is also narrowly true because the Lou Williams trade hadn't happened yet, and they fired Mitch while he was negotiating it, and took a slightly worse deal than than one of his options (his HOU deal vs the Utah deal), resulting in having an additional seven million on the cap because they took back a player with an additional year on his deal. We can't know what M<itch would have done for sure, but it's a bit disingenuous to take one of the deals he had set up and then claim that as your pick and that he left none.

The pick from the DLO trade is entirely theirs, as is the pick from the Clarkson trade, but again, since they fired Mitch, you can't just assume he makes zero moves going forward if they hadn't.


The upshot is that they did very well. They added picks, opened more cap space, drafted as well as you can, and their team is coming together well. They can stand on what they did with a ot of pride, and should. No need to exaggerate and prevaricate to do it.


Warmer....
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Omar Little wrote:

You're both misinterpreting my point and being factually incorrect.

First, I'm not detracting from them at all. Everyone knows I'm not a big fan of them, but I have been pimping their season, so you know it's pretty good when that happens. I have even said I think they ended up very well out of the DLo trade, so, respectfully, twisting what i said to imply that i'm bashing their year isn't anywhere near what my post was about.

My post was about vlf taking issue with what Pelinka said, and someone taking him (incorrectly) to task and like yourself, making it ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. The fact is that Rob was not being truthful when he said the team was capped out when they took over, unless you want to parse it in the narrowest sense that because it was in season, the Lakers were above the cap at that moment, but we all know that's not what he meant. And the fact is that the Lakers were under the cap by over 20 million before the new front office did anything to the cap space. And there were several simple ways to get to a max slot. So factually, the team was not capped out, and factually, it had one max flexibility (just as the current team has two max flexibility).

He also said they had no picks. That part is again narrowly true to some degree because the lottery hadn't happened yet, and while the previous front office had beggun tanking, we don't know exactly what the outcome would be, although if they had lost that pick they would have their own pick this year. It is also narrowly true because the Lou Williams trade hadn't happened yet, and they fired Mitch while he was negotiating it, and took a slightly worse deal than than one of his options (his HOU deal vs the Utah deal), resulting in having an additional seven million on the cap because they took back a player with an additional year on his deal. We can't know what M<itch would have done for sure, but it's a bit disingenuous to take one of the deals he had set up and then claim that as your pick and that he left none.

The pick from the DLO trade is entirely theirs, as is the pick from the Clarkson trade, but again, since they fired Mitch, you can't just assume he makes zero moves going forward if they hadn't.


The upshot is that they did very well. They added picks, opened more cap space, drafted as well as you can, and their team is coming together well. They can stand on what they did with a ot of pride, and should. No need to exaggerate and prevaricate to do it.


Warmer....


But not quite yet Disco.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.

And yet, vlf didnít actually say that. It was just a strange comment that needed some clarification. Not the biggest deal in the world.


Exactly. Mitch and jim had given themselves one max slot flexibility, Magic and rob have thus far stretched that to two. And they added the two first rounders last year, one on a deal Mitch had set up and one on their own deal. So they got more first rounders. Canít really speak the Cleveland pick they got at the deadline this year because Mitch is fired, so of course he couldnít make deals this year (that also technically applies to the other deal last year too, but I donít assume Mitch does that deal so it reasonably applies)

I think that was vlfís point. There are large, concrete accomplishments that donít need to be spun with dishonesty. They can stand on their own.


Respectfully disagree.

Jim and Mitch didn't have 1 Max slot flexibility after they wasted their cap room on MozDeng. We waited for years to get Kobe's excessive golden parachute off the books and then literally 1 minutes into having significant cap space they passed it away inexplicably.

And not just for 1 or 2 seasons but for 4 freaking years.

And when Magic and Rob took over they had zero picks but the possibility of retaining a top 3 pick. That was it...2 albatross contracts...no cap flexibility...no guaranteed draft picks.

Lou trade got us a first that became Hart and T Mamba
DLO Moz got us an expiring and a first that became Kuz

Getting younger immediately and jettisoning 3 contracts for an expiring is what got us cap flexibility. Jim and Mitch deserved getting the heave ho. Let's not paint revisionist history and slander Rob in the process.

This FO has us winning and they're doing it the right way with draft picks and class ie Brewer and A Ingram and giving our G leaguers a real shot while maintaining cap availability for the right players. Magic and Rob have cleaned up a huge mess in a little over a year AND the team is playing better on top of it.

So I have to disagree with any attempt to take away credit from this FO fo give it to the previous CF that some people still have a fondness for for inexplicable reasons as well imo.


You're both misinterpreting my point and being factually incorrect.

First, I'm not detracting from them at all. Everyone knows I'm not a big fan of them, but I have been pimping their season, so you know it's pretty good when that happens. I have even said I think they ended up very well out of the DLo trade, so, respectfully, twisting what i said to imply that i'm bashing their year isn't anywhere near what my post was about.

My post was about vlf taking issue with what Pelinka said, and someone taking him (incorrectly) to task and like yourself, making it ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. The fact is that Rob was not being truthful when he said the team was capped out when they took over, unless you want to parse it in the narrowest sense that because it was in season, the Lakers were above the cap at that moment, but we all know that's not what he meant. And the fact is that the Lakers were under the cap by over 20 million before the new front office did anything to the cap space. And there were several simple ways to get to a max slot. So factually, the team was not capped out, and factually, it had one max flexibility (just as the current team has two max flexibility).

He also said they had no picks. That part is again narrowly true to some degree because the lottery hadn't happened yet, and while the previous front office had beggun tanking, we don't know exactly what the outcome would be, although if they had lost that pick they would have their own pick this year. It is also narrowly true because the Lou Williams trade hadn't happened yet, and they fired Mitch while he was negotiating it, and took a slightly worse deal than than one of his options (his HOU deal vs the Utah deal), resulting in having an additional seven million on the cap because they took back a player with an additional year on his deal. We can't know what M<itch would have done for sure, but it's a bit disingenuous to take one of the deals he had set up and then claim that as your pick and that he left none.

The pick from the DLO trade is entirely theirs, as is the pick from the Clarkson trade, but again, since they fired Mitch, you can't just assume he makes zero moves going forward if they hadn't.


The upshot is that they did very well. They added picks, opened more cap space, drafted as well as you can, and their team is coming together well. They can stand on what they did with a ot of pride, and should. No need to exaggerate and prevaricate to do it.


This says in 2016-2017 when Magic took over the Lakers were committed to 94Million in Salary...so I have no idea where that 20 Magic Million is that you speak of.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/salary-cap-history.html

As to the draft picks we literally had no picks in 2017 or 2018 save for the luck of the lotto bells. That's an indisputable fact. After the Lou Trade we get 1 that we then turned into 2 (Hart and TBryant). After the MozDLo trade we get #27 which becomes Kuz and Brooke which is now cap space. We then trade JC and Nance and get another 1st and another expiring. All while the team continues to improve.

That is a monumental amount of dealing coming from a FO in 1 year to acquire 6 total draft picks for 2 quality players and 1 with potential to be the best of the bunch...and to offload 2 major contracts in the process rather than having to give up picks to clear cap space is something most of us thought impossible.

We are literally a stretch provision away from clearing the 2 worst contracts in franchise history and acquiring 6 quality picks in the process. The only thing Jim and Mitch had to do with that is creating the CF in the 1st place.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe...but no one has a right to change facts to fit a biased narrative...unless you support the current guy in the WH.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

Under the old regime, whatever the number was that they had with regards to cap space, what was it actually worth? The team was talent poor, after years of shuffling around coaches every 2 years, and they had demonstrated a league wide embarrassing inability to pitch FAs. Quibble about the numbers if you must, but at the end of the day the biggest loser in school may or may not have had a really nice condom in his wallet. I can recognize the past achievements of the old guard and acknowledge they weren't given the proper support from ownership, but it should also be recognized what a terrible position they put us in. They left a giant mess that is somehow being cleaned up while the talent pool has been increased.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

Halflife wrote:
Lukeís was most likely
Magic: next year you will be judged on wins and losses for the first time.


If that was the case then I hope Luke told them to field a real team next year and not one where G leaguers played heavy mins and were normal rotation players, and even started a lot of games.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.


Lou was never going to remain with us, Mitch and Morey had worked on the basics of that trade. Only Mitch was working on expanding it and trying to bring in a solid vet while Magic lacked that foresight and jumped right in.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.


Lou was never going to remain with us, Mitch and Morey had worked on the basics of that trade. Only Mitch was working on expanding it and trying to bring in a solid vet while Magic lacked that foresight and jumped right in.


There's no better trade than the theoretical trades Mitch and Jim surely would have made if given more time.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.


Lou was never going to remain with us, Mitch and Morey had worked on the basics of that trade. Only Mitch was working on expanding it and trying to bring in a solid vet while Magic lacked that foresight and jumped right in.


There's no better trade than the theoretical trades Mitch and Jim surely would have made if given more time.


When you give away that time then you know itís over. Rookie vs veteran.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.


Lou was never going to remain with us, Mitch and Morey had worked on the basics of that trade. Only Mitch was working on expanding it and trying to bring in a solid vet while Magic lacked that foresight and jumped right in.


No disrespect (and I really do apologize if I come across as a douche bag because it is not my intention), but you are the first person I think of when I said some will be eating crow. Your continued bashing of Magic has no merit. Who is the fictitious solid vet are you referring to? Magic had the foresight to realize that it was critical to keep our pick. I guess we would have been better off with this supposed solid vet and winning a few more games than ultimately keeping our pick and getting Zo.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject:

Rumors were that the solid vet was Cousins. I am not a fan so I am glad it didnít work out. And point out anything I have said about Magic that is incorrect. He has his flaws just as he has also made some good moves.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.


Lou was never going to remain with us, Mitch and Morey had worked on the basics of that trade. Only Mitch was working on expanding it and trying to bring in a solid vet while Magic lacked that foresight and jumped right in.


No disrespect (and I really do apologize if I come across as a douche bag because it is not my intention), but you are the first person I think of when I said some will be eating crow. Your continued bashing of Magic has no merit. Who is the fictitious solid vet are you referring to? Magic had the foresight to realize that it was critical to keep our pick. I guess we would have been better off with this supposed solid vet and winning a few more games than ultimately keeping our pick and getting Zo.


It's a tough corner to paint one's self into. Mitch and Jim were tanking to get the pick because that was the prudent thing to do, but they also were going to pick up a solid vet who would...help with the tank? It would have worked out, of course, because we'll never know.

I just wish execs could be judged on their performance and not tribalism.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
CervantesRises,

Lets not forget that the Lou trade also allowed us to keep our pick and get ZO. Lou was actually the MVP of our team that year. I do not believe it is unrealistic to think that if Lou remained with us, we would have gotten a few more wins.


Lou was never going to remain with us, Mitch and Morey had worked on the basics of that trade. Only Mitch was working on expanding it and trying to bring in a solid vet while Magic lacked that foresight and jumped right in.


No disrespect (and I really do apologize if I come across as a douche bag because it is not my intention), but you are the first person I think of when I said some will be eating crow. Your continued bashing of Magic has no merit. Who is the fictitious solid vet are you referring to? Magic had the foresight to realize that it was critical to keep our pick. I guess we would have been better off with this supposed solid vet and winning a few more games than ultimately keeping our pick and getting Zo.


It's a tough corner to paint one's self into. Mitch and Jim were tanking to get the pick because that was the prudent thing to do, but they also were going to pick up a solid vet who would...help with the tank? It would have worked out, of course, because we'll never know.

I just wish execs could be judged on their performance and not tribalism.


I judged Mitch on performance, bringing 4 titles makes him pretty good in my book. There are other GMs with more acclaim who havenít come close to achieving that. And I will value Pelinka just as highly if he does the same. Though I will be surprised if he is here for four years once he sees there isnít a path to ownership.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Judah wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
Endless3D wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Rob: when we took over the team was capped out without a pick. Huh?


When they took over this team had no guaranteed 2017 draft pick and no 2018 draft pick. After they took over: 3 first round picks, 1 pick in 2018.

They had no cap space for a max contract, now they have cap space for 2.

facts


Preach.

The fact that some want to go back to the dark ages is shocking.

And yet, vlf didnít actually say that. It was just a strange comment that needed some clarification. Not the biggest deal in the world.


Exactly. Mitch and jim had given themselves one max slot flexibility, Magic and rob have thus far stretched that to two. And they added the two first rounders last year, one on a deal Mitch had set up and one on their own deal. So they got more first rounders. Canít really speak the Cleveland pick they got at the deadline this year because Mitch is fired, so of course he couldnít make deals this year (that also technically applies to the other deal last year too, but I donít assume Mitch does that deal so it reasonably applies)

I think that was vlfís point. There are large, concrete accomplishments that donít need to be spun with dishonesty. They can stand on their own.


Respectfully disagree.

Jim and Mitch didn't have 1 Max slot flexibility after they wasted their cap room on MozDeng. We waited for years to get Kobe's excessive golden parachute off the books and then literally 1 minutes into having significant cap space they passed it away inexplicably.

And not just for 1 or 2 seasons but for 4 freaking years.

And when Magic and Rob took over they had zero picks but the possibility of retaining a top 3 pick. That was it...2 albatross contracts...no cap flexibility...no guaranteed draft picks.

Lou trade got us a first that became Hart and T Mamba
DLO Moz got us an expiring and a first that became Kuz

Getting younger immediately and jettisoning 3 contracts for an expiring is what got us cap flexibility. Jim and Mitch deserved getting the heave ho. Let's not paint revisionist history and slander Rob in the process.

This FO has us winning and they're doing it the right way with draft picks and class ie Brewer and A Ingram and giving our G leaguers a real shot while maintaining cap availability for the right players. Magic and Rob have cleaned up a huge mess in a little over a year AND the team is playing better on top of it.

So I have to disagree with any attempt to take away credit from this FO fo give it to the previous CF that some people still have a fondness for for inexplicable reasons as well imo.


You're both misinterpreting my point and being factually incorrect.

First, I'm not detracting from them at all. Everyone knows I'm not a big fan of them, but I have been pimping their season, so you know it's pretty good when that happens. I have even said I think they ended up very well out of the DLo trade, so, respectfully, twisting what i said to imply that i'm bashing their year isn't anywhere near what my post was about.

My post was about vlf taking issue with what Pelinka said, and someone taking him (incorrectly) to task and like yourself, making it ad hominem instead of dealing with the facts. The fact is that Rob was not being truthful when he said the team was capped out when they took over, unless you want to parse it in the narrowest sense that because it was in season, the Lakers were above the cap at that moment, but we all know that's not what he meant. And the fact is that the Lakers were under the cap by over 20 million before the new front office did anything to the cap space. And there were several simple ways to get to a max slot. So factually, the team was not capped out, and factually, it had one max flexibility (just as the current team has two max flexibility).

He also said they had no picks. That part is again narrowly true to some degree because the lottery hadn't happened yet, and while the previous front office had beggun tanking, we don't know exactly what the outcome would be, although if they had lost that pick they would have their own pick this year. It is also narrowly true because the Lou Williams trade hadn't happened yet, and they fired Mitch while he was negotiating it, and took a slightly worse deal than than one of his options (his HOU deal vs the Utah deal), resulting in having an additional seven million on the cap because they took back a player with an additional year on his deal. We can't know what M<itch would have done for sure, but it's a bit disingenuous to take one of the deals he had set up and then claim that as your pick and that he left none.

The pick from the DLO trade is entirely theirs, as is the pick from the Clarkson trade, but again, since they fired Mitch, you can't just assume he makes zero moves going forward if they hadn't.


The upshot is that they did very well. They added picks, opened more cap space, drafted as well as you can, and their team is coming together well. They can stand on what they did with a ot of pride, and should. No need to exaggerate and prevaricate to do it.


This says in 2016-2017 when Magic took over the Lakers were committed to 94Million in Salary...so I have no idea where that 20 Magic Million is that you speak of.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/salary-cap-history.html

As to the draft picks we literally had no picks in 2017 or 2018 save for the luck of the lotto bells. That's an indisputable fact. After the Lou Trade we get 1 that we then turned into 2 (Hart and TBryant). After the MozDLo trade we get #27 which becomes Kuz and Brooke which is now cap space. We then trade JC and Nance and get another 1st and another expiring. All while the team continues to improve.

That is a monumental amount of dealing coming from a FO in 1 year to acquire 6 total draft picks for 2 quality players and 1 with potential to be the best of the bunch...and to offload 2 major contracts in the process rather than having to give up picks to clear cap space is something most of us thought impossible.

We are literally a stretch provision away from clearing the 2 worst contracts in franchise history and acquiring 6 quality picks in the process. The only thing Jim and Mitch had to do with that is creating the CF in the 1st place.

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to believe...but no one has a right to change facts to fit a biased narrative...unless you support the current guy in the WH.


Ok, hereís a math question in story form. If you trade dlo and mozgov for a guy who makes more money than they do combined for the coming season (the savings comes when he expires in 2018), and you still have the money to sign kcp for that large one year deal without having to trade anyone else, where do you suppose that cap room came from? That was the whole point. Rob was misrepresenting their starting point. He doesnít have to. They have a lot of accomplishments.

Btw, if they donít have a pick in 17, then by rule they have one in 18.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
I liked Magic and Rob's interview, as well as Luke's.

They made it very clear they expect Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram to dedicate themselves to strength conditioning in the same manner Julius Randle did last summer. That's exactly what I wanted to hear from them.

LaVar and BBB had all these plans for Lonzo as soon as summer hits. Rap. Lithuania. High priced autographs. BBB branded shoes. Lobby for little brother. Play exhibition games promoted by Lavar. One comment slid out from Lonzo that I found very telling; to paraphrase - he's free to choose between his future as a superstar and all the goodies that come from his fame, but if he doesn't choose the former, the latter goes away.
TMMB,

Very nice. This is one of those situations in which the Lakers need to separate Lonzo from LaVar.
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