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BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20)
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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Wow. 3 lottery picks basically. Awesome.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Why do y'all keep using the age factor? They are BOTH rookies. The BOTh came in the league at the same time. Age doesn't mean jack. |
Age means a LOT in terms of player development and projections. Kuz is further along developmentally at this time and Tatum is still the better prospect using analytics...Tatum at 23 will likely be better than Rudy Gay at his best, so we're talking like 21 to 24 ppg. Kuz might get there too, but it will be at age 24 to 26 if ever.
That being said...no way do I trade Kuz for Tatum because something tells me Kuz is going to be an outlier along the lines of Draymond Green in terms of team impact, but without the histrionics if he can keep himself focused in a damn hard city to do just that. |
Age means a lot depending on athletic levels and what basketball skills are innate within the player.
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers...  
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Why do y'all keep using the age factor? They are BOTH rookies. The BOTh came in the league at the same time. Age doesn't mean jack. |
Age means a LOT in terms of player development and projections. Kuz is further along developmentally at this time and Tatum is still the better prospect using analytics...Tatum at 23 will likely be better than Rudy Gay at his best, so we're talking like 21 to 24 ppg. Kuz might get there too, but it will be at age 24 to 26 if ever.
That being said...no way do I trade Kuz for Tatum because something tells me Kuz is going to be an outlier along the lines of Draymond Green in terms of team impact, but without the histrionics if he can keep himself focused in a damn hard city to do just that. |
Age means a lot depending on athletic levels and what basketball skills are innate within the player. |
I thought that was implicit to the discussion at hand in comparison of these 2 specific and comparable players...
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
Right?!
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | USA today lists a re-draft:
1. Philadelphia 76ers – Jayson Tatum (actual selection: 3)
2. Los Angeles Lakers – Donovan Mitchell (actual selection: 13)
3. Boston Celtics – Lauri Markkanen (actual selection: 7)
4. Phoenix Suns – Lonzo Ball (actual selection: 2)
5. Sacramento Kings – Markelle Fultz (actual selection: 1)
6. Orlando Magic – Dennis Smith Jr. (actual selection: 9)
7. Chicago Bulls – Kyle Kuzma (actual selection: 27)
8. New York Knicks – Josh Jackson (actual selection: 4)
9. Dallas Mavericks – De’Aaron Fox (actual selection: 5)
10. Portland Trailblazers – Jonathan Isaac (actual selection: 6)
11. Charlotte Hornets – John Collins (actual selection: 19)
12. Detroit Pistons – Josh Hart (actual selection: 30)
13. Utah Jazz – Jarrett Allen (actual selection: 22)
14. Miami Heat – Bam Adebayo (actual selection: 14)
https://thebiglead.com/2018/04/11/re-draft-of-the-2017-nba-lottery-picks/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5acf191104d30146d952d509&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Lauri too high. I have lonzo at 3 but Kuzma and Hart look about right. In any case, talk about getting some steals. We literally had 3 lottery picks last year. |
Why these articles need to consistently undervalue Lonzo's impact on pace, ball movement, defense, and team unity is beyond me. Listening to Magic and Rob has me convinced they see him as the best player in the draft.
Love what Mitchell and Tatum did on playoff teams...but I wouldn't trade Zo for anyone in this class straight up.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Don't worry. It's a marathon. I think Lonzo's value will become more apparent as he matures physically.
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CalisFinest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Only player you could talk me into taking over Zo is Mitchell. Everyone else just doesn't impact as much as Zo does imo. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
Right?! |
If he just gets consistent and stays a 16/7 player at PF forever, he's got a 12 year career. That's assuming ZERO improvement and he's flashed other things.
I don't get it.
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm hopeful about Lonzo's ceiling. I think he was the right pick at that spot. |
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deal
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | USA today lists a re-draft:
1. Philadelphia 76ers – Jayson Tatum (actual selection: 3)
2. Los Angeles Lakers – Donovan Mitchell (actual selection: 13)
3. Boston Celtics – Lauri Markkanen (actual selection: 7)
4. Phoenix Suns – Lonzo Ball (actual selection: 2)
5. Sacramento Kings – Markelle Fultz (actual selection: 1)
6. Orlando Magic – Dennis Smith Jr. (actual selection: 9)
7. Chicago Bulls – Kyle Kuzma (actual selection: 27)
8. New York Knicks – Josh Jackson (actual selection: 4)
9. Dallas Mavericks – De’Aaron Fox (actual selection: 5)
10. Portland Trailblazers – Jonathan Isaac (actual selection: 6)
11. Charlotte Hornets – John Collins (actual selection: 19)
12. Detroit Pistons – Josh Hart (actual selection: 30)
13. Utah Jazz – Jarrett Allen (actual selection: 22)
14. Miami Heat – Bam Adebayo (actual selection: 14)
https://thebiglead.com/2018/04/11/re-draft-of-the-2017-nba-lottery-picks/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5acf191104d30146d952d509&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Lauri too high. I have lonzo at 3 but Kuzma and Hart look about right. In any case, talk about getting some steals. We literally had 3 lottery picks last year. |
Your right, no matter how you slice it, Lakers FO did extremely well...
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
Right?! |
If he just gets consistent and stays a 16/7 player at PF forever, he's got a 12 year career. That's assuming ZERO improvement and he's flashed other things.
I don't get it. |
You know....the only argument that really works outside of the unmentionable 'i' word is that the kid gets consumed by the LA Life and stops putting in that work, but I just don't see that in him at all.
Looks like he likes the LA lady, but won't even consider letting that derail his larger dreams.
I think we all agree he's going to put in the work...it's virtually impossible for him not to improve with the work ethic he has to go with his existing skill set, all the resources he has access to, and the mentorship of Kobe.
Yeah bruh...I don't get it either.
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Annihilator
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| textbook wrote: | USA today lists a re-draft:
4. Phoenix Suns – Lonzo Ball (actual selection: 2)
7. Chicago Bulls – Kyle Kuzma (actual selection: 27)
12. Detroit Pistons – Josh Hart (actual selection: 30)
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Nice. I expect that all will improve significantly over the summer.
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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Mitchell bonafide star barring any serious injury. Lonzo, lets see him make a jumpshot first before coming to any conclusion. Mitchell gives you results. Lonzo gives you hopes and dreams. That's what Lakers fans like to do. Every year, they hope and dream that one day one of their prospects will turn out to be a star. It's the same thing every year.
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| The fact that USA Today lists 3 of our draft picks as picks from 1-14 shows how well the front office did over the summer. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | I think you’re making up stuff that simply isn’t true at this point. Saying they avoided putting him in lineups with bad players and catered to him etc. I simply think that’s not true. Not sure why they would announce the crazy expectations they had for him if they wanted to protect him. I’m not hung up on the word protect, that’s just a word you often use in your claims about Lonzo being put in protected situation after protected situation. Claims that aren’t factual. Just like UCLA wasn’t hiding him defensively, the Lakers haven’t been catering to Lonzo. |
Going forward, if you want to debate...argue...disagree, thats all good....but do not come at me with a claim of being dishonest or "making up stuff" unless you are offering support to the claim. Guy, I do not make stuff up....I may have a different opinion....and my opinions may even ultimately be proven wrong...but that is a long way from being dishonest.
I should not have wasted my time looking more into my claim.....but after your post, decided to look over the data....and it is clear that Luke kept Ball's minutes on the court surrounded by the best talent more than any other key player on the roster.....just from 10,000 feet, the trend is on display.....
Played at least 15 games & Averaged at least 10 MPG together..
Ball - KCP, Kuzma, Nance, Lopez, Ingram, Randle
Ingram - KCP, Ball, Lopez, Randle, Kuzma, Nance, Hart, Clarkson, Ennis
KCP - Ball, Ingram, Lopez, Kuzma, Randle, Thomas, Nance, Hart, Clarkson
Lopez - Ball, KCP, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Kuzma, Hart, Thomas
Kuzma - Ball, KCP, Thomas, Ingram, Clarkson, Randle, Hart, Lopez, Nance, Caruso
Randle - KCP, Lopez, Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Thomas, Hart, Clarkson
Also, in regards to you bringing back up Ball being "protected" on defense @ UCLA. I never said he was protected.....I said they would try to hide him in defensive schemes through cross matching as much as possible....similar to what every draft prospect scouting report also claimed about him coming out of college. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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The only reason I've ever cared about what the national media thinks of our team is in regards to how it affects the perception of free agents and, thus, our ability to recruit them to come to our team. I think we've finally reached a place where we are past that. Regardless, the difference between Ball at 2 v. 4 in these rankings doesn't really matter, especially when you consider how that's offset by how well Kuzma and Hart have performed (and well beyond expectations).
Its clear we are a team on the rise. Once we get those free agents in, what other people think of us won't matter at all to me. It won't be about the future or projections any longer. At that point, wins and losses will speak for themselves.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | I think you’re making up stuff that simply isn’t true at this point. Saying they avoided putting him in lineups with bad players and catered to him etc. I simply think that’s not true. Not sure why they would announce the crazy expectations they had for him if they wanted to protect him. I’m not hung up on the word protect, that’s just a word you often use in your claims about Lonzo being put in protected situation after protected situation. Claims that aren’t factual. Just like UCLA wasn’t hiding him defensively, the Lakers haven’t been catering to Lonzo. |
Going forward, if you want to debate...argue...disagree, thats all good....but do not come at me with a claim of being dishonest or "making up stuff" unless you are offering support to the claim. Guy, I do not make stuff up....I may have a different opinion....and my opinions may even ultimately be proven wrong...but that is a long way from being dishonest.
I should not have wasted my time looking more into my claim.....but after your post, decided to look over the data....and it is clear that Luke kept Ball's minutes on the court surrounded by the best talent more than any other key player on the roster.....just from 10,000 feet, the trend is on display.....
Played at least 15 games & Averaged at least 10 MPG together..
Ball - KCP, Kuzma, Nance, Lopez, Ingram, Randle
Ingram - KCP, Ball, Lopez, Randle, Kuzma, Nance, Hart, Clarkson, Ennis
KCP - Ball, Ingram, Lopez, Kuzma, Randle, Thomas, Nance, Hart, Clarkson
Lopez - Ball, KCP, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Kuzma, Hart, Thomas
Kuzma - Ball, KCP, Thomas, Ingram, Clarkson, Randle, Hart, Lopez, Nance, Caruso
Randle - KCP, Lopez, Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Thomas, Hart, Clarkson
Also, in regards to you bringing back up Ball being "protected" on defense @ UCLA. I never said he was protected.....I said they would try to hide him in defensive schemes through cross matching as much as possible....similar to what every draft prospect scouting report also claimed about him coming out of college. |
I stand by what I said but I apologize if you took it offensively. I just think you’re making something up to discredit him. |
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | textbook wrote: | USA today lists a re-draft:
1. Philadelphia 76ers – Jayson Tatum (actual selection: 3)
2. Los Angeles Lakers – Donovan Mitchell (actual selection: 13)
3. Boston Celtics – Lauri Markkanen (actual selection: 7)
4. Phoenix Suns – Lonzo Ball (actual selection: 2)
5. Sacramento Kings – Markelle Fultz (actual selection: 1)
6. Orlando Magic – Dennis Smith Jr. (actual selection: 9)
7. Chicago Bulls – Kyle Kuzma (actual selection: 27)
8. New York Knicks – Josh Jackson (actual selection: 4)
9. Dallas Mavericks – De’Aaron Fox (actual selection: 5)
10. Portland Trailblazers – Jonathan Isaac (actual selection: 6)
11. Charlotte Hornets – John Collins (actual selection: 19)
12. Detroit Pistons – Josh Hart (actual selection: 30)
13. Utah Jazz – Jarrett Allen (actual selection: 22)
14. Miami Heat – Bam Adebayo (actual selection: 14)
https://thebiglead.com/2018/04/11/re-draft-of-the-2017-nba-lottery-picks/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5acf191104d30146d952d509&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Lauri too high. I have lonzo at 3 but Kuzma and Hart look about right. In any case, talk about getting some steals. We literally had 3 lottery picks last year. |
Why these articles need to consistently undervalue Lonzo's impact on pace, ball movement, defense, and team unity is beyond me. Listening to Magic and Rob has me convinced they see him as the best player in the draft.
Love what Mitchell and Tatum did on playoff teams...but I wouldn't trade Zo for anyone in this class straight up. |
So if we take the redraft as the correct draft positions:
it is as if we traded Dlo, Mozgov, the 2nd pick and 28th pick
for...
4th pick (Lonzo), 7th pick (Kuz), 12th pick (Hart) and Brook Lopez as a one year rental at center.
Even if i have known how Mitchell and Tatum would have performed in the nba, I can live with our actual decision. Even if we had drafted lonzo too high - like the media says- its balanced by both Kuz and Hart performing wildly better than expected. |
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PlantedTanks
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | Harlemlakerfan wrote: | | Why do y'all keep using the age factor? They are BOTH rookies. The BOTh came in the league at the same time. Age doesn't mean jack. |
Age means a LOT in terms of player development and projections. Kuz is further along developmentally at this time and Tatum is still the better prospect using analytics...Tatum at 23 will likely be better than Rudy Gay at his best, so we're talking like 21 to 24 ppg. Kuz might get there too, but it will be at age 24 to 26 if ever.
That being said...no way do I trade Kuz for Tatum because something tells me Kuz is going to be an outlier along the lines of Draymond Green in terms of team impact, but without the histrionics if he can keep himself focused in a damn hard city to do just that. |
Given the construction of the Celtics I don't see Tatum averaging 21+ points per game at 23. Kyrie, Hayward, Brown will all require their touches unless a trade is made or Kyrie does not resign.
However I would trade Kuz for Tatum. One thing exceptional about Tatum (besides his shooting) is his ability to get his own shot. Kuz is versatile but I do not see him being exceptional at creating for himself. |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
I like Kyle Kuzma. I like all our rookies. That was a comment for people salivating for others we could have had instead of Lonzo. |
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
I like Kyle Kuzma. I like all our rookies. That was a comment for people salivating for others we could have had instead of Lonzo. |
Agree with all the quoted comments. Players mature at different times, just because a player is good right out of the gates, does not mean he's 100% going to be an all star. I think our own Randle is a good example of this. He was injured his whole first year, showed flashes but wasn't really anything special the next 2, then really came into his own this year. It's just too early to tell.
I would like to add that we really don't have any idea how Tatum or Mitchell would have fared had they been drafted to the lakers. Especially with players that young, coaching style, how they're utilised + team chemistry would make a difference, perhaps even a significant difference. Oladipo looked like a nice player but nothing special on the thunder and he has really come to his own on the Pacers. Maybe it was playing next to Westbrook, maybe instead it was how the previous coaching staff were using him, I don't know. I just know he seems like a different player after he switched teams. |
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deal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
I like Kyle Kuzma. I like all our rookies. That was a comment for people salivating for others we could have had instead of Lonzo. |
It's buyers remorse, we all get it at times. We did more than fine but could have done better if we had nailed one of the top two players. We didn't we move on...
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pio2u
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | The fact that USA Today lists 3 of our draft picks as picks from 1-14 shows how well the front office did over the summer. |
I'm impressed.  |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| deal wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
I like Kyle Kuzma. I like all our rookies. That was a comment for people salivating for others we could have had instead of Lonzo. |
It's buyers remorse, we all get it at times. We did more than fine but could have done better if we had nailed one of the top two players. We didn't we move on... |
We did nail one of the top two players in the draft. |
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